Stupid public school

Everskyward said:
How many people turned out many years later to be not what you expected? I went to a HS class reunion last year and found out the the former class president had plead guilty to theft from a non-profit and sexual harrassment of one of his students (he was a teacher). The star QB on the football team had been arrested for breaking into former President Reagan's property. Oh, and the disruptive kid, he's now a successful lawyer.
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I'm the perfect example. Look at me in High School and compare to now....who'd have thought I'd be where I'm at, when in high school, I was still bullying smaller kids and causing teacher's troubles.
 
Re: Stupid public school mistake screws child

dmccormack said:
I'm with you until the "therefore more funding" conclusion.

There is no evidence that $ per student = "Best" Education

There is certanly a corollary, but that does not make it axiomatic.
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For once, we actually agree. Over the past 30 years we have a pretty good track record in this country of increasing public school funding (on an inflation-adjusted dollars-per-student basis) and decreasing the quality of education.

Adding dollars to education is not the answer. Creating better parents IS the answer - and unfortunately that's not going to be easy.
 
Re: Stupid public school mistake screws child

ScottM said:
And moving to private for profit school would mean that the education system would not be about the money?
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Maybe, maybe not. But one thing is likely, when the private school faces lost revenue for screwing the pooch, they tend to make adjustments to insure that doesn't happen again. Schools just send someone out to whine about how the tax payers should pay more, if they expect admins and teachers to do their jobs.
 
Private schools are probably more efficient in how they spend money since they can't simply send all of the bills to taxpayers.

In 2007, the Wayne Township School Board and then-Superintendent Terry Thompson agreed to a renegotiated contract that provided a generous retirement package for whenever Thompson decided to step down.But it wasn't until this month that board members realized just how lucrative that deal was, to the tune of more than $1 million.

The school corporation has no legal recourse for recouping a severance payout that the board now finds exorbitant, McDermott-Lang said, but board members thought it only proper to ask Thompson to immediately leave his advisory post.The Westside school district, which has more than 15,700 students, recently has had to eliminate some programs, freeze administrators' pay and reduce some teaching positions through attrition.
During a time of layoffs and cost-cutting, teachers struggle to understand why school districts would dole out such lavish perks to administrators as those given to Thompson

 http://www.indystar.com/article/201...tendent-s-1M-retirement-package-creates-storm
 
Re: Stupid public school mistake screws child

dmccormack said:
I can tell you this for certain -- it's the most difficult, with the least tangible rewards.
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Yeah.

I am very hesitant to point fingers at parents, having been there myself. We thought we were excellent parents and our second son proves it - good kid, solid student, degree, good job, nice family, grandkids!

Son #1, the exact opposite - in a heap of trouble, drugs, alcohol, cops and the law.

Best we can tell we did our best parenting with both. And thankfully, #1 is now straightened out, thanks to a good woman. Has a good job now too and fine family. But he had to do it his own way, learned everything the hard way, gave us grey hairs for sure.
 
I find it amusing that some of the most vociferous critics of public schools haven't had any direct experience with them in decades.
 
Is it any surprise that Chairman Mao went to a public school?
 
flyersfan31 said:
I find it amusing that some of the most vociferous critics of public schools haven't had any direct experience with them in decades.
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I don't know that you can say that. I have kids who are or were recently in public schools. I would like to see a voucher system, at least for students from lower income households. There is no private school alternative for high school in my area. The public high school has been dropping advanced courses which is not a good thing.
 
Gary F said:
I don't know that you can say that. I have kids who are or were recently in public schools. I would like to see a voucher system, at least for students from lower income households. There is no private school alternative for high school in my area. The public high school has been dropping advanced courses which is not a good thing.
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Read what I said more carefully.....:wink2:
 
Re: Stupid public school mistake screws child

airguy said:
Simple - you don't wait until the end of the year to solve your problems in the class rooms, the entire premise of your supposition is intentionally flawed and misleading. The disruptive kids get one warning, and then they get tossed out. The non-disruptive ones that don't care can pass or fail as they wish - not my problem - but I won't stop teaching the bright ones while waiting for the dumb ones. The dumb ones will (or maybe will not) make it through, and will get a job with their name on their shirt while aspiring to someday be able to buy their own double-wide. The bright kids will get top honors and move on in life, wearing suits and ties and telling the dumb ones what to do while writing them paychecks on Friday. My educational institution will eventually be a success because parents will realize that we don't dumb down the curriculum and teach to the lowest common denominator, and those that actually WANT to succeed will attend, while those that don't care will go to your public schools to be taught by teachers that don't care. Real-world example - why is Harvard better than your local community college?

