Talk me out of a Debonair

SixPapaCharlie said:
My IR checkride is scheduled. Cirrus is getting listed once I have the hole in my cert.
Click to expand...
Can you get the family discount?
It's a G2, right? I suppose it's worth about 3 decent comanches?

Did I just invent a new aviation monetary unit?

SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't like the way V-Tails look
Click to expand...
I'm so disappointed in you.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
G1. A dinosaur by Cirrus standards.
Click to expand...

m_5d0005cc19c157035556ab85.jpg
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
(Flame suit on) I don't like the way V-Tails look.
Click to expand...

If it's your airplane, then that matters. They do look different, and if you don't like it, then there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people don't like the backwards tail on Mooneys too.

One thing that comes to my mind, especially coming from a Cirrus as a travel airplane, is what you can do with the panel. Both of them are basically the same. A pair of G5s and a GFC 500 would get you a nice package in either.

The biggest thing that comes to my mind is the Lycoming vs. Continental debate. After spending a couple thousand hours flying/maintaining both, my general feeling is Continentals are usually nicer to fly, but Lycomings are more reliable and cheaper to own. A parallel valve 540 is about the most bulletproof aircraft engine ever made, and it's hard to beat that. There are some propeller STCs available for both as I recall that will get you quieter props and thus quieter operation. Plus the 2575 RPM 540 will tend to run a little slower than any of the Continental options (depending on how you run it) which is nice.

Personally, I've always found the Bonanza series to be fairly narrow up front and I think the Comanche is a little better there. But the control harmony/feel on Beechcraft is amazing, and I've never figured out quite how they make it so smooth.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
HAHA! I don't think I would spend much time there.
I find plane specific forums to have a touch more arrogance than I want to deal with.
Click to expand...
There's a bit of that. I don't really post there, but do read it fairly often. It's very active, and there seems to be a higher percentage of pilots who fly serious xc and ifr, so there's a lot of knowledge to be gleaned.

Plus I love the way v-tails look, so I'm curious about what's going on with them.

The piper forum sucks.
 
Jim K said:
There's a bit of that. I don't really post there, but do read it fairly often. It's very active, and there seems to be a higher percentage of pilots who fly serious xc and ifr, so there's a lot of knowledge to be gleaned.

Plus I love the way v-tails look, so I'm curious about what's going on with them.

The piper forum sucks.
Click to expand...
One is a country club the other is a trailer park.
 
Apparently the Hot Sauce has affected your frontal lobes.

That said, I claim first right seat in whatever you show up with at Rough River next year.

Cheers
 
Whatever it is, it should be able to handle a 2600' grass strip that may or may not have a human X on one end of it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
(Flame suit on) I don't like the way V-Tails look.
Click to expand...
I don’t blame you, I’m actually not much of a fan either. The guy in the hangar right next door to the Archer has a pristine V35B and it’s quite nice, but I much prefer the standard tail between the two.

Have you ever thought about going in halfsies with your dad on another (newer) Cirrus?
 
I did my complex/HP signoff and mountain checkout in a B33. I guess the school's B33 was the higher horsepower model as it was a beast. I could depart KTVL on a 9,000' DA day pointing straight towards a 10K mountain pass, and clear it no problem without circling. It's a joy to fly and lands easy BUT...

The control layout is horrid. I mean it is awful. The vernier throttle is real pain to use, and the flap system is horrid. You hold the lever down and do a count, and hope it ends up where you want and half of the time you screw it up and end up resetting it. Plus, the flap lever looks exactly like the gear lever, and both are hard to see. So, after you land, you don't touch a damn thing until you're off the runway and have some time to think about what is going on.

Other than that, it's built like a tank, and if you run it in to the hangar, you are probably going to need a new hangar.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I did my complex/HP signoff and mountain checkout in a B33. I guess the school's B33 was the higher horsepower model as it was a beast. I could depart KTVL on a 9,000' DA day pointing straight towards a 10K mountain pass, and clear it no problem without circling.
Click to expand...
You cheated on your mountain checkout.

