Sun N Fun is On for 2021!

I fail to believe that people looking at airplanes outside is worse than waiting in a crowded checkout line in a grocery store. Or is that okay because there are stickers on the ground?
 
X3 Skier said:
Not t o be political, but the Federal Government has little say on shutting down or opening. It’s up to the States. The Federal folks can use their megaphone but it can be listened to or ignored (except for Federal offices etc.).

Cheers
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Pretty sure the FAA could close KLAL or limit traffic if the feds chose to do so.

But if it happens I'll be there! It's just a short drive from Half Fast Manor. Hope I can meet up with a few POA folks.
 
Tantalum said:
I fail to believe that people looking at airplanes outside is worse than waiting in a crowded checkout line in a grocery store. Or is that okay because there are stickers on the ground?
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Grocery stores are on the virtue signaling ignore list.
 
Radar Contact said:
Who’s being forced to go against their will?
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The person who has to go to the hospital and pay several thousand out of pocket or the family visiting the undertaker from contacting Covid due to attendees at Sun and Fun.

Sturgis as an example, One month after the rally, COVID-19 cases increased by about six or seven per 1,000 people in Meade County, where Sturgis is located. Counties in the U.S. that sent the highest numbers of people to the rally had a 7% to 12.5% increase in cases, compared to counties that did not.
 
Sturgis was in August. A different epoch. Before that, famously large, “dangerous” Memorial Day gatherings at Lake of the Ozarks had no effect.

As the Triple Tree Aerodrome people said in a recent letter, “. . .Fun, Fellowship, and Hospitality cannot be fully experienced while socially distancing. . . .” If I do go to SNF, it’ll be because I suspect there will be a large number there who aren’t wearing masks and standing on dots, and who aren’t catching any grief about it.
 
As a guy that has been through an ICU and nearly died in the past, if this is on, go. Life is too short.

I imagine most of you have already spent well into a 100 hours last year exposed to hundreds if not thousands of people just buying groceries.
 
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I went to a restaurant in Myrtle Beach this past week that did not require anyone to wear masks, and none of the wait staff had them on. It was the first time since the pandemic started that I was served by someone sans mask. It was a refreshing change, and I haven't died yet.
 
I live between Tampa and Lakeland. Florida has been open for business since the summer and the sky hasn't fallen in. I've been to a number of events with large gatherings of people (thousands) not wearing masks for the most part and there has been no discernable uptick in statewide positive cases. The proximity of people to one another won't be near as problematic at Sun-n-Fun than it was at those events. The bottom line is everyone needs to weigh the risks for themselves and make the decision to attend or not based on what's best for them. My wife and I will be there wearing masks where required and probably not where they aren't. YMMV......
 
Groundpounder said:
I went to a restaurant in Myrtle Beach this past week that did not require anyone to wear masks, and none of the wait staff had them on. It was the first time since the pandemic started that I was served by someone sans mask. It was a refreshing change, and I haven't died yet.
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That is odd because I was in north myrtle 10 days ago and masks were mandatory everywhere from the airport to the hotel to the restaurants I went to.
 
texasclouds said:
Subscribed, I’d like to attend this year if they have it.
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I'm a volunteer along with my EAA Chapter an SnF. All the correspondence I'm getting from the volunteer coordinator is looking good. Of course in the current environment things can rapidly change, so my advice is don't make any irrevocable plans.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Sturgis was in August. A different epoch. Before that, famously large, “dangerous” Memorial Day gatherings at Lake of the Ozarks had no effect.

As the Triple Tree Aerodrome people said in a recent letter, “. . .Fun, Fellowship, and Hospitality cannot be fully experienced while socially distancing. . . .” If I do go to SNF, it’ll be because I suspect there will be a large number there who aren’t wearing masks and standing on dots, and who aren’t catching any grief about it.
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In other words, I don’t care if my actions infect others and the people I am associating at SnF with don’t care if they infect others.
 
Clip4 said:
In other words, I don’t care if my actions infect others and the people I am associating at SnF with don’t care if they infect others.
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We get it. The mighty clipen little has spoken and the sky is still falling. Instead of trying to infect this thread that is about SnF with your recommended life in the basement, why don’t you find one of the many COVID threads for that.
 
