Tact, informal rules, conventions

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4RNB

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4RNB
So, are there unwritten rules in aviation with regards to discussing aviation accidents, especially those involving deaths. I try and pay attention to things that happen, certainly search online for things when I hear of an accident. But I am real slow to discuss or add input. I am certainly slow to bring forth anything publicly.

For example, my state had an accident with fatalities last night. Thus far, no discussion on facebook groups. I am not going to be first.

Another example, same mishap, someone suggested that the "ducks were getting even".

My guess is that staying silent is best for me, but what standards do pilots live by? What do online groups reinforce for behaviors?
 
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I only see av accidents on av forums.
I likely would not get involved with discussions on non-av forums, about accidents.
Unwritten rules? Everyone here has them, but they vary widely from "anything goes" including rude 'jokes'....to.. "we must not discuss anything."

I like to:
-only discuss the known facts of an accident (being careful to hopefully screen the info to ensure these are valid facts and not "typical journalism")
-all discussion is best geared towards safety improvements.
-discuss as if a surviving spouse or family member were listening in ie use some respect
-discuss as if the pilot was you ie would you like to be talked about in this manner, after your crash?
 
Don't allow one person's lack of tact in discussing a person's tragic death be indicative of what is acceptable behavior. There is no harm in being a good and decent person.

And yes, there is a serious lack of good social manner on the internet.
 
Mostly, pilots are decent about 1) not being judgy. 2) keeping discussion safety related in the context of preventing more like or similar to it.

keep those two ideas in mind, no one worthwhile will give you a hard time.
 
Tools said:
Mostly, pilots are decent about 1) not being judgy. 2) keeping discussion safety related in the context of preventing more like or similar to it.

keep those two ideas in mind, no one worthwhile will give you a hard time.
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These are excellent guidelines. I'd much rather read the shared safety discussion here and take something away from it for the next time I'm starting a flight.
 
My daughter is a schoolteacher, and teachers everywhere have found that the kids' social skills have deteriorated seriously after covid isolation and mask wearing. People turn into jerks when they can't see the other's facial expressions... just like internet discussion.
 
There’s an old Proverb that states “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” - and not to get into religion, but if you believe that idle and ill-intended words will cause you grief in the future, and you act accordingly, it is a concept with merit.

if a plane I fly, or an engine that also powers an aircraft I’m flying is involved in a crash, I naturally want to know what can be known for the sake of the preservation of human life in the future. With regards to the humans involved, as others have said, treat them how you would want to be treated (the “Golden Rule”) and that can include honesty (person X ran out of fuel) as long as it isn’t then attributed as more than it is. We are all fully capable of stupidity.
 
Sometimes people try to make a joke...not always in good taste or at an appropriate time. I think the majority of people on here have good intentions.
 
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If you’re looking for a guideline; don’t do or say anything that would embarrass you, your family or your team.
 
In some communities, especially the aerobatic community, there is a reluctance to discuss factual info related to fatal errors a pilot made. It's all under the idea of respect for the pilot and family. I understand it's painful if it's a friend, but the pilot's family is not reading aviation forums, nor would a discussion add to their immense existing grief. Often the only positive that's salvageable from an accident is blunt discussion of the facts and mistakes so that others may possibly avoid the same.
 
RoscoeT said:
In some communities, especially the aerobatic community, there is a reluctance to discuss factual info related to fatal errors a pilot made. It's all under the idea of respect for the pilot and family. I understand it's painful if it's a friend, but the pilot's family is not reading aviation forums, nor would a discussion add to their immense existing grief. Often the only positive that's salvageable from an accident is blunt discussion of the facts and mistakes so that others may possibly avoid the same.
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Well put! If I ever end up worm food from an airplane crash- I hope folks pick it apart! Hopefully constructively… if I’m the victim, or “causer” of an accident then by all means learn from my errors or situation, use the fact my days were cut shorter to lengthen your own…
 
Say whatever you want, as long as it throws me a lesson I can use in my own flying and avoid whatever fate is under discussion.
 
