That awkward radio transition

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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I make it a habit to get FF whenever I go up.
This weekend, I got it from Ground. They told me they would get FF setup from ABC to XYZ So I had a squawk code from the beginning.

Tower said turn to a heading of 070 then call departure on 124.2

I dialed the frequency and said "Departure, 546PC"
Then they came back "546PC, Go Ahead"

Wasn't sure what they wanted, so I re-requested flight following.

I feel like transitioning is always a little awkward.
This is the conversation I have when I change frequencies:

"Approach N546PC"
"6PC Altimeter 3018"
"3018 6PC"

Is any more or less expected?
and what about the "Go Ahead"?
 
When I get handed off to departure, i say something like "XYZ departure, N546PC climbing through 1700 for 3 heading 270."

they usually reply "6PC radar contact, then they may give me additional route or altitude clearance.

When they heard your call, I don't think they understood if you had a question, request, radio check, other?
 
"Departure, 546PC with you climbing through 300 for 5500, would like advisories" I usually tap the 'ident' at the same time.
 
Badger said:
When I get handed off to departure, i say something like "XYZ departure, N546PC climbing through 1700 for 3 heading 270."

they usually reply "6PC radar contact, then they may give me additional route or altitude clearance.

When they heard your call, I don't think they understood if you had a question, request, radio check, other?
Click to expand...
This. Although if Ground had already coordinated with Approach, I think they would know already that he wanted FF
 
Henning said:
"Departure, 546PC with you climbing through 300 for 5500, would like advisories" I usually tap the 'ident' at the same time.
Click to expand...

No, and No.

I flip the altitudes as well.

"Departure 546PC, three hundred climbing five thousand five hundred."

I never use the words "to" and "for" whenever possible.
because you end up with "four (for) five thousand five hundred" or "two (to) five thousand five hundred."

I've heard a couple of back and forth transmissions with confusion between people saying to/two and for/four with altitudes, and ATC asking if they were climbing to 4000 or climbing 24000.
 
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First post here, but had to register to say ABSOLUTELY DO NOT tap IDENT when switching frequencies. Really bad advice there.
 
Henning said:
"Departure, 546PC with you climbing through 300 for 5500, would like advisories" I usually tap the 'ident' at the same time.
Click to expand...

Just to add to Ed's "no" list - current recommendation is to not use the word "for" when reporting altitude changes - 300 climbing 5500 is recommended phrasing
 
Clark1961 said:
Just to add to Ed's "no" list - current recommendation is to not use the word "for" when reporting altitude changes - 300 climbing 5500 is recommended phrasing
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Ha, I was editing to say that when you posted.
 
Insane said:
First post here, but had to register to say ABSOLUTELY DO NOT tap IDENT when switching frequencies. Really bad advice there.
Click to expand...

can you explain why?
I don't 'ident' unless asked, but I'd like to hear your reasoning,
thanks
 
Badger said:
can you explain why?
I don't 'ident' unless asked, but I'd like to hear your reasoning,
thanks
Click to expand...

Because ATC might be asking someone else to ident on another frequency. GRR has 128.4 and 124.6 but they all see the same scope. What happnens when you are on 128.4 and the 124.6 controller asks someone to ident, and your block flashes on his screen? ONLY ident when requested/instructed.
 
Damn, should have caught Henning's sarcasm since he included "with you" and "for"
 
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EdFred said:
Because ATC might be asking someone else to ident on another frequency. GRR has 128.4 and 124.6 but they all see the same scope. What happnens when you are on 128.4 and the 124.6 controller asks someone to ident, and your block flashes on his screen? ONLY ident when requested/instructed.
Click to expand...

makes sense, thanks
 
Henning said:
"Departure, 546PC with you climbing through 300 for 5500, would like advisories"
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If you were (as the OP was) handed off to Departure by Tower, there's no need for "would like advisories". And there is never any reason to say "with you" as part of an initial call-up.

I usually tap the 'ident' at the same time.
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Hitting the IDENT without being told is contrary to FAA guidance.
AIM said:
d. Transponder IDENT Feature
1. The transponder must be operated only as specified by ATC. Activate the “IDENT” feature only upon request of the ATC controller.
Click to expand...
 