Is that "fair"? Nope. Life ain't fair. Build a bridge and get over it.

People are not all the same, as has already been pointed out. We need workers, and we need thinkers. The public schools of 30 years ago knew this, and taught kids accordingly. The ones that absolutely are not ever going to be thinkers were taught a trade so they could be capable of feeding themselves instead of relying on welfare. The thinkers were prepped for college and sent there. The sooner we get over all this "Treat them all alike" BS the better we'll be - they are not all alike. They never have been, they never will be, and pretending they are only hurts the best of them.
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This post really ***** me off. Where do you get off generalizing education to that degree? There are so many things wrong with that attitude, it is hard to know where to begin. Of course, that may be because I went to public school, chose not to go to college, and worked through my life with my name embroidered on my shirt pocket. Apparently I didn't do too bad, because I managed to scrape through pilot lessons and earn enough to buy and fly an airplane.

First off, to teach only the brightest and attentive students is not a challenge to you or the students. That is the lazy educator's way out. The challenge is getting the students who don't really want to be there, to want to be there, and also to get the students who are the brightest and fastest to help those who aren't. It is true that in order to allow the brightest ones to flourish, there needs to be some segregation from the truly unruly. Will you still have disruptions and problem students? Absolutely. Unfortunately, we no longer have the ability to properly discipline the students, as discipline has been brought to the level of ineffectiveness in almost all aspects of life.

Some parts of your post are reasonable. We should not treat all children the same. Many children learn in different methods. A good teacher will employ multiple methods to teach the material, find out which methods work the best for each of their students, and institute procedures that help each student realize as much potential as each particular student wishes to achieve. A lazy, ineffective teacher will prepare only what is necessary, and the results will generally be on par with their efforts. This is the same result for each and every profession out there. There are good ones and bad ones.

And you are correct, life is not fair. But to arrogantly stick up your nose at a very long list of "dumb ones with names on their shirts who aspire to someday buy their own double-wide," is equally inappropriate. Those who go on to earn degrees are not, because of that fact alone, more likely to be leaders in this country. You could very well be paid by a high school graduate in many companies. My employees are. And I try to treat them as family, regardless of their educational background.

I'll quell the rest of my rant, because there are a lot of unkind words welling up at your thoughtless arrogance.
 
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Once a new headmaster at a private school thought that telling a joke before his introductory speech was appropriate and started his remarks this way:

"We all know that our school sends eagles out to soar into the finest colleges. What else should we expect when we start the process with eagle's eggs. And, what is the most important requirement for an eagle egg to mature into an eagle? A warm bottom."

Needless to say the educators didn't appreciate being compared to baby sitters with warm bottoms. It was the shortest term for a headmaster in the school's history.

The solution is in taking average to above average kids and giving them an education that creates a person with a global perspective, the ability to think critically (the rarest of skills demonstrated on internet forums), and be able to work collaboratively. With those skills they'll excel at anything. But, you're not going to get anywhere near that result teaching to standardized tests.
 
"Some of the most...." (emphasis mine)

I went to public school too.
 
You won't see this at a private school. Teachers who can't be fired sleeping in a "rubber room".

"I say enough with Albany rules. You just cannot do this. If the governor's budget contains education cuts, it must also contain changes to the law so that we can take merit into account when making these difficult decisions. It must allow us to keep our best teachers," he said.
He warned it was "conceivable" the city would have to lay off "nearly every teacher hired in the last five years -- the ones who are the very future of our school system. This is serious."


Laying off the 20,000 newest teachers would hit poorest neighborhoods hardest, because schools in those areas tend to have the freshest faces on the job.
"Albany rules say that when it comes to teaching, talent doesn't matter, results don't matter. The only thing that matters is how long you've been in the system," Bloomberg said.

​


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/secret_plan_to_ax_useless_teachers_mU7tPKoA0eNn65FgI4c3VM
 

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flyersfan31 said:
"Some of the most...." (emphasis mine)

I went to public school too.
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Sorry, Adam -- I was just messin' with ya. :D

The whole school debate is filled with platitudes and solganeering, which overwhelms key truths.

