Talk me out of renewing my AOPA membership

OneCharlieTango said:
How are the membership numbers as a percentage of GA pilots?
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If you trust the numbers from the internet 220k members roughly 750k pilots in the us
OneCharlieTango said:
I used to get a hat by renewing at Oshkosh every year. Word is hardly anyone gives hats away at OSH anymore because the people who SELL hats there complained that the giveaways were hurting their business. EAA supposedly relented and asked exhibitors to stop giving hats away. Apocryphal story, but believable.

So take that, you who think EAA is somehow above the fray of political filth.
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Oh, they aren't the amount of commercialization at Airventure is telling. It's lost some of it's grass-roots as well, but still the best GA group IMHO. As a volunteer, the amount they have reduced as give-aways to volunteer at this event has dropped drastically since it left the family.

I sat in on the meet FAA event this year and was a bit shocked at the EAA president's comments ahead of the Q&A portion that said. If you are going to through potshots at either of us with your questions, I'm going to kick you out. That is a hell of a thing to say to your membership. Is the intent of his comments wrong? No, but there was a much better way of saying be respectful we are glad the FAA Administrator is here. (Although personally he was another Washington suit that spent an hour saying absolutely nothing.
 
Dave Anderson said:
I sat in on the meet FAA event this year and was a bit shocked at the EAA president's comments ahead of the Q&A portion that said. If you are going to through potshots at either of us with your questions, I'm going to kick you out.
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I can understand the need to be blunt around pilots.
 
Hector Parra said:
Same sins as their Canadian cousin (COPA). They have way more cash than what they can manage wisely.
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and look how successful COPA was at avoiding user fees.

oh wait.

sorry

(and, to be clear, I really don't mean to be mean to our Canadian friends, just poking fun at the people who think AOPA has been essential at avoiding user fees...)
 
Maybe they need that amount of cash to be able to communicate and publicize what they think they have accomplished. It's down to the right idea and community, poor execution, and lost of why they exist.
 
I'd sure like to see them get a lot more confrontational with the FAA. The Basic Med versus III Class took decades - the III Class was always nonsensical, a revenue generator for AMEs and jobs for OK city. When YEARS pass with no in-flight incapacitation preventable by a III Class . . .follow the money trail and bureaucratic power grab. I guess it did keep AMEs in the fold for doing II Class medicals - like emission inspections on cars less than 10 years old - just an exercise in funding the testing stations. AOPA has enough in the war chest to get feisty in Fed courts and they should.

But, after the above rant, AOPA is the one lobbying voice we have. . .
 
It's an important organization. On the average AOPA does a great deal for GA, in response for a pretty low ask which includes a nice magazine subscription and a couple of perks. I would encourage anyone debating the "investment" to try to think big picture, rather than "what's in it for me."
 
Ryan F. said:
It's an important organization. On the average AOPA does a great deal for GA, in response for a pretty low ask which includes a nice magazine subscription and a couple of perks. I would encourage anyone debating the "investment" to try to think big picture, rather than "what's in it for me."
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In the big picture, they have all the money they need to do what they say they will do without any membership dues.
 
Sundancer said:
- the III Class was always nonsensical, a revenue generator for AMEs and jobs for OK city.
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The one AME I used for years did it at almost as a freebie... He did the Third Class exams one day a week, and used it as an excuse to talk airplanes...

Hardly a revenue generator for AMEs... I can't speak for the hoards of people at OK city.
 
Bob Noel said:
The one AME I used for years did it at almost as a freebie... He did the Third Class exams one day a week, and used it as an excuse to talk airplanes...

Hardly a revenue generator for AMEs... I can't speak for the hoards of people at OK city.
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Right? I can't imagine that the $100 for a physical/eye exam and general talk about aircraft was really paying the bills at the local AME's office, lol.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Right? I can't imagine that the $100 for a physical/eye exam and general talk about aircraft was really paying the bills at the local AME's office, lol.
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LOL! $100? Did you ever get a III Class in Metro DC area? But yeah, a single III Class isn't money for a doctor, nor does the very occasional exam bring much revenue. My point was the more numerous III Class exams might have helped keep active AMEs, the ones doing significant numbers, in the fold so they would be around for the II Class exams.
 
Sundancer said:
LOL! $100? Did you ever get a III Class in Metro DC area? But yeah, a single III Class isn't money for a doctor, nor does the very occasional exam bring much revenue. My point was the more numerous III Class exams might have helped keep active AMEs, the ones doing significant numbers, in the fold so they would be around for the II Class exams.
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Sorry, my Class 3 is done here in OkieLand, anywhere near the DC beltway gives me hives. Same guy, rate hasn't changed since 2008. Just renewed mine a month ago, lol.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
In the big picture, they have all the money they need to do what they say they will do without any membership dues.
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Really? You believe the organization can run in perpetuity in pursuit of their goals, without accepting another dime in membership dues?
 