"(facility name) departure, N546PC heading 070, leaving 500, climbing to maintain 5,500."

Don't hit ident unless ATC tells you to do it. Most likely they established radar contact on you within 1 mile off the departure end anyway. Identing will only annoy them.

Report in with your altitude so they can verify your Mode C just in case they weren't able to verify it on the ground.

The reason the departure controller just said "go ahead" was either your check in sounded like a question or they were just lazy and didn't want to say "N546PC, radar contact, resume own navigation direct XYZ."
 
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Ron Levy said:
If you were (as the OP was) handed off to Departure by Tower, there's no need for "would like advisories". And there is never any reason to say "with you" as part of an initial call-up.

Hitting the IDENT without being told is contrary to FAA guidance.
Click to expand...

Just to recap (confirm) When the OP switched to departure he should have said?
 
tecprotb said:
Just to recap (confirm) When the OP switched to departure he should have said?
Click to expand...

Velocity173 said:
"(facility name) departure, N546PC heading 070, leaving 500, climbing to maintain 5,500."

Don't hit ident unless ATC tells you to do it. Most likely they established radar contact on you within 1 mile off the departure end anyway. Identing will only annoy them.

Report in with your altitude so they can verify your Mode C just in case they weren't able to verify it on the ground.

The reason the departure controller just said "go ahead" was either your check in sounded like a question or they were just lazy and didn't want to say "N546PC, radar contact, resume own navigation direct XYZ."
Click to expand...


this.
 
so to clarify, the response to "Go ahead"

should have been: "N546PC heading 070, leaving 500, climbing to maintain 5,500"

rather than re requesting flight following?
 
When departing an airport expecting radar flight following, initially check on departure with your altitude leaving and altitude climbing to. The additional techniques mentioned here are very good operating practices. The departure controller should radar identify the departure on initial contact whether IFR or VFR on flight following.


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SixPapaCharlie said:
so to clarify, the response to "Go ahead"

should have been: "N546PC heading 070, leaving 500, climbing to maintain 5,500"

rather than re requesting flight following?
Click to expand...

You said you contacted ground and that they would get flight following for you. If they did then they coordinated with departure / approach. That's why you got that 070 heading. Either it's a local noise abatement proceedures or most likely departure has something in your way. Not familiar with your field so I don't know.

At any rate, ground should have coordinated your flight with departure so they should already know you're coming. I take it they assigned you a code on the ground? That's because the ground controller, clearance delivery or a tower flight data guy typed you into the NAS computer.

So, if you checked in the format you gave and the departure controller said go ahead, either no coordination was done with them, they thought you were asking a question or they were lazy and didn't want to say "N546PC, radar contact resume own navigation direct XYZ."
 
On departure Tampa approach no. Off Sarasota leaving 500 ft assigned heading.
 
That sounds like what could have happened.


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SixPapaCharlie said:
That seems like a smart thing to do. I will add this to my routine. Thanks.
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Much as I admire Henning, I don't go along with the idea of hitting ident without being asked to do so by ATC...AIM4-1-20(d). This exchange is eerily related to the idea of learning proper radio phraseology by listening to others instead of going to the source documents...what you hear might sound good, but it is incorrect. (Sorry, Henning.)

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Much as I admire Henning, I don't go along with the idea of hitting ident without being asked to do so by ATC...AIM4-1-20(d). This exchange is eerily related to the idea of learning proper radio phraseology by listening to others instead of going to the source documents...what you hear might sound good, but it is incorrect. (Sorry, Henning.)

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...


I think Henning was being Henning...
I believe his response was intended to be a wiseass response.

I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
 
When using Flight Following from Tyler KTYR to Austin KAUS. Along the route I am handed off from Dallas to Waco and Waco to Houston. Every time Houston asks me where am I going today? I do this route a lot so now I just tell them where I am heading when I am handed off to them.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
so to clarify, the response to "Go ahead"

should have been: "N546PC heading 070, leaving 500, climbing to maintain 5,500"

rather than re requesting flight following?
Click to expand...
At that point, yes, but it should never have gone that many transmissions. If done right, the first transmission after switching freq's would have been "(facility name) departure, N546PC heading 070, leaving 500, climbing to maintain 5,500." ATC's reply would have been something like "N546PC, roger, ident," followed by something like "N546PC, radar contact." And that would be it until ATC had traffic information or some other instruction to give.
 