I’ve put it out there to my family, friends and other fellow pilots: If I die in an airplane and you don’t openly, honestly dissect and discuss it, and spread the lessons learned throughout the aviation community, I will haunt the hell out of you.

Trash-talking a dead pilot is one thing, but a fair, unemotional, factual review and learning from mishaps is essential to improvement.
 
I think there’s a fine line when it comes to what should be put out publicly and what should be kept private. Recently we discussed the F-35 accident and really that footage should be kept under wraps until the appropriate time. If it were a graphic fatality, then I have no problems of it never being released. I’ve seen graphic safety briefs in the Army of aviation accidents, including friends, that out of respect to the family, should never be released. Unfortunately, sometimes things get into the wrong hands.

This brings up the Snodgrass crash. His wife pleaded to take down the footage of the accident. In my opinion, Snort wouldn't care but out of respect for his wife, I think those that had that footage, shouldn’t have posted it. Again, a fine line between what’s beneficial to the flying community and what should be kept private for sake of family and friends.
 
dans2992 said:
if they’re reading aviation forums, they should not be surprised to see a discussion.
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I agree.

The recent one I saw did not seem upset by the discussion.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Gryder is an entertainer, and knows it.
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Yes, but part of his deceptive shtick is that he passes himself off as an authority speaking the truth. His inspiration for how he does accident news and analysis is likely taken from the Limbaugh school of pseudo journalism. Say outrageous things that at most might only have a sliver of truth and do so with as much pomposity as possible to make it look like you are confident in what you are saying. And he probably draws in followers with the same low level of intelligence as Limbaugh did. He definitely has his share of ditto heads who buy into his idiotic views. All one has to do is read their comments on his YouTube channel.
 
Dana said:
My daughter is a schoolteacher, and teachers everywhere have found that the kids' social skills have deteriorated seriously after covid isolation and mask wearing. People turn into jerks when they can't see the other's facial expressions... just like internet discussion.
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I’m a school teacher and you ain’t kidding. The inmates are running the asylum.
 
RoscoeT said:
In some communities, especially the aerobatic community, there is a reluctance to discuss factual info related to fatal errors a pilot made. It's all under the idea of respect for the pilot and family. I understand it's painful if it's a friend, but the pilot's family is not reading aviation forums, nor would a discussion add to their immense existing grief. Often the only positive that's salvageable from an accident is blunt discussion of the facts and mistakes so that others may possibly avoid the same.
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Agreed. I have lost 3 friends from the acro community. You are familiar with 2 of them, Paul L and Erica H. In both cases the truth, though painful, is ultimately useful to prevent a repeat event.
 
woodchucker said:
I’m a school teacher and you ain’t kidding. The inmates are running the asylum.
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For sure. Wearing a mask makes it impossible to communicate emotion or subtlety; that is why shows like Phantom of the Opera, Batman, Mash, and the Marvel Franchise were such flops.
 
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fire danger - strawman strawman strawman strawman strawman strawman
 
Hengelo said:
For sure. Wearing a mask makes it impossible to communicate emotion or subtlety; that why shows like Phantom of the Opera, Batman, Mash, and the Marvel Franchise were such flops.
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Well that's a hot take I hadn't heard before now.
 
Hengelo said:
For sure. Wearing a mask makes it impossible to communicate emotion or subtlety; that why shows like Phantom of the Opera, Batman, Mash, and the Marvel Franchise were such flops.
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No, but just like a text, email, or some forum on the internet, it can make it hard to pick up certain cues and signals, such as sarcasm.

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There is no shortage of reasons for adults and kids to be off their respective games in 2022 and “masks” as the culprit strikes me as reeking to the heavens of a different agenda.
 
Dammit I cannot believe I left both Zoro and the Hamburgler off the list…
 
Hengelo said:
For sure. Wearing a mask makes it impossible to communicate emotion or subtlety; that is why shows like Phantom of the Opera, Batman, Mash, and the Marvel Franchise were such flops.
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Um ... schoolkids wearing masks don't exactly have that kind of dramatic talent, experience, training, direction, camera angles, lighting, costuming, scripts, etc., etc., etc. But never mind.

 
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