Radar Contact said:
We get it. The mighty clipen little has spoken and the sky is still falling. Instead of trying to infect this thread that is about SnF with your recommended life in the basement, why don’t you find one of the many COVID threads for that.
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When you know 5 people who died of Covid and the one other who narrowly escaped, you really do care about a bunch of idiots who want to go to a fly in.

If this Virus has proved any thing, putting a bunch of people in proximity to each other is bad.

Florida doesn’t care. They just want your money.
 
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Clip4 said:
When you know 5 people who died of Covid and the one other who narrowly escaped, you really do care about a bunch of idiots who want to go to a fly in.

If this Virus has proved any thing, putting a bunch of people in proximity to each other is bad.

Florida doesn’t care. They just want your money.
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Yet they still haven't built barracks to keep all the medial support staff on hospital campus, rather then letting them return to homes and apartment complexes where they expose their children, friends, neighbors, spouses, grandparents and everyone else that comes into contact with those children, spouses, grandparents, friends and neighbors.

They even let non-patients in the ER here to accompany patients. WTH would they do that?
 
$420 for two to camp for a week + Covid concerns (I'm high risk). No thanks I'll wait for the videos and hang out here with you guys.
 
The event is going to be a flop anyway. Most vendors aren’t going to pony up the money for a display at an event that is going to be poorly attended.
 
I have worked regular full-time all but 8 days in-person at a busy shop with at least 500 employees on campus, yes there have been cases, almost everyone in my office has tested positive at least once. One these guys had symptoms and out of three tests all negative and he sits within feet of three others who tested positive and had symptoms. I have never gotten it.

My roommate has spent at least 10 days admitted to the hospital and at least 6 trips to the ER, she has never been sick with COVID symptoms or tested positive despite being on pretty powerful immunosuppressive therapies for years. She has been interacting with her heal care working daughter on multiple occasions throughout the year.
 
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Salty said:
Some folk just like to control other folk. Always been that way.
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So that is the big question of our age isn't it. Is your right to risk disease greater than my right to be disease free? As a society we make these decisions in favor of the group all the time. You don't have the right to murder your neighbor, or to drive on the wrong side of the road, or to burn your home down for the insurance money. Not because you are inherently unable to do those things, but because society has decided that those actions are not in society's interest. But those same restrictions protect you. Your neighbor does not have the right to murder you or drive on the wrong side of the road or burn his house down for the insurance money thereby putting your property at risk.

I'm all for your right to do things that have no effect on other people. Want to live in the woods, go for it. Want to be an artist rather than an engineer. Same.

Our rights are almost always constrained in some ways. My "rights" to drive, fly, practice my profession are all regulated, not for my protection but for the protection of others.

This is why I truly don't get the anti-mask thing. It is a proven public health measure that protects us all in exchange for a minor inconvenience. Empirical evidence proves the case. Anecdotal evidence e.g. "I've been hanging with sick people and I don't get sick" proves only that one case. Science, the scientific method and the application of scientific findings advance civilization. Without them, welcome to the dark ages.

That all being said I respect your right to think it a nuisance, I just don't think a nuisance outweighs death, disease and destitution.
 
Arnold said:
So that is the big question of our age isn't it. Is your right to risk disease greater than my right to be disease free? As a society we make these decisions in favor of the group all the time. You don't have the right to murder your neighbor, or to drive on the wrong side of the road, or to burn your home down for the insurance money. Not because you are inherently unable to do those things, but because society has decided that those actions are not in society's interest. But those same restrictions protect you. Your neighbor does not have the right to murder you or drive on the wrong side of the road or burn his house down for the insurance money thereby putting your property at risk.

I'm all for your right to do things that have no effect on other people. Want to live in the woods, go for it. Want to be an artist rather than an engineer. Same.

Our rights are almost always constrained in some ways. My "rights" to drive, fly, practice my profession are all regulated, not for my protection but for the protection of others.

This is why I truly don't get the anti-mask thing. It is a proven public health measure that protects us all in exchange for a minor inconvenience. Empirical evidence proves the case. Anecdotal evidence e.g. "I've been hanging with sick people and I don't get sick" proves only that one case. Science, the scientific method and the application of scientific findings advance civilization. Without them, welcome to the dark ages.