Scott@KTYR said:
When using Flight Following from Tyler KTYR to Austin KAUS. Along the route I am handed off from Dallas to Waco and Waco to Houston. Every time Houston asks me where am I going today? I do this route a lot so now I just tell them where I am heading when I am handed off to them.
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When you're handed from one TRACON or Center to another under VFR, the destination is often not transferred, so they ask first thing. Perhaps one of the ATC types can explain why that is, but I know for sure that it is not abnormal for that to happen.
 
Ron Levy said:
When you're handed from one TRACON or Center to another under VFR, the destination is often not transferred, so they ask first thing. Perhaps one of the ATC types can explain why that is, but I know for sure that it is not abnormal for that to happen.
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I'm not ATC, but have received several explanations from them:

1. Some smaller fields aren't in the database for departure/ground controllers to enter your destination prior to your ATC hand off.
2. If on a local squawk code, destination might not transfer
3. If officially in "the big box" (whatever that means), the destination is listed through ATC hand offs and TO approach (dependent on squawk code assigned).
 
They don't have radar contact established until you tell them what altitude you are at so they can confirm it with mode C. As pointed out.

Potomac Approach Navion 5327K 800 Climbing 6000

is what they need to hear IFR or VFR though around here (other than SFRA/FRZ departures) you don't tend to get towers who can get FF pre arranged (it seems to be some quirk to the tracon involved) the towers will frequently give you a frequency change as soon as you're off (even within the class D) however.
 
If the flight plan initiated from ERAM there is a chance it will transfer to an approach control ARTS system. The two systems are not compatible and VFR flight plans may not talk to each other. That being said, it's not a huge issue to radar identify someone and tag them up on ARTS.

As for radar identification, Mode C verification is not necessary, however in order to provide automated vertical separation, the controller has to verify Mode C readout. If checking on with a new facility, the first sector in the new facility must verify Mode C. Intra facility that verification is not required, but it is good practice to always initially check on with the altitude leaving and the altitude climbing to. Or present altitude if in level flight.


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SixPapaCharlie said:
I make it a habit to get FF whenever I go up.
This weekend, I got it from Ground. They told me they would get FF setup from ABC to XYZ So I had a squawk code from the beginning.

Tower said turn to a heading of 070 then call departure on 124.2

I dialed the frequency and said "Departure, 546PC"
Then they came back "546PC, Go Ahead"

Wasn't sure what they wanted, so I re-requested flight following.

I feel like transitioning is always a little awkward.
This is the conversation I have when I change frequencies:

"Approach N546PC"
"6PC Altimeter 3018"
"3018 6PC"

Is any more or less expected?
and what about the "Go Ahead"?
Click to expand...

They were probably expecting a report of the altitude you were climbing through.
 
roncachamp said:
They were probably expecting a report of the altitude you were climbing through.
Click to expand...

That was my thought as well.

When I ask Ground for flight following and get a frequency change, my contact is:

"NorCal Approach Skyhawk 123XY at 1000 climbing restricted below 1500." (the restriction is unlikely to apply to you, but it's common for southbound departures where I fly, due to a Class C shelf while in contact with an underlying class D). The response is almost always "radar contact at XXXX altitude your discretion."
 
That's why I prefer to file IFR (especially out of large airports). The procedures are well established and expectations on both sides are clearer.
 
dans2992 said:
That's why I prefer to file IFR (especially out of large airports). The procedures are well established and expectations on both sides are clearer.
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Its clear for VFR as well. I think the OP caught the controller off guard. He didn't know what the request was because the OP didn't ask for anything. The proper way to call like others have said was to give your current altitude and your final altitude request
 
... he flies with the ident button constantly pushed... he is: the most interesting pilot in the world.
 
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