Sundancer said:
I'd sure like to see them get a lot more confrontational with the FAA. The Basic Med versus III Class took decades - the III Class was always nonsensical, a revenue generator for AMEs and jobs for OK city. When YEARS pass with no in-flight incapacitation preventable by a III Class . . .follow the money trail and bureaucratic power grab. I guess it did keep AMEs in the fold for doing II Class medicals - like emission inspections on cars less than 10 years old - just an exercise in funding the testing stations. AOPA has enough in the war chest to get feisty in Fed courts and they should.

But, after the above rant, AOPA is the one lobbying voice we have. . .
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If they are inefficient does it matter? I 1000% agree with what you state above, thinks like medical, mosiac and others have a major impact on getting more pilots in the left seat.
 
Ryan F. said:
Really? You believe the organization can run in perpetuity in pursuit of their goals, without accepting another dime in membership dues?
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Going through their financials, they could at least last a very long time without dues, with appropriate cost-cutting.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Going through their financials, they could at least last a very long time without dues, with appropriate cost-cutting.
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Hmm. I'm not sure you're understanding their financial position correctly. Regardless - we agree to disagree. In my opinion they are operating appropriately for an organization of their size with those types of objectives.
 
Martin Pauly said:
As someone who learned to fly abroad, I can tell you (and you can easily verify) that the United States is paradise on earth for light general aviation. I challenge you to find any other country where GA flying is as affordable and practical as here.

We must not take this for granted. Lots of people want to turn our airports into residential or commercial real estate and eliminate the noise. AOPA is the strongest and most effective force for GA we have. Your AOPA membership is a screaming deal, not for the magazine but for preserving your freedom to fly. Don’t believe me? Look across the boarder and then report back.

- Martin
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I agree. Developers are continually pressuring Santa Clara County (CA) Board of Supervisors to close KRHV (Reid Hillview) so they can put up another housing development. Young Eagles Day there tries to both kindle enthusiasm for flight and wake up the general population to the threat of housing development. I tell the ones that ask "Politicians never see the light until they feel the heat!"
 
Half Fast said:
All this squabbling over AOPA pros and cons is pointless. The OP specifically asked us to talk him out of renewing.

@Jim K , every time someone renews an AOPA membership, God feeds a kitten to an alligator.
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I did not know that. I'm not that fond of cats, so I may have to reconsider my decision to drop AOPA membership.
 
AOPA Foundation hits me up periodically for donations. Until they show me who they give money to, no way. I will not support anyone who opposes my Civil Rights. I've been a member of AOPA for over 20 years and have 2 hats to show for it, the newest was years ago. Maybe I need to stop the auto renew and see if that helps get a new one.

EAA, on the other hand, has my lifetime membership. I need to go to Oshkosh some year. I've been there once, but that was before I was a pilot and it was not during Airventure.

As far are Basic Med goes, it has been a benefit to me. My AME joined the dark side (the FAA) the same time as my last 3rd class expired. My PCP did DOT medicals and had no problem doing a Basic Med physical. Did my second one last year. I'll keep my AOPA membership but not for the magazine.

Flying Magazine lost me as a subscriber a number of years ago. Nothing for me, other than a magazine that did not cater to small airplane pilots. If you don't burn Jet A in large quantities they really don't speak for you or have articles that speak to you. either.
 
Sundancer said:
I'd sure like to see them get a lot more confrontational with the FAA. The Basic Med versus III Class took decades - the III Class was always nonsensical, a revenue generator for AMEs and jobs for OK city. When YEARS pass with no in-flight incapacitation preventable by a III Class . . .follow the money trail and bureaucratic power grab. I guess it did keep AMEs in the fold for doing II Class medicals - like emission inspections on cars less than 10 years old - just an exercise in funding the testing stations. AOPA has enough in the war chest to get feisty in Fed courts and they should.

But, after the above rant, AOPA is the one lobbying voice we have. . .
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Realize that the AMEs were probably lobbying to prevent Basic Med.

There is always 2 or 3 or 4 sides to everything.

And NOTHING happens in the Government quickly.

And how would you use that money to "get feisty?"

And getting too feisty to a Fed tends to get them to start ignoring you.
 
Pinecone said:
Realize that the AMEs were probably lobbying to prevent Basic Med.

There is always 2 or 3 or 4 sides to everything.