I attended Catholic School grades 1-8. Sure, the nuns and monks had the heavy hand of discipline ready to swat down the least breach of protocol, but it taught the worst to be good at sneaking. A non-stop "game through 8th grade was spitting on the "Freaks" -- since there were "freaks and normals."

I was caught between the two since I was bigger than most of my peers (though a year younger) and would fight and win from time to time but preferred not to join in the freak vs normal wars.

I attended public High School where I was exposed to the worst and the best and quite a few in the middle.

My Freshman History teacher would relentlessly pick on me because I wouldn't curse, do drugs, or sleep around (I was 14!?!?!). He labeled me "Pat Boone."

I was at fault for the holocaust, racism, and any other societal ill since apparently I represented all Christianity. My fellow dim bulbs in the 9-4 history section (dummy track) would guffaw when they sensed something was "funny."

I also had a French teacher that constantly badgered me to "live up" to his expectations. Apparently I had something worth cultivating despite the F's I consistently earned in his class. My meterology and Phsyics teachers said the same, but I consistently failed under the heavy homework and test prep load -- why should I "study" when I already "knew" what they were asking (Test and Quiz A's sometimes skewed the homework and otehr work Fs)?

The Very Large Black Girl two lockers down was busted for having a sawed off shotgun in her locker, but she liked me and would shield me from the Black Muslims who prowled the center hall wearing ridiculously expensive suits. One was my former good friend who changed from Dennis to Mustafa something. He wasn't permitted to talk to me any more since I was white dog or some such.

I ran track for two seasons and that provided a connection to the Brains who were also granted Jock status since we usually did well against High Schools the football and basketball teams lost to.

My "guidance counselor" consistently suggested I drop the "commercial pilot" thing and look for work in the trades. Clearly I wasn't cut out for college (This all changed after my PSATs displayed a perfect Verbal and above-average Math. Unfortunately, by then anything she said to me was Charlie Brown's Teacher so I don't remember one word of advice or "Counsel.")

I read through the majority of my class hours, endured non-stop heckling and abuse by students and teachers for failing to respond in kind when scorned for being white, male, and Christian. Graduation day was the happiest day of my life, though I had to suffer the indignity of being seated in accordance with class rank.

All the hard-partying, sex, drugs, and Doctor So-and-So sons sat near the front. The sons of laborers, bartenders, and cops and firemen sat in back.

I tried Community College for Flight Technology but by hour two my CFI had scared me out of the flying thing ("Open your door, we need some drag..." on the intro flight). IN January I was working as a church janitor and realized all I had left was the military.

So I joined because it's all I had left.

Three years, nine months, and seventeen days later I was out and within a month was at Houghton College with wife and new baby in tow. I was not eligible for any GI assistance (the advice I recieved from the VA was "See if you can get unemployment." Answer: No, since I had voluntarily separated. Had I been dishonorably discharged, I would have received benefits).

Two 1/2 years later, after work full time as a security guard and suffering through another bout of mono I had a BA in hand. I had 12 credits from the Air Force when I started. I earned the remaining 120 in 30 months. I graduated with folks who were juniors when I started.

I did well, earned scholarships, and had a job as a teacher immediately after graduation.

Why teaching? After all, I hated High School.

Because I had a completely different perspective -- one that wasn't spring loaded to focus on the fellow school-lovers, but who had talent and ability that would bloom in other venues not as artificial and limited as school.

I taught for five years, and still hear from various students. One is a real estate magnate in Manhattan. Another is a Psychiatist. Several own businesses. A couple are pastors. Some are stay-at home moms. Some are teachers. There are a few attorneys, and a few mechanics and plumbers and electricians.

But I can look each and every one in the eye and say "I did the best I could for you and gave you an even shot." And they would agree.

That's what teaching is about -- people willing to connect with undeveloped, not-yet-complete young people, adapting to who they are and what they might become. Any school that fosters that above curricula and program has my support. Those that don't, not so much.

We have three children. The oldest attended private school until HS and graduated from HS. After some sturm un drang she is now completing her RN. The middle daughter was the classic schoolteacher's perfect student -- attentive, dutiful, smart, obedient. And then 16 happened. She's still smart and organized, but loves her life as a full time mommy to two adorable children.