<--- did it in a 172 with a not so skinny CFI
 
SCCutler said:
The comments about parts costs are a little misguided.

Now, it is absolutely true that Textron, when they acquired Beech, did the Jack-me-up dance with parts prices (not all of them, but enough to be... painful). Fortunately, though, there is a Very Robust network of parts providers who have you well covered, and there are really not that many truly proprietary parts that can only be sourced from the OEM (this is true for all GA manufacturers). We are all heavily reliant upon a robust aftermarket, and in Bo/Deb world, we have an epic resource - CSOBeech.com - started by Denton’s (and Appleton’s) own Michael Caban. Check it out, be amazed.

I’m not sure I agree, for legitimately equivalent aircraft, that Debs are significantly more costly than other equivalent aircraft, but you should keep your eyes wide open for any plane that will serve well. For Bryan’s use case, I always include the Comanche, and the 210. Maybe the R182. And, of course, Mooney (although pricing on truly-equivalent Mooneys, which to me means 6-cylinder powered Mooneys, will definitely be higher).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that reminds me of Mooney too. People tell me they've heard parts costs are high on Mooneys... But I have no idea. I'm nine years in, and I have yet to buy a single Mooney part. The thing's built like a tank.

BTW, CSOBeech is a great resource no matter what kind of airplane you own. :thumbsup:

It's been a while since I looked closely at the market, but it always seemed like I could get a better Comanche or whatever else for the same money than I could a Bo/Deb. If that's no longer the case, well, great! Of course, the entire market is kinda messed up right now.

SCCutler said:
I’d love to have a Mooney, but the Mooney I really want is built in France.
Click to expand...

320 KTAS is nice. If you do ever get to that point, be sure you call me first!

steingar said:
Somewhere an angel just lots its wings. The Ted and I agree.
Click to expand...

So you were right for once? ;) :rofl:

Ted said:
The biggest thing that comes to my mind is the Lycoming vs. Continental debate. After spending a couple thousand hours flying/maintaining both, my general feeling is Continentals are usually nicer to fly, but Lycomings are more reliable and cheaper to own.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Care to elaborate? I've been very happy with my IO-550...

Plus the 2575 RPM 540 will tend to run a little slower than any of the Continental options (depending on how you run it) which is nice.
Click to expand...

My 550 maxes out at 2500. ;) Of course, I can't bring it back below 2300 either.

SixPapaCharlie said:
HAHA! I don't think I would spend much time there.
I find plane specific forums to have a touch more arrogance than I want to deal with.
Click to expand...

Among the type-specific forums, Beechtalk is the best. Some well-liked PoAers who have never owned Beeches have ended up over there, and a lot of well-liked former PoAers who DO own Beeches still post there when they've been long gone from here. :(
 
Jim K said:
Plus I love the way v-tails look, so I'm curious about what's going on with them.
Click to expand...

What's going on with them? See attached file for what's going on. And that's just the opening salvo (AIG), specific to the BE-35. Insurers are onto the -35. They're no longer willing to absorb the cost of totaling policies outright for garden variety airport rash, over a stipulated unobtanium single part that's not available at ANY price. I don't blame them, it's making the entire market more expensive.


The piper forum sucks.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It's a pretty terse and intolerant echo chamber, and I say that as a fellow Piper owner.
 

Attachments

  • LAD811(01-05) (1) (2).pdf
    65.9 KB · Views: 16
flyingcheesehead said:
....But I have no idea. I'm nine years in, and I have yet to buy a single Mooney part. The thing's built like a tank...
Click to expand...

wait, did I know u had a Mooney? I need to pay better attention. and go back and ‘like’ all your posts.

flyingcheesehead said:
So you were right for once? ;) :rofl:
Click to expand...

something about a blind squirrel finding an acorn now and then....
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
HAHA! I don't think I would spend much time there.
I find plane specific forums to have a touch more arrogance than I want to deal with.

But I might make that post just to watch them sharpen their claws.
Click to expand...
may be a video in it....
 
mondtster said:
they are the nicest flying airplane in that category
Click to expand...
I only have about 15 hrs in various Debonair/Bo but agree.. while I don't like the yoke setup and button locations behind the bar they sure do fly nice!