And NOTHING happens in the Government quickly.

And how would you use that money to "get feisty?"

And getting too feisty to a Fed tends to get them to start ignoring you.
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I think we're saying kinda the same thing about the AMEs -

The FAA is gummint - they can't afford to ignore anyone with a few congress critters in tow, or an administrative law judge telling them they've overstepped. That's how to use some of the money to get feisty - pick a fight that matters, not the trivial stuff, make a lot of noise, bother the courts, press for legislation the FAA won't like, and get some leverage. I worked for quite a while in the Potomac Sewer - things ARE slow, but with aggressive advocacy they don't take decades. It's possible to be professionally adversarial without being obnoxious or rude - but it's important to advocate strongly in DC, and that often means having a reputation for being aggressive.

Not that I'm a FAA hater - plenty of good folks there, and some stuff has gone through they know is stupid, but congress wanted it anyway.
 
Sundancer said:
I think we're saying kinda the same thing about the AMEs -

The FAA is gummint - they can't afford to ignore anyone with a few congress critters in tow, or an administrative law judge telling them they've overstepped. That's how to use some of the money to get feisty - pick a fight that matters, not the trivial stuff, make a lot of noise, bother the courts, press for legislation the FAA won't like, and get some leverage. I worked for quite a while in the Potomac Sewer - things ARE slow, but with aggressive advocacy they don't take decades. It's possible to be professionally adversarial without being obnoxious or rude - but it's important to advocate strongly in DC, and that often means having a reputation for being aggressive.

Not that I'm a FAA hater - plenty of good folks there, and some stuff has gone through they know is stupid, but congress wanted it anyway.
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But you can also get a LOT accomplished by quietly going around and working with people.

Too many GOV people, when pressured, are like a clam, they close up tight and do nothing. :D
 
Pinecone said:
Too many GOV people, when pressured, are like a clam, they close up tight and do nothing. :D
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After almost 40 years of working with or for the government it's very clear that the number of gov't people who will bear any sort of risk is very close to zero. It's not that they are bad people (well most) but the gov't system discourages them from taking risks to either their careers or their organization. Their rules are their rules, no matter how byzantine, and they will follow their interpretation of them that is least risky.
 
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I wish we got more visibility into how AOPA operates and what they do on that 'behind the scenes' side of things. They seem to be in the right place at the right time to take credit when GA-friendly things happen.. but I always wonder how causal that relationship is. When pressed for insight into what steps were taken you get a generic "behind the scenes" line about lobbying and all that

I don't think there's any real con to supporting them. GA needs all the support they can get. But I don't actually believe AOPA does that much for GA objectively speaking. I don't believe flying in the US would be like European flying without them, or that our flying landscape would be that much different overall. The things that matters the most to us, costs, they have very little control over. And the way the laws and regs are written it's not like one day Part 91 GA will just cease to exists. If it does, it will be due to costs, not regulation. And if the gov did want to stop GA flying there's very little a relatively small lobbying group could do about it

High costs are the single biggest threat to GA, and the only way to combat this realistically is to get more people flying, more volume in the system. Holistically speaking EAA does much more for GA than AOPA. The EAA fly outs and breakfasts, etc., are fantastic. I can't remember AOPA ever doing any real grass roots GA work.. but I guess it all just takes place behind the scenes (read; pat yourself on the back banquet dinner)
 
So ... was the group successful? The challenge was to: "Talk me out of renewing my AOPA membership"

Did we? :D
 
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Daleandee said:
So ... was the group successful? The challenge was to: " Talk me out of renewing my AOPA membership"

Did we? :D
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Well, I don't actually expire until 12-1, so I'm still thinking (TM). At this point I'm leaning towards letting it expire, but there's always the possibility they buy me off with a better renewal offer.

Plus, I'd really hate to see a kitten get fed to an alligator.
 
Jim K said:
Well, I don't actually expire until 12-1, so I'm still thinking (TM). At this point I'm leaning towards letting it expire, but there's always the possibility they buy me off with a better renewal offer.

Plus, I'd really hate to see a kitten get fed to an alligator.
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They used to give up a pretty nice flight bag but you had to let the membership expire and about the third renewal letter the good stuff started being offered. They once made me an offer for a limited edition hat but never came through with it.

As far as the cats go ... I like cats I really do, but I can't eat a whole one. ;)
 
Speaking of flight bags, a couple of years ago, I got a renewal notice with the offer of the flight bag since my “Membership expired”. Since I had six months remaining, I called to ask WTFO?

A very nice lady apologized and after a bit offered to send the bag anyway. Still using it.

Cheers
 
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