Suspected Carb Ice...Rare Magneto Failure

KE5BM

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 15, 2023
Messages
181
Location
Cape Cod, MA
Display Name

Display name:
Ross
Good Day! I'm a low-time pilot, less than 100 hours having just earned my certificate in April 2023. Last week, I reserved a C172 from the FBO at my home field. It was the kind of day VFR pilots wish for. CAVU, -1800 density altitude, about 40°F and 60% humidity. I was planning on doing a couple hours in the air with some air drills, work on my landings and get some aerial surveillance of a treacherous inlet that has shifted quite a bit after two strong storms had blown through. I offered up to my crew if anyone wanted to go along they were more than welcome and to no surprise, one of our newest crewmen who'd reported less than a week prior wanted to go for a ride. Perfect! He's going to be a boat driver so I can show him from the air some of the waterways of most concern.

About two hours prior to my flight, the FBO called and asked if I'd be willing to take a different aircraft. They had originally scheduled me with the 1963 model C172D that every student here seems to prefer and someone wanted to get a lesson in last-minute. No worries...5 planes to choose from. They offered me the C172K that I did most of my training and my checkride in. I like that plane better anyway so no worries. Now, this time of year the planes aren't getting worked near as much as they do in the summer. During the summer months, the rental fleet is doing triple duty between training, aerial tours, and rentals. In the winter it's mostly on-demand. So, being the prudent guy I am I looked up the ADS-B records to see the last time my plane had flown. The night prior, it was brought over from Nantucket after some minor interior work had been done.

When I arrived at the field, my plane was still in the hangar so I assisted the FBO agent with pulling her out and proceeded to start my preflight. Tanks were full and everything seemed in order. Mistake #1: For whatever reason, when I began my flight training over 20 years ago I was never shown how to drain the engine sump to check the fuel. I had only recently been shown how to do that AFTER I got my certificate. So, I'm still working on making it a habit in my pre-flight to pull that plunger. This day, I neglected to do it. I did check the tanks and all looked blue and bright. My passenger arrived, we talked for a little bit and I took some time to talk about what was inside the aircraft and answer any questions. We had all the time in the world until sunset so I wanted to make sure all his questions were answered and he was comfortable flying with me. Once satisfied, we fired up for this aircraft's first flight of the day. I stayed on the ramp for a bit letting everthing warm up and go through my interior pre-flight. Seeing no issues, I taxied to the active runup. I went through the runup with no issues. Magnetos did what they're supposed to do and the carb heat did what it's supposed to. Again, I'm pretty familiar with this plane so if something was off I'd notice pretty quickly. Waited our turn and once the runway was clear we applied power for takeoff. Even before Vr, the plane seemed to want to jump into the air. This particular plane has a STOL package installed so the early lift can be a little deceiving. At rotation the plane just wanted to eat the sky. I was remarking to my passenger about how high an angle we had for Vy when the engine stuttered a little bit and I lost about 5 degrees of AoA almost immediately. "Must be carb ice," I said as I pulled heat. I had only once before seen carb ice while I was doing some night IFR training with my CFI a few weeks before. That onset seemed a little more subtle but given that conditions were almost perfect and the engine hadn't really reached full operating temperature I (Mistake #2) assumed it must be ice. I pulled heat and for a second it seemed better but it just didn't seem like it was clearing. So I called for a precautionary return which got the A&P's attention on the ground and asked if I needed anything. "I'm good, just think I have carb ice but not 100% sure. I'm gonna come back down and go through some checks just to be sure." Got back on the ground with no trouble...actually quite a nice landing compared to how I've been lately. Taxied back to the runup area. A&P says to me the conditions are right for icing and I asked if anyone else had reported any. None that he was aware of. Three other planes in the area as well and nobody said they had iced.