That all being said I respect your right to think it a nuisance, I just don't think a nuisance outweighs death, disease and destitution.
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You can avoid contact with people all you want. Heck, I'm doing it more than I want to. Beyond that, my comment stands regardless of your comments.

As for mask wearing, I've always had people be able to read me like a book. I kinda like them not knowing what I'm thinking even when I'm making faces at them.
 
Arnold said:
So that is the big question of our age isn't it.
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Indeed.. every functioning society needs a balance.. whether it's 5 people on a camping trip or 5 million in a city

Arnold said:
Is your right to risk disease greater than my right to be disease free?
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This is a bit of a slippery slope. For the folks who are at high risk we've come to a point where
(A) there are contact free food delivery options
(B) stores offer special hours for high risk groups
(C) all essential businesses have reasonable safety measures in place
(D) there is a vaccine now and high risk folks are eligible to receive it, with many already have
(E) there are moratoriums on foreclosures and evictions

If I decide to attend an airshow how does my action infect others? Clip (for example) doesn't have to go, and my attendance won't change his stricter adherence to policies. This seems more like some people just want to ruin the fun for others or feel a sense of "gov knows best and they should control people"

Arnold said:
As a society we make these decisions in favor of the group all the time.
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But there's a spectrum here. At one extreme you have zero laws and its a free for all. On the other every aspect of your life is regulated down to the lowest common denominator. I think we have a pretty good balance of that. There's no way to protect all the interests and safety of the entire group at once. And printing money has its limits, at some point society does need to work and function.

Arnold said:
You don't have the right to murder your neighbor, or to drive on the wrong side of the road, or to burn your home down for the insurance money. Not because you are inherently unable to do those things, but because society has decided that those actions are not in society's interest. But those same restrictions protect you. Your neighbor does not have the right to murder you or drive on the wrong side of the road or burn his house down for the insurance money thereby putting your property at risk.
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-these are extreme examples
-if a healthy person who is in a low risk group and is responsible to not see his elderly parents and present unnecessary exposure to at risk groups wants to go to an airport and look at planes he or she should be allowed to. People should be free to make their own choices. It's well known that overindulgence in greasy food kills you, there are something like 650K heart disease deaths every year but we haven't restricted McDonalds or required everyone to go to the gym 3X a week. Hell, we've been in an obesity epidemic for a loooong time but where's the outcry there? Who's stopping you from ordering a greasy deep fried turkey leg at the state fair or gorging yourself on 8,000 calories a day? If you get sick you are also going to take up valuable hospital resources from someone who might need it more or from causes that weren't self inflicted

Arnold said:
This is why I truly don't get the anti-mask thing.
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I don't either.. it's not a big ask and I've always though people's breath was gross. But I think it became more a symbol of "freedom" vs gov compliance for some. I do see people wearing it by themselves in the car or when they're clearly at no risk of infecting others, that also just seems a bit like virtue signaling

Arnold said:
I just don't think a nuisance outweighs death, disease and destitution
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I think that's a bit extreme. COVID is just one thing among a long list of many things that can kill us. We must treat it reasonably. Exposure to the sun causes cancer, should we restrict outdoor events too to limit the spread of cancer?
 
ugh, posting facts gets so old when you're up against the fantasy world folks.........

8.5% of the entire US population has been affected, which only sounds like a small amount because, uh, well because it is.
.14% of the entire US population has died from COVID which again kinda sorta sounds small because, um, oh yeah, because it is (no disrespect to those who have died from covid, it's a horrible thing).
1.75% of the total amount of people infected with COVID have died from it. now this definitely sounds small but that's what happens when you let facts do the talking.

please don't confuse facts with my respect for anyone who wishes to stay home. you have that right and there's nothing wrong with it. I won't blast you for that, there's really no reason to. but you go ahead and blast others who are playing by the facts, if it makes you feel good.
 
Tantalum said:
I don't either.. it's not a big ask and I've always though people's breath was gross. But I think it became more a symbol of "freedom" vs gov compliance for some. I do see people wearing it by themselves in the car or when they're clearly at no risk of infecting others, that also just seems a bit like virtue signaling
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Yup. I wear a mask, but I do not like being told I HAVE to wear a mask, especially in completely ridiculous scenarios.
 