Our youngest is also bright, but wilted under the school model. I've written about our struggles with school, but the best thing we ever did was yank him from 42 student class and home school him. He graduated from the Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School and is another late bloomer. He's always best in whatever he chooses to do, but he has to want to do it.

Since he wasn't "socialized" by peers he has a bearing and demeanor that makes people think he's older.

A very close family friend is a Public High School language teacher and she shares her concerns and struggles. Their oldest son is in private school while their daughter is still in public school as she thrives there as a member of various sports teams.

So we have some expereince with the school thing -- inside and out. And I will be the loudest, most passionate advocate for choice in schools -- having been subject to no choice.
 
dmccormack said:
That's what teaching is about -- people willing to connect with undeveloped, not-yet-complete young people, adapting to who they are and what they might become. Any school that fosters that above curricula and program has my support. Those that don't, not so much.
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Exactly right IMO. I have 5 kids, every one of them different than than the next. Different interests, skills, personalities, etc. One was reading at an 9th grade level in the 2nd grade, another needed help all the way through until she graduated H.S. They all went to a school that got the best they had from them and showed them they were capable of so much more than they thought. They all got in to their first choice colleges and are high achievers in higher education. Our family spent the first half of their education in public schools and the last half in an independent school education so I feel like I have a pretty well informed notion of the distinction. Public schools as they presently exist do a reasonable job for the opposite ends of the student spectrum - the brightest and the special needs. It's all the kids in the middle, average kids with average motivation, that never realize their full potential unless they just happen to have an exceptional teacher that takes an interest in them. There's just way too few gifted educators to make a difference. That's a societal problem - not a public school problem.
 
PittsDriver said:
It's all the kids in the middle, average kids with average motivation, that never realize their full potential unless they just happen to have an exceptional teacher that takes an interest in them. There's just way too few gifted teachers to make a difference. That's a societal problem - not a public school problem.
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Exactly right, though I prefer teacher to educator.

"Educator" sounds way too high-flautin.

Also, see Jacques Barzun's Teacher in America, where he states "Education is the dullest of subjects..."

:D
 
PittsDriver said:
Exactly right IMO. I have 5 kids, every one of them different than than the next. Different interests, skills, personalities, etc. One was reading at an 9th grade level in the 2nd grade, another needed help all the way through until she graduated H.S. They all went to a school that got the best they had from them and showed them they were capable of so much more than they thought. They all got in to their first choice colleges and are high achievers in higher education. Our family spent the first half of their education in public schools and the last half in an independent school education so I feel like I have a pretty well informed notion of the distinction. Public schools as they presently exist do a reasonable job for the opposite ends of the student spectrum - the brightest and the special needs. It's all the kids in the middle, average kids with average motivation, that never realize their full potential unless they just happen to have an exceptional teacher that takes an interest in them. There's just way too few gifted educators to make a difference. That's a societal problem - not a public school problem.
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The problem is that no school "system" can be built to deal with your situation or dmccormack's. We have too many students in school and a limited time and budget to teach them the "three R's". Asking for individually tailored teaching and curriculum, most of the time without decent parental support, is simply not feasible.
 
tdager said:
The problem is that no school "system" can be built to deal with your situation or dmccormack's. We have too many students in school and a limited time and budget to teach them the "three R's". Asking for individually tailored teaching and curriculum, most of the time without decent parental support, is simply not feasible.
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Then why is it, in the public school system, is there time and budget to create a program for special needs kids or the gifted/advanced learner? I would assert that while small class sizes and individual attention are a part of the distinctiveness of an independent school program, it's not the only or maybe even the most important thing. Discursive and integrated curricula where the kids are taught to think critically, chose a position, and defend it - this speaks more to a pedagogical style than how much is invested in it. Independent schools in many cases cost little, if any, more on a per student basis than public schools but their pedagogy is quite different than teaching to a standardized test. Public school systems that create special programs for the gifted and the special needs kids are spending a disproportionate amount of energy on those kids and through a mandate to "teach to the test" are generally leaving the average student with an educational experience that has us way back in the world list of education quality.

Having said all that, there are some really excellent public schools and some that are little more than day care for 6 - 7 hours a day - and the same can be said for some independent school choices. My remarks aren't meant to be absolute distinctions between public and independent schools.
 
tdager said:
The problem is that no school "system" can be built to deal with your situation or dmccormack's. We have too many students in school and a limited time and budget to teach them the "three R's". Asking for individually tailored teaching and curriculum, most of the time without decent parental support, is simply not feasible.
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Nonsense, and I can point to five successful years doing such.
 