So I get back to the runup and start to go through my checks again. Up to 2000 RPM this time, pull heat (mistake #3) but didn't cycle the magnetos. I'll just try this takeoff with heat in and see what it does. Couldn't replicate on the ground and everything's running smooth now. Back on the runway and here we go with carb heat on for good measure. I reach my decision point and I'm just now reaching Vr (which is way late) and (mistake #4) decide to rotate. I look at the tach and I'm running a little over 2100 RPM. WAY too low. So I close carb heat, engine picks back up and I'm climbing at normal Vy again. For only a moment. At about 700 feet, the engine stutters again but it feels like I hit the brakes. Actually, it felt more like when you full prop pitch before your RPMs are low enough. I said "nope, I don't like this" and called my return again. A&P comes back on the radio. I tell him, it's not acting like carb ice. I can't seem to get it to clear so I'm just gonna bring it back. I made a tight pattern and came it a bit fast. OK, real fast. I was about 90 knots at the numbers. I floated about 1000 feet but got it down and stopped well before the end of the runway. Taxied back to the ramp where the A&P owner and a friend of mine who works part time came out to meet me. I explained everything I did and they told me it's no trouble and they'll look under the hood. I even asked one of the CFIs working that day if they'd seen ice and they hadn't.

I left the field torn. I felt ok with my decision to get on the ground because regardless of the issue, I didn't feel I was making the right adjustments to fix the problem so I was quickly getting behind the plane. At the same time, I'm thinking maybe I'm just paranoid...I need to work on my engine management in the future. Maybe it was water? I failed to check the engine sump. Maybe it WAS ice and I just didn't let carb heat do it's thing. This flight was right before Christmas and the weather turned nasty for several days so I'd been waiting patiently (anxiously) to see if the plane went back up.

This morning, I checked ADS-B and saw the plane was up. It was returning from a short cross-country flight. I texted my friend at the field "I guess nothing was wrong. I see she's back up."
"Actually, no" he says. "Turns out a very unusual magneto gear shaft failure. Two shafts: one drives the main gear into the engine. The second is a small shaft & gear that opens and closes the points. That one snapped clean off. So you were running on one mag. I think (owner) took a pic when we took it apart."

So, good news is I wasn't crazy. Bad news is, I made a few mistakes that could have resulted in a worse situation and/or could have helped with troubleshooting. So here's what I've learned:
1) Don't skip the engine sump. After this I'm certain I won't need to intentionally remember to do it anymore.
2) When doing a runup, follow EACH item, EVERY time. There was a reason I was back on the ground. The engine wasn't happy for some reason and I didn't take the time to check everything I could before attempting the flight again. I'm certain that if I had cycled the magnetos again, the one that had just begun to fail likely would have alerted me.
3) Your decision point should be CONCRETE. If everything doesn't look 100% correct, pull power and hit the damn brakes. Don't question why everything isn't 100% as you rotate.

My log for the day indicates 0.4 hours. But I'm here to tell you, I learned more in those two trips around the pattern than I did on my two 3-hour cross country flights. Open to suggestions/critiques/comments.
 
Flying is lifelong learning! Surprised to hear you had never heard of sumping the fuel strainer until after PP. The only other advice/comment I would offer is to follow the preflight procedures in the POH/AFM...

Blue Skies!
 
I'm glad you're OK and learned a few lessons along the way. But I'm a bit surprised your CFI never taught when and how to sump the tanks. Even more surprised at the failure to sump wasn't mentioned by the DPE at your checkride.

Blue Skies
 
Flying is lifelong learning! Surprised to hear you had never heard of sumping the fuel strainer until after PP. The only other advice/comment I would offer is to follow the preflight procedures in the POH/AFM...

Blue Skies!
A CFI friend of mine says he’s shocked at how many ppl w some flight training under their belt have no clue to sump the tanks! Really crazy that that’s being missed so much in training.
 
Good Day! I'm a low-time pilot, less than 100 hours having just earned my certificate in April 2023. Last week, I reserved a C172 from the FBO at my home field. It was the kind of day VFR pilots wish for. CAVU, -1800 density altitude, about 40°F and 60% humidity. I was planning on doing a couple hours in the air with some air drills, work on my landings and get some aerial surveillance of a treacherous inlet that has shifted quite a bit after two strong storms had blown through. I offered up to my crew if anyone wanted to go along they were more than welcome and to no surprise, one of our newest crewmen who'd reported less than a week prior wanted to go for a ride. Perfect! He's going to be a boat driver so I can show him from the air some of the waterways of most concern.

