Tailwheel or Instrument training?

snu164 said:
I thought about it after I posted, what type of flying do you like to do? Personally I prefer cross country, which makes an instrument rating valuable. Some people like to stay in the pattern, in which case the TD endorsement would be more fun.

Reference the Rod Machado books, I totally agree, I've never made it all the way through one. Check at your local community college. Some of them have ground school classes in a semester format. They're cheap too.
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CheckRidePrep has online ground school. Sort of a mix of prerecorded lectures and online cfis to answer questions.
 
They are both very valuable in my experience. Either skill will get rusty fast without regular use. IR is way WAY more money and time.

IR is boring and can kill new pilots quick because most places concentrate on how to fly in bad wx, not if you should fly in bad weather. The later is more important.

The best pilots I fly with at Delta are tail wheel pilots.

If it were me, I’d go do the tailwheel because it’s fun and you sound like you need some fun in your aviation life.
 
Next weekend I am joining a group of pilot friends and flying ski planes in Cadillac, Michigan. Been doing this for many years, and it is always a lot of fun landing on frozen Lake Mitchell and Lake Cadillac. We fly a J-3 and a PA-18, but since they are on skis, they are much easier to handle than when on wheels.

One year there wasn't enough snow on the lakes, so we were flying with tundra tires. So, some more authentic tailwheel operations. We did all 3-point landings to reduce the risk of hitting a snow furrow and nosing over.
 
Found a home built tail wheel for under 12k this last week.

Bought two airplanes each for under 15k, flying.

Installing a garmin GPS in one for instruments for under 1300.

Instrument rating


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I encourage any Private Pilot Certificate holder that wants to buy an airplane to add their instrument rating ASAP.

You will have the option to fly when the weather is bellow VFR and make you a safer pilot.

You will also need to stay current as an IR, further helping you stay proficient. It's also fairly easy to achieve, since you seem to have the right attitude.
 
Get your IFR rating now while you still have a medical.
Then a just get a tailwheel LSA for your next ride.
 
I jumped right into instrument not long after my PPL checkride. When I finished that up, the school had recently gotten a Champ on leaseback so I tried to get that sign off. The champ had no electrical system, flew with a handheld radio. After coming out of the pressure cooker of instruments, that champ was easily and absolutely the most fun I've ever had flying. Sadly I never got the sign-off though.
 
Will Kumley said:
It looks like my dreams of owning an airplane are not going to come to fruition anytime soon. So now I'm trying to decide how to spend some of the money I had set aside for an airplane purchase. I would like to eventually get both a tailwheel endorsement and an instrument rating. Which would you choose first and why? I've got roughly 140 hours PIC time and enjoy renting airplanes for scenic lunch flights. I understand IFR will require more time and commitment to achieve than a tailwheel endorsement, but if you had to choose, which would you do first?
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Instrument. The actual skills will atrophy unless you keep in practice, but what you’ll learn about instrument flying and working in the system will not.

Tailwheel sign off is a bucket list thing unless you will regularly fly a tailwheel aircraft. Also after five or ten hours you are unlikely to really know all the ways a tailwheel aircraft can bite you. It takes around twenty hours per tailwheel aircraft flown to be competent in that plane and maybe fifty to be fully proficient aka not blanche at a 15 to 20 knot crosswind. And it’s an ephemeral skill though after years of tailwheel flying you can get back into a familiar plane pretty quickly.
 
Instrument is more important for safety, tailwheel is just so much fun! No reason you cannot do both. Tailwheel is quick. Instrument is not.
 
There was a period where I was going to get my IR because, well, that's the next progression after the private (one of them anyway). But since then I've decided no, the IR really is not in my future.

Why not?

One, I've come to realize that while I probably could fly enough to keep it current, at least most of the time, I simply do not fly enough to stay proficient at it, which makes it not very useful. Two, most of the instrument weather around here (Southwest USA) tends to be thunderstorms or icing, and I don't want anything to do with those anyhow. If I lived in Portland or Seattle it might be different. And three, not having it actually makes some decision making easier. Situations where I might talk myself into the idea that a trip is fine with a (marginally proficient at best) IR just become an easy no-go. Safer, if I'm not going to practice with it frequently.
 