I wouldn't talk someone out of it either
 
Tantalum said:
I only have about 15 hrs in various Debonair/Bo but agree.. while I don't like the yoke setup and button locations behind the bar they sure do fly nice!

I wouldn't talk someone out of it either
Click to expand...
Do you think they fly better than the Cirrus?
 
I'd fly Aladdin's carpet with carpal-tunnel inducing spring centered side yoke to boot, if it does 160 and came to me for the price of on da house.
 
RyanB said:
Do you think they fly better than the Cirrus?
Click to expand...
It's certainly better balanced

Where the Cirrus can improve is pitch sensitivity. Beech has better harmony in roll/pitch
 
I like Deb's. I like Comanches too, for reasons stated in this thread. A more powerful airplane with a more robust engine. Bigger inside, built like a tank. An updated one would be a good choice.

If I had one, this would be the very first upgrade I'd consider. The visibility improvement alone would be worth the semi-ridiculous cost.

https://www.knots2u.net/arapaho-windshield-kit-piper-comanche-pa-24-models-24aws/
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't like the way V-Tails look.
Click to expand...

I thought I was alone!

Sonex makes the straight tail & V-tail models (they call it a Y-tail) and I much prefer the straight tail for the look of it. Rumor has it that the straight tail (on a Sonex) is much stronger ...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My IR checkride is scheduled. Cirrus is getting listed once I have the hole in my cert.
Dad is going into a 4 way partnership on a Gen 3. I am not sure what sort of access I will have but it will mean it costs me a lot more money to fly it then I put into the current one.

The Grumman is fun but riding in other heavier planes, has me wanting heavier and faster and not getting knocked around as much as I do in the current plane.

Comanche 250 and Deb are at the top of the list.

(Flame suit on) I don't like the way V-Tails look.
Click to expand...

I own a Tiger. If I had the mission, I would be looking at the straight tail Bonanza or Comanche 250’s. The issue with the Vtail and the current insurance situation that AIG has started, could be the beginning of the death knell for the Vtail. Just MHO.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
HAHA! I don't think I would spend much time there.
I find plane specific forums to have a touch more arrogance than I want to deal with.

But I might make that post just to watch them sharpen their claws.
Click to expand...

nahh... just gone on and say your your name is Ben. He’s a legend for ****ing off the BeechTalk crowd! LOL
 
Meh...haters gonna hate. Keep the tails painted and all is good. I’m not worried bout my ruddervators.
Jim K said:
The v-tail definitely has the cool factor, but have a look at this thread: https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=195577&p=2884927&hilit=Insurance#p2884927
Apparently AIG is limiting what percentage of the hull value they'll pay to repair each part due primarily to the ruddervator situation. Kind of like how disability insurance pays 10k for an eye or 25k for a leg.

The "bad news for v-tails" thread, iirc, said textron is committed to making some new ones, but they're going to be 10k a piece, and there's no time table as to when.

Somebody needs to talk Mike Patey into developing an STC for a carbon fiber replacement.
Click to expand...
 
What percentage of your missions would “require” the Deb? And could you pay your dad for those hours in the new G3, as hourly dry rent, to offset his costs?

Another thought - from a family safety standpoint, G3 not only has the chute in case the hot-sauce causes pilot incapacity and family needs to pull the chute, but you are about to get IR, and I would think that blue button on AP and the green boxes/highway in the sky would be very nice and worth the extra cost, not just for you, but the beloved passengers. Unless the Deb has those avionics. 2 cents
 
Rcmutz said:
nahh... just gone on and say your your name is Ben. He’s a legend for ****ing off the BeechTalk crowd! LOL
Click to expand...
Might that be the same BenPilot who used to psss everyone off here?
Miss that drama.
 
I should say that a Be33 would not be my first choice to fly 4 people around. You may run into an aft-CG issue and it is pretty snug. A PA24 is much more accommodating for that use-case. Now, the near perfect plane for 4 adults+luggage is the A36, but that comes with a slightly steeper price tag.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top