About two hours prior to my flight, the FBO called and asked if I'd be willing to take a different aircraft. They had originally scheduled me with the 1963 model C172D that every student here seems to prefer and someone wanted to get a lesson in last-minute. No worries...5 planes to choose from. They offered me the C172K that I did most of my training and my checkride in. I like that plane better anyway so no worries. Now, this time of year the planes aren't getting worked near as much as they do in the summer. During the summer months, the rental fleet is doing triple duty between training, aerial tours, and rentals. In the winter it's mostly on-demand. So, being the prudent guy I am I looked up the ADS-B records to see the last time my plane had flown. The night prior, it was brought over from Nantucket after some minor interior work had been done.

When I arrived at the field, my plane was still in the hangar so I assisted the FBO agent with pulling her out and proceeded to start my preflight. Tanks were full and everything seemed in order. Mistake #1: For whatever reason, when I began my flight training over 20 years ago I was never shown how to drain the engine sump to check the fuel. I had only recently been shown how to do that AFTER I got my certificate. So, I'm still working on making it a habit in my pre-flight to pull that plunger. This day, I neglected to do it. I did check the tanks and all looked blue and bright. My passenger arrived, we talked for a little bit and I took some time to talk about what was inside the aircraft and answer any questions. We had all the time in the world until sunset so I wanted to make sure all his questions were answered and he was comfortable flying with me. Once satisfied, we fired up for this aircraft's first flight of the day. I stayed on the ramp for a bit letting everthing warm up and go through my interior pre-flight. Seeing no issues, I taxied to the active runup. I went through the runup with no issues. Magnetos did what they're supposed to do and the carb heat did what it's supposed to. Again, I'm pretty familiar with this plane so if something was off I'd notice pretty quickly. Waited our turn and once the runway was clear we applied power for takeoff. Even before Vr, the plane seemed to want to jump into the air. This particular plane has a STOL package installed so the early lift can be a little deceiving. At rotation the plane just wanted to eat the sky. I was remarking to my passenger about how high an angle we had for Vy when the engine stuttered a little bit and I lost about 5 degrees of AoA almost immediately. "Must be carb ice," I said as I pulled heat. I had only once before seen carb ice while I was doing some night IFR training with my CFI a few weeks before. That onset seemed a little more subtle but given that conditions were almost perfect and the engine hadn't really reached full operating temperature I (Mistake #2) assumed it must be ice. I pulled heat and for a second it seemed better but it just didn't seem like it was clearing. So I called for a precautionary return which got the A&P's attention on the ground and asked if I needed anything. "I'm good, just think I have carb ice but not 100% sure. I'm gonna come back down and go through some checks just to be sure." Got back on the ground with no trouble...actually quite a nice landing compared to how I've been lately. Taxied back to the runup area. A&P says to me the conditions are right for icing and I asked if anyone else had reported any. None that he was aware of. Three other planes in the area as well and nobody said they had iced.

So I get back to the runup and start to go through my checks again. Up to 2000 RPM this time, pull heat (mistake #3) but didn't cycle the magnetos. I'll just try this takeoff with heat in and see what it does. Couldn't replicate on the ground and everything's running smooth now. Back on the runway and here we go with carb heat on for good measure. I reach my decision point and I'm just now reaching Vr (which is way late) and (mistake #4) decide to rotate. I look at the tach and I'm running a little over 2100 RPM. WAY too low. So I close carb heat, engine picks back up and I'm climbing at normal Vy again. For only a moment. At about 700 feet, the engine stutters again but it feels like I hit the brakes. Actually, it felt more like when you full prop pitch before your RPMs are low enough. I said "nope, I don't like this" and called my return again. A&P comes back on the radio. I tell him, it's not acting like carb ice. I can't seem to get it to clear so I'm just gonna bring it back. I made a tight pattern and came it a bit fast. OK, real fast. I was about 90 knots at the numbers. I floated about 1000 feet but got it down and stopped well before the end of the runway. Taxied back to the ramp where the A&P owner and a friend of mine who works part time came out to meet me. I explained everything I did and they told me it's no trouble and they'll look under the hood. I even asked one of the CFIs working that day if they'd seen ice and they hadn't.