I will add my vote for instrument. It will be as long and hard - maybe harder - than getting the ppl. It will make you a better pilot, even in VMC. It will give you options to fly you don’t have with VFR.
 
deyoung said:
One, I've come to realize that while I probably could fly enough to keep it current, at least most of the time, I simply do not fly enough to stay proficient at it, which makes it not very useful. Two, most of the instrument weather around here (Southwest USA) tends to be thunderstorms or icing, and I don't want anything to do with those anyhow. If I lived in Portland or Seattle it might be different. And three, not having it actually makes some decision making easier. Situations where I might talk myself into the idea that a trip is fine with a (marginally proficient at best) IR just become an easy no-go. Safer, if I'm not going to practice with it frequently.
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Hmm, so you are never going to fly outside your area? :)

You get the rating. Stay current (an excuse to fly) and if needed, work at a higher proficiency level.
 
Pinecone said:
Hmm, so you are never going to fly outside your area? :)
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Not in instrument conditions. :) But there are plenty of VFR days all over the place, and I've done a reasonable amount of XC flying even when limited to poor little VFR. If I have to wait a day or two somewhere once in awhile, that's usually okay (and it really doesn't happen often anyway).
 
If you're just looking to do something fun that improves your flying, how about a glider rating? It's not as expensive as getting an instrument rating and can be fun. It's a social experience since most glider operations are clubs where members have to pitch in.
 
deyoung said:
Not in instrument conditions. :) But there are plenty of VFR days all over the place, and I've done a reasonable amount of XC flying even when limited to poor little VFR. If I have to wait a day or two somewhere once in awhile, that's usually okay (and it really doesn't happen often anyway).
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LOTS of nice instrument weather. Or to get above the turbulence and to get back down later. Not all instrument flights are IMC the whole time.
 
As said it's not an either/or choice. You can get a TW endorsement fairly quickly. If you're a decent pilot you may pick it up right away and find it's no big deal. An IR is a real commitment in both time and money. There are three aspects to it - one is to learn how to control the airplane on instruments, which you could conceivably pick up as easy as flying a taildragger. The second is operating the equipment whether it be an HSI, a couple of VOR's and a DME or a G1000. A flight Sim comes in handy for practicing that stuff so you're not paying rental and instructor fees while twisting knobs and pressing buttons on a Garmin wondering why the heck it's doing "that". The third is the whole procedures slog which includes the communications. In the end you have an IR, sure you need to stay proficient but you never have to start over and go through the entire program again.

Then there's the money. You say you have it now but take it from me, life has a way of tossing you curve balls and altering your plans. So, if you intend to do it sooner or later maybe just get it done while the cards are all lined up.
 
Again, the TW endorsement is relatively easy. Having the skills and proficiency to fly pretty much any day under any wind conditions takes both hours and plane-specific time. The endorsement alone is just a fun bucket list item for most, like SES.

IR skills last a lifetime, even if actual proficiency in the clouds is ephemeral. For many it's the hardest rating of all, especially if in-the-system/radio skills are still coming up to speed.
 
Steamflyer said:
Again, the TW endorsement is relatively easy. Having the skills and proficiency to fly pretty much any day under any wind conditions takes both hours and plane-specific time. The endorsement alone is just a fun bucket list item for most, like SES.

IR skills last a lifetime, even if actual proficiency in the clouds is ephemeral. For many it's the hardest rating of all, especially if in-the-system/radio skills are still coming up to speed.
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A lot of great advice on this thread. I've recounted my return to the cockpit after 13 years several times on the board. My last instrument approach was probably during that last flight in 2009, and it was definitely on steam gauges. Yesterday we had planned to fly the dual day XC for the commercial rating from Manassas, VA to Newport News, VA. Weather was 700 overcast when we arrived at the airport, but was expected to improve quickly at the departure and destination points. The XC had been delayed multiple times due to weather and maintenance. In this case, the weather was optimal to not only get the XC completed, but to also fly in some relatively benign instrument conditions.

By the time we had preflighted, the weather was improving at Manassas with the sun breaking through, but still with a broken layer around 1500. We filed IFR and was quickly on top for the duration of the flight. It was nice to finally fly a real IFR flight on the G1000 versus the sim. We flew the RNAV 20, breaking out shortly before the final approach fix. I was definitely behind on the approach, and getting comfortable flying it on the G100 took some getting used to at first. However, using the Simionics PFD/MFD IPad apps, along with Xplane, really helped with the G1000 functionality. My altitude and heading were surprisingly good after so much time away. Unfortunately there was no autopilot in the plane.

Overall, the total trip ended up being 3.8 hours due to a 50 kts headwind on the return, but I agree that the IR instincts were still there in some latent form. The plan is to use the Redbird for some additional instrument/IPC work before getting back in the plane.

The tailwheel rating is indeed a lot of fun. My first several hours in a tailwheel plane were flying aerobatics, which led me to pursue the endorsement. But unless you're flying frequently, it's unlikely you'll gain the proficiency to fly solo comfortably.
 

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