Clip4 said:
Tell that to the 2300 families watching their loved ones die of Covid today.
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Not a single one of them caught it from me. Not one.

This is the kind of emotion driven statement that makes me want to puke. It's 100% pure virtue signaling. Those people are dying even though almost everything was cancelled last year. So, maybe we should blame people like you that want everything cancelled?
 
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Clip4 said:
Tell that to the 2300 families watching their loved ones die of Covid today.
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(clears throat) T H A T is your justification that no one should leave the house?!?!???!?

EDIT: that's .0007% of the population (point zero zero zero seven)
 
XXXX dying today, what did I do? I went to work like most everyone else on this rock.
 
Clip4 said:
In other words, I don’t care if my actions infect others and the people I am associating at SnF with don’t care if they infect others.
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If by “in other words,” you mean, “saying something entirely different,” then you’re right. Those are other words, but they’re not even vaguely related to what I said.
 
People whom feel healthy going somewhere they desire is an immoral risk of spreading the virus but letting healthcare workers exposed to ten or hundreds of infections per day go home every day is fine?
 
eman1200 said:
8.5% of the entire US population has been affected, which only sounds like a small amount because, uh, well because it is.
.14% of the entire US population has died from COVID which again kinda sorta sounds small because, um, oh yeah, because it is (no disrespect to those who have died from covid, it's a horrible thing).
1.75% of the total amount of people infected with COVID have died from it. now this definitely sounds small but that's what happens when you let facts do the talking.
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I will take your percentages as accurate. I will infer that when you said "affected," you meant infected.

A small percentage does not equal a small number.

The U.S. population is 330,000,000 see: https://www.census.gov/popclock/

I will now multiply 330,000,000 x your percentages.

Infected: 28,050,000
Deaths across population of U.S. 462,000
Deaths across infected population: 577,500

The second two numbers should be the same but hey, they are your statistics.

This is the impact of large numbers. Just because the percentage is small does not meant the actual number is small. This is a lesson U.S. industry (especially the auto industry) has learned the hard way.

The result of ignoring mitigation strategies is in fact catastrophic. Hospitals become overcrowded, resources run out, care rationing takes place.

This level of death and destruction is in fact on a par with war. Even a committed Quaker who refuses to bear arms during war will drive an ambulance at the front. All that our countrymen are being asked to do is wear a mask. Your mask can even display any political slogan you want to display. "I hate masks," "masks suck," etc.

Another argument I see above is that "we allow people to do self destructive things all the time." And that is true and I dislike the cost of their and my self destructive behavior, but ultimately it is not contagious. You don't make your neighbor obese by being obese.

I'll say what I said before, I don't get it. What fundamental human right or even constitutional right is being violated by mitigating disease.
 
bnt83 said:
People whom feel healthy going somewhere they desire is an immoral risk of spreading the virus but letting healthcare workers exposed to ten or hundreds of infections per day go home every day is fine?
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COVID-19 has a very high asymptomatic transmission rate - just because you feel well doesn't mean you are well.

The medical professionals I know are a) very well protected at work, b) take additional steps to mitigate transmission. Some well beyond mask wearing.
 
Arnold said:
COVID-19 has a very high asymptomatic transmission rate - just because you feel well doesn't mean you are well.....
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how bout if you get tested and the results are negative? do those facts help?
 
I wear a mask. It says “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot”. Get a lot of laughs and likes from others.

Cheers
 
It helps your peace of mind. Unfortunately you may walk out of the testing center and meet the virus passed by the person in front of you who will find out in two days that they are positive. So, if one doesn't want to wear a mask and tests negative they are free to travel to a FL and enjoy their freedom to contract the virus from the person sitting next to them at the bar.

It is a tough problem. What science does know is that masks, social distancing, good hygiene all dramatically decrease transmission. And decreasing transmission is good for everyone.

I doubt I can change any person's mind. I just don't get anti-maskers.

Just in case we've all forgotten chamber pots used to be dumped onto the street. In the end society decided that municipal waste disposal is an important public health measure that far outweighs the cost and which costs us all quite a bit of money. If one doesn't want to pay for such a luxury one can go live in the developing world.

It's not about your health, its about public health.
 
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