I left the field torn. I felt ok with my decision to get on the ground because regardless of the issue, I didn't feel I was making the right adjustments to fix the problem so I was quickly getting behind the plane. At the same time, I'm thinking maybe I'm just paranoid...I need to work on my engine management in the future. Maybe it was water? I failed to check the engine sump. Maybe it WAS ice and I just didn't let carb heat do it's thing. This flight was right before Christmas and the weather turned nasty for several days so I'd been waiting patiently (anxiously) to see if the plane went back up.

This morning, I checked ADS-B and saw the plane was up. It was returning from a short cross-country flight. I texted my friend at the field "I guess nothing was wrong. I see she's back up."
"Actually, no" he says. "Turns out a very unusual magneto gear shaft failure. Two shafts: one drives the main gear into the engine. The second is a small shaft & gear that opens and closes the points. That one snapped clean off. So you were running on one mag. I think (owner) took a pic when we took it apart."

So, good news is I wasn't crazy. Bad news is, I made a few mistakes that could have resulted in a worse situation and/or could have helped with troubleshooting. So here's what I've learned:
1) Don't skip the engine sump. After this I'm certain I won't need to intentionally remember to do it anymore.
2) When doing a runup, follow EACH item, EVERY time. There was a reason I was back on the ground. The engine wasn't happy for some reason and I didn't take the time to check everything I could before attempting the flight again. I'm certain that if I had cycled the magnetos again, the one that had just begun to fail likely would have alerted me.
3) Your decision point should be CONCRETE. If everything doesn't look 100% correct, pull power and hit the damn brakes. Don't question why everything isn't 100% as you rotate.

My log for the day indicates 0.4 hours. But I'm here to tell you, I learned more in those two trips around the pattern than I did on my two 3-hour cross country flights. Open to suggestions/critiques/comments.

It’s all about learning, we all just hope we don’t run out of luck until we’ve gained all the skills we need :)

I know folks that only check the mags n do a full run up once a day, even on multiple leg hops. I’m a fan of full run up each time, once used to a bird it takes all of a minute or two…

Keep learning and sharing :)
 
It’s all about learning, we all just hope we don’t run out of luck until we’ve gained all the skills we need :)

I know folks that only check the mags n do a full run up once a day, even on multiple leg hops. I’m a fan of full run up each time, once used to a bird it takes all of a minute or two…

Keep learning and sharing :)
That's the way I was taught.
 
I'm glad you're OK and learned a few lessons along the way. But I'm a bit surprised your CFI never taught when and how to sump the tanks. Even more surprised at the failure to sump wasn't mentioned by the DPE at your checkride.

Blue Skies
Looking back at it, it's been 3 CFIs over the years. My first CFI had almost zero experience. I was his second student and his first student was only an hour or two ahead of me. My second CFI was by far the most experienced of the 3. My most recent CFI who finished me up now that I look back at it only observed me doing preflight once, on our first flight together. He knew I had over 40 hours under my belt at the time but had a 20 year gap so I asked him to let me do everything and to interject whenever I missed something because I wanted to see how much I remembered. He didn't correct me when I missed the strainer. I've always sumped the tanks...everytime. After every fueling evolution as well. Part of my Coast Guard training...check clear and bright at every evolution.
 
Not good to take off with carb heat on. It costs way too much power and brings the engine closer to detonation. With the throttle wide open, the risk of carb ice is considerably reduced.

40°F and 60% humidity? Should be looking at the dewpoint, not humidity. Something else the instructor may never have taught you. In your case, the dewpoint works out to 27°F.

1704245772008.png


Temp and dewpoint are on every METAR. They are critical. They are degrees C.

1704245992799.png


On a carb ice chart, 03/M02 would put you at considerable risk:

1704246210882.png


The 172K has the Lycoming engine. They are somewhat more resistant to ice but they're sure not immune. I've had them ice up often enough.

A question you might ask your A&P: When were those magnetos last off for internal inspection? The manufacturers want them opened up every 500 hours (Slick) or 400 hours (Bendix). If this is not done, they are run until they quit. Gears don't just snap; they crack first. They can crack and fail simply due to age and heat, not just hours. They're plastic.
 