PittsDriver said:
Then why is it, in the public school system, is there time and budget to create a program for special needs kids or the gifted/advanced learner? I would assert that while small class sizes and individual attention are a part of the distinctiveness of an independent school program, it's not the only or maybe even the most important thing. Discursive and integrated curricula where the kids are taught to think critically, chose a position, and defend it - this speaks more to a pedagogical style than how much is invested in it. Independent schools in many cases cost little, if any, more on a per student basis than public schools but their pedagogy is quite different than teaching to a standardized test. Public school systems that create special programs for the gifted and the special needs kids are spending a disproportionate amount of energy on those kids and through a mandate to "teach to the test" are generally leaving the average student with an educational experience that has us way back in the world list of education quality.

Having said all that, there are some really excellent public schools and some that are little more than day care for 6 - 7 hours a day - and the same can be said for some independent school choices. My remarks aren't meant to be absolute distinctions between public and independent schools.
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The Socratic method takes a teacher and students. No labs, no computers, no shiny whatsamadoozits.

But the teacher needs to be competent and capable.

It's sorta funny -- the same small population that will very quickly "fire" a CFI who isn't doing it right is willing to toss up the hands and say "Oh well!" to the problems of elementary and secondary education.

So -- it's OK for you, Mr Pilot, but not ok for your neighbor's kids?
 
dmccormack said:
Nonsense, and I can point to five successful years doing such.
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Point to it across the board then. Take into account the education level and background of the teacher and the students. Make sure you consider geographical locale as well as urban vs. rural. Look at the motivation of the teachers and the support of the parents.

In the end I expect teachers to be teachers, not supermen and women. I do not expect them to spend hours upon hours at home crafting individual plans for each student or group-type while wondering if the next word they say to the smart ass in row 3 is going to get them fired or if their students do not do well on "X" test their pay can get affected.

We have set up a system of failure for both teacher and student today. "No Child Left Behind" was a terrible piece of trash legislation buoyed by "good feelings", which almost always leads again to BAD legislation.
 
tdager said:
Point to it across the board then. Take into account the education level and background of the teacher and the students. Make sure you consider geographical locale as well as urban vs. rural. Look at the motivation of the teachers and the support of the parents.

In the end I expect teachers to be teachers, not supermen and women. I do not expect them to spend hours upon hours at home crafting individual plans for each student or group-type while wondering if the next word they say to the smart ass in row 3 is going to get them fired or if their students do not do well on "X" test their pay can get affected.

We have set up a system of failure for both teacher and student today. "No Child Left Behind" was a terrible piece of trash legislation buoyed by "good feelings", which almost always leads again to BAD legislation.
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I honestly don't know where to begin. :dunno:

Anyway, good luck.
 
dmccormack said:
It's sorta funny -- the same small population that will very quickly "fire" a CFI who isn't doing it right is willing to toss up the hands and say "Oh well!" to the problems of elementary and secondary education.

So -- it's OK for you, Mr Pilot, but not ok for your neighbor's kids?
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This problem seems to be one of those "third rail" type things that nobody is willing to address, much less talk about. Teachers are paid pretty much exclusively based upon how long they've been teaching and what kind of load they're carrying. No consideration is made for whether they are a good teacher or not in how they're compensated or remaining employed. Someone asked a school system director in Sweden recently how they deal with this problem and his reply was, "We don't have bad teachers." I'm not sure I believe that but they may have a system by which only the best make it to begin with and not just because they have a pulse and a teaching certificate.
 
PittsDriver said:
This problem seems to be one of those "third rail" type things that nobody is willing to address, much less talk about. Teachers are paid pretty much exclusively based upon how long they've been teaching and what kind of load they're carrying. No consideration is made for whether they are a good teacher or not in how they're compensated or remaining employed. Someone asked a school system director in Sweden recently how they deal with this problem and his reply was, "We don't have bad teachers." I'm not sure I believe that but they may have a system by which only the best make it to begin with and not just because they have a pulse and a teaching certificate.
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Comparison with other countires is always problematic -- it ignores culture, family, available time, wealth distribution, blah, blah, blah.

Teacher compensation is a