Switzerland junkers

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Paulie

Line Up and Wait
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paulie
vintage junkers down in Switzerland, no survivors.
 
What surprised me is the article saying the Swiss Air Force used those 52's until the mid-80's! :eek:

Welcome Cadet Klaus to your first Swiss Duty Station! You drew the short straw and will be posted as a pilot in the Ju-52 squadron doing the daily milk runs"
 
Very sad,it would however be like taking a ride in a tri motor. May they Rest In Peace.
 
ARFlyer said:
What surprised me is the article saying the Swiss Air Force used those 52's until the mid-80's! :eek:

Welcome Cadet Klaus to your first Swiss Duty Station! You drew the short straw and will be posted as a pilot in the Ju-52 squadron doing the daily milk runs"
Click to expand...
So the short straw is the good one? :D
 
There was a well-known aviation writer named Martin Caiden . . . surely almost everyone knows his name and some of his history . . . who owned one of these. He had it dressed out in Luftwaffe colors and reading about him just now I'm reading his JU-52 was the oldest one flying - 1936. He sold it later to some company that named it Templehof and it's still flying according to Wiki.

Between this one and the 414 crash at SNY I'm so puzzled that these planes crash in such a way that they kill everybody on board. These planes glide, like all planes. Even with all engines dead these multi-engine aircraft glide just like all planes with wings. There's no excuse for these kinds of incidents unless they hit something - which didn't seem likely in either crash. It totally mystifies me, and I'm sure everyone else. The lady newscaster kept saying "falling or "fell" out of the sky and that always annoys me. Airplanes don't "fall" unless they hit something or get blown up. Even left on their own - no pilots at all, they'll go into phugoid oscillations and work their way down, sometimes evan landing flat on some surface.

I hope Garrison takes these crashes apart in his Flying column someday. Something very odd about both of these events.
 
ARFlyer said:
What surprised me is the article saying the Swiss Air Force used those 52's until the mid-80's! :eek:

Welcome Cadet Klaus to your first Swiss Duty Station! You drew the short straw and will be posted as a pilot in the Ju-52 squadron doing the daily milk runs"
Click to expand...
What surprised me is that 8 posts into a PoA crash thread and no one has done the crash investigator's job from their keyboard.
 
ARFlyer said:
What surprised me is the article saying the Swiss Air Force used those 52's until the mid-80's! :eek:

Welcome Cadet Klaus to your first Swiss Duty Station! You drew the short straw and will be posted as a pilot in the Ju-52 squadron doing the daily milk runs"
Click to expand...

Yeah well, I'd accept that assignment! :D
 
Cadin's airplane came out of Central America. He registered it as N52JU, as I recall. Lufthansa purchased and restored it and registered it as D-AQUI. I believe it t is still flying for Lufthansa.

Also, I recall Lufthansa found fairly extensive corrosion during their restoration, which was done in the mid-80's.
 
aftCG said:
What surprised me is that 8 posts into a PoA crash thread and no one has done the crash investigator's job from their keyboard.
Click to expand...

After being on that side a few times already, I know enough to just sit back and enjoy the theories. I've stood at the site and listen to Theory A turn into Z and circle back around to E by the time we head home.
 
I blame gravity.

If we could just make pilots stop doing stupid-human tricks, like flying near large masses that create strong gravitational fields, we'd cut the accident rate by some magic, useless number made up by a FAA GS-15 looking to make SES.

Like 121.5 ELTs that worked (occasionally), and saved 200,000 lives per month, or ADS-B that will prevent 64.5 GA mid-airs per fortnight, or ADs that managed to be both expensive, and unsupported by rational analysis.
 
aftCG said:
What surprised me is that 8 posts into a PoA crash thread and no one has done the crash investigator's job from their keyboard.
Click to expand...

We have some strange speculation from a Swiss investigator to kick off the theories. Maybe he's a member here. It's a little doubtful a heat wave would affect an aircraft flying at over 8,000'. Who knew man made global warming was so pervasive?



Heat wave could be behind Swiss crash of vintage plane that killed 20 in the Alps

"High temperatures can affect the performance of an aircraft," Daniel Knecht from the Swiss safety investigation agency said in a press conference held Sunday near the crash site in the Alpine resort of Flims, Switzerland.

While heat itself doesn’t harm the plane, it can affect how it flies, as heat is associated with a thinning of the air. "The aircraft has less power at the same altitude, you can feel it at the start or in a curve," Knecht said in the news conference, as reported by the Swiss German-language newspaper the Neue Zürcher Zeitung.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/08/05/switzerland-plane-crash-alps/909791002/
 
3393RP said:
We have some strange speculation from a Swiss investigator to kick off the theories. Maybe he's a member here. It's a little doubtful a heat wave would affect an aircraft flying at over 8,000'. Who knew man made global warming was so pervasive?



Heat wave could be behind Swiss crash of vintage plane that killed 20 in the Alps

"High temperatures can affect the performance of an aircraft," Daniel Knecht from the Swiss safety investigation agency said in a press conference held Sunday near the crash site in the Alpine resort of Flims, Switzerland.

While heat itself doesn’t harm the plane, it can affect how it flies, as heat is associated with a thinning of the air. "The aircraft has less power at the same altitude, you can feel it at the start or in a curve," Knecht said in the news conference, as reported by the Swiss German-language newspaper the Neue Zürcher Zeitung.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/08/05/switzerland-plane-crash-alps/909791002/
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Seems a bit far fetched.

I have no inside info other than what’s in the news, but having a fair amount of mountain flying experience, I have a bad feeling it could have been something like a strong up/downdraft followed by a wing folding up (ie structural failure).

These pilots were not inexperienced mountain flyers.
 
MikeS said:
Between this one and the 414 crash at SNY I'm so puzzled that these planes crash in such a way that they kill everybody on board. These planes glide, like all planes. Even with all engines dead these multi-engine aircraft glide just like all planes with wings. There's no excuse for these kinds of incidents unless they hit something - which didn't seem likely in either crash. It totally mystifies me, and I'm sure everyone else. The lady newscaster kept saying "falling or "fell" out of the sky and that always annoys me. Airplanes don't "fall" unless they hit something or get blown up. Even left on their own - no pilots at all, they'll go into phugoid oscillations and work their way down, sometimes evan landing flat on some surface.
Click to expand...

Or a hard stall. Or some form of destruction of the control surfaces. Or maybe the luftwaffe was involved... ;)

It was an old bird, which undoubtedly didn't meet today's design standards for stall resistance... and there may well have been corrosion.

Note the news article comment: "Daniel Knecht of the Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board said the plane appears to have hit the ground near-vertically and at high speed."

Read into that what you will. I am not guessing as to a cause, just commenting that there are things that could cause a plane to "fall out of the sky".

Fearless Tower said:
Not enough info to even start to guess.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
Having seen more photos of the wreckage, both wings are there and appear to have been fully attached at the point of impact.

Impact was probably at least 70 degrees nose down.

I got nothing....
 
Elsewhere, there's a rumor of the vertical stabilizer being removed by a wire strike. That doesn't appear to be correct since the VS and rudder are visible in the crash photos.
 
kyleb said:
Elsewhere, there's a rumor of the vertical stabilizer being removed by a wire strike. That doesn't appear to be correct since the VS and rudder are visible in the crash photos.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The whole airframe is there.

There is an interesting still photo taken before the dive that appears to show a rather high angle of attack, but that could be just a perspective thing. Also reports of CBs in the area.
 
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