Dan, I took a deep dive into the science behind carb icing after this event trying to understand it more and came to the same conclusion you did...very unlikely but possible. I'd like to go back and capture what the ASOS was exactly at that time but I recall 40ish and 60 or 65%. Every CFI I've had mentioned carb ice, of course and my most recent CFI who has since gone on to a regional experienced the carb ice with me on that flight I mentioned. He's a super chill guy who I've never seen get worked up so when he calmly told me "try pulling carb heat" when it happened it was a big nothing-burger.

I know carb heat on takeoff is less than ideal but I was trying what I thought would help. Now I know better.
 
Takeoff usually isn't a problem with carb ice because of the high power settings, but taxiing around before takeoff on certain engines (O-300 for example) is highly conducive to carb ice. The book for the 170 I learned in called for carb heat until you start the takeoff roll. I've had even the later Lycoming powered 172 ice up on a long taxi at IAD. This is why we do that check prior to takeoff (and as close to takeoff as possible).

I flew a pressure carb in my Navion for a long time and got carb ice once when Margy was flying at a very low power setting. We were right in the upper right edge (maybe a little beyond it) of that red blob in the chart above.
 
This post would be a perfect NASA ASRS report submission.
 
The book for the 170 I learned in called for carb heat until you start the takeoff roll.
Interesting, I was taught to avoid using carb heat on the ground, other than for runup, as it's not filtered.
 
Interesting, I was taught to avoid using carb heat on the ground, other than for runup, as it's not filtered.
That's true and the 170 calls for you to avoid it on dirty, dusty, or sandy fields while taxiing. Still you may have to use it to clear ice during the taxi. I should have been clearer. The book says to apply the carb heat during the magneto check, make sure the ice is cleared, and LEAVE IT ON until you advance the throttle to takeoff.
 
I have experienced carb ice a lot, it very real with my 1980 172N.
I flew last night and had a little on climb out again.
2 weeks ago the conditions were ripe for it and it happened 3 times until it was all the way warmed up.
My mechanic thinks it is magnified because of the powerflow exhaust I run that is very free flowing with no muffler.

I just overhauled my air box. Before the overhaul the air flap valve inside was worn letting some hot air in all the time. Now it seals 100% So between the cold intake air, free flowing exhaust and the right conditions for ice I experience it more I noticed. I also noticed my plane runs better and sounds different with a good air box.
Be ready for it is all I can say.

The magneto is scary...There was a 172 from the flight school at my field that went down a couple weeks ago in a farm field with no injury's. First the word was carb ice but then a mechanic told me he thinks it was the magneto? It is still sitting up there so I am not sure of the cause.

My D mag was sent out for a 500 hr inspection last year at 500 hrs. I have flown another 100 since then. That is all I can do besides start inspecting it myself more often.
 
Last edited:
I have had happen on the ground 60-90 seconds after I start if I idle it high at like 1300. At first carb heat is not very effective until 2 or 3 minutes after it makes some heat. I have been using it on the ground during the cold weather and close it for take off.
It is almost routine to give it a little heat 3/4 of the way through climb out until the thing is all the way warmed up in these cold damp conditions.
 
2 weeks ago the conditions were ripe for it and it happened 3 times until it was all the way warmed up.
My mechanic thinks it is magnified because of the powerflow exhaust I run that is very free flowing with no muffler.
The stock 172 has a big muffler in front of the carb. It radiates heat at that carb, as do the four exhaust risers.
I just overhauled my air box. Before the overhaul the air flap valve inside was worn letting some hot air in all the time. Now it seals 100% So between the cold intake air, free flowing exhaust and the right conditions for ice I experience it more I noticed.
If it was letting warm air in all the time, it was also letting cold air past the valve when the carb heat was on, diluting that heated air. The 172's heat muff (on the Lycoming) is already pretty marginal.
I have had happen on the ground 60-90 seconds after I start if I idle it high at like 1300. At first carb heat is not very effective until 2 or 3 minutes after it makes some heat.
I used to hear students starting up on really nice summer mornings. First flight. The engine would idle, then it would try to die, and I'd hear it pick up again. I'd walk out to the airplane, knock on the window. They're open the door, and I'd tell them to pull the carb heat. They would, and the RPM would start rising dramatically. Their eyes would get pretty big, and so would the instructor's eyes. No matter how often I preached about it, it didn't seem to sink in until they actually saw this.

Then I would ask them about the METAR. Did they check it? Yep. What was the temp and dewpoint? Uhh...Duh...

They were really close, as I checked the weather, too, in the morning, especially if I had flown my own airplane before work, or would be instructing later on. That Lycoming wasn't hot. First startup of the day. Its oil wasn't hot, so no hot sump to help warm the carb. There have been crashes when pilots took off with carb ice already accumulated, limiting the power, and they mush along until a bit more ice forms and the thing dies. Crunch.
Takeoff usually isn't a problem with carb ice because of the high power settings, but taxiing around before takeoff on certain engines (O-300 for example) is highly conducive to carb ice.
The O-300 has its carb mounted to the sump, like the Lycoming. It helps, but when that engine isn't hot, it ain't helping. Other Continentals have the carb more remotely mounted, and ice is a perennial problem.

I got this list from an AOPA article that I can no longer find. I used it in my Aircraft Systems course, to show the students just how pernicious carb ice can be.

The most common causes of engine failure:

1. Carburetor Ice
2. Fuel Starvation
3. Water in the fuel
4. Practice Forced landings (factors include cold engine, carb ice)
5. Oil starvation
 
Let me point out that mag failures aren’t rare. I’ve averaged one every 450ish hours over 1800 hours of flight time. And the airplane I flew most of those hours only had one mag (plus an electronic ignition).
 
Interesting, I was taught to avoid using carb heat on the ground, other than for runup, as it's not filtered.

That's true and the 170 calls for you to avoid it on dirty, dusty, or sandy fields while taxiing. Still you may have to use it to clear ice during the taxi. I should have been clearer. The book says to apply the carb heat during the magneto check, make sure the ice is cleared, and LEAVE IT ON until you advance the throttle to takeoff.

Yea I flew the c-85 in my c-140, almost just a 4 cylinder o-300 at least in those tendencies.

I put every 120/140 accident report in excel n went through em all to learn. There were lots of power loss after take offs where engine ran fine post crash. That sounds like carb ice is a prime culprit, especially with a known ice maker.

I always ran carb heat on till take off- in fact my carb heat check was a rise in rpm by briefly turning it off. If it was real dusty I refrained but gave it a longer on at runup power at least.

I figured unfiltered air may not be great but those cylinders often needed changing at half tbo anyway, and even if not: a carb ice crash after take off would harm engine more than dust wearing cylinders slightly early.
 
Our older 182Q has got my attention a few times. I rarely fly that one and if memory serves it was always in cruise. I normally fly a 182S with injection. No carb ice, but can be tricky to get started with a hot engine. Like everything in aviation, it’s a trade off…
 
Let me point out that mag failures aren’t rare. I’ve averaged one every 450ish hours over 1800 hours of flight time. And the airplane I flew most of those hours only had one mag (plus an electronic ignition).
Wow!
Luckily I have not experienced mag failure in 1400+ hrs of flying. Knock on wood. I have had 2 different ones on 2 different engines but I do send them out to a magneto shop for inspections. They were both D mags!
This is what was replaced last inspection. They also provided me with SB, new capacitors/hardware, gasket and installation instructions.
IMG_E2724.JPG

Fresh magneto ready to go back on.
IMG_2731.JPG
 
I'm learning a lot in this thread, thank you. I have to point out that this particular aircraft has a different engine from stock. I don't recall the model number offhand but it's a 180hp model. Registration information that's publicly available shows Lycoming O-320. Next time I'm at the field (hopefully tomorrow) I'll take a look at the model number to verify.

It would appear the overall standing in this group is if I were faced with the same scenario as before (minus the whole magneto failure thing) is to use carb heat from start up to takeoff roll.
 
It would appear the overall standing in this group is if I were faced with the same scenario as before (minus the whole magneto failure thing) is to use carb heat from start up to takeoff roll.
No. That's asking for dust in the engine. Look at the METAR and see what the temp and dewpoint are. If there's a wide spread, like 20°C or more, ice is very unlikely. If, while taxiing, the engine doesn't want to idle with the throttle fully closed, you might be getting some ice. Pull the heat and see. Check it in the runup, but not just a quick two-second pull. Give it time to tell you if you had ice, and when you close it, see if the RPM is higher than when you started. Ice, then. Might want to use it until you take off.

Manual systems require thinking. We have to use our heads, so our heads need a little education.

Old carbureted cars had carb ice problems, too, until someone invented a thermostatic valve that moved the carb heat flapper in the air cleaner housing. That kept the intake temp at around 70°F (20°C) so that ice was unlikely, and the carbs were normally mounted atop the exhaust manifold, or on an intake manifold that had an exhaust channel through it. Kept the carb hot. It worked fine, because cars very seldom needed full power, but in an airplane we need every rev we can get and any form of carb heat will reduce that.

Pilots operating in extremely low temps will often use carb heat to help vaporize the cold fuel in the otherwise cold air, and get more power that way. But they're operating off snow-covered ground, not dusty areas.
 
Finally had the weather/scheduling opportunity to take the same plane up again. Talked with the FBO owner (and lead A&P) about the situation a little bit. Pretty interesting ordeal, I guess. Nevertheless, got it fixed and the plane felt like it had more power than before. Density altitude was -1,300 on this most recent day and the AoA for Vy was uncomfortably high...higher than I ever remember seeing before. Temp/dew point separation was only 4°C with light rain in the area and a fog bank 20 miles to the west. (3°C/-1°C) I found myself to be very nervous on the first climb out, which I didn't expect to be. I was watching the RPM gauge quite closely and it wasn't until I leveled out at pattern altitude that I calmed down. I guess I just needed that little confidence booster after experiencing a legitimate mechanical failure. During my 1.4 hours that day, mostly practicing landings and never saw any ice indication.

One thing I didn't mention before is that my checklist (produced by CheckMate and verified against POH) suggests carb heat "as required" for takeoff. Given that item and the discussion above, does anyone have a time where they've used carb heat on the roll? A couple folks mentioned heat all the way up to the roll.
 
I'm learning a lot in this thread, thank you. I have to point out that this particular aircraft has a different engine from stock. I don't recall the model number offhand but it's a 180hp model. Registration information that's publicly available shows Lycoming O-320. Next time I'm at the field (hopefully tomorrow) I'll take a look at the model number to verify.

It would appear the overall standing in this group is if I were faced with the same scenario as before (minus the whole magneto failure thing) is to use carb heat from start up to takeoff roll.
180hp from an O-320? If that’s the case, someone didn’t update the registration. More than likely an O-360.
 
Carb heat test in dusty places. Yes, the air is not filtered, but if you have just done a proper mag check, most of the dust has blown away, so lack of filtration is not as important as if you were taxiing. As Dan Thomas explains, keep the heat on long enough to clear the ice, and ANY unevenness, or stumbling is a warning to keep on with the heat.

I learned that on a very hot, humid day near the beach in NJ. The old C 300 created a lot of ice in the long taxi and wait for traffic.
 
suggestions/critiques/comments.

Today is a good day to evaluate yourself as a pilot and the quality of your previous training.

Do you know and understand the systems of the aircraft you fly? The fuel strainer is part of fuel system and not knowing what it is and what it does was basic ground school stuff and basic private pilot knowledge.

Checklist use isn’t something new. It was taught 20 years ago when you first started. The 1969 C172 owners manual and every aftermarket checklist includes a check of the fuel strainer. For what ever reason, you are not using a checklist or disregarding items printed on it.

The pre take off runup isn’t your last check of the engine before takeoff. RPM and oil pressure early in the takeoff roll are important. You should not be rotating then seeing the rpm.

Time to look at your risk management. Accidents are a chain of events and airplanes don’t catastrophically fail often without giving some warning. When it wasn’t running right, that’s your warning. You reported the mechanic is right there and 4 other planes to choose from where available. Don’t be so eager to be discount causes and be the test dummy.

This is a good time to seriously evaluate the safety culture of company you are renting aircraft from. Was this mag failure really an odd event or an indication that maintenance of their rentals is as low cost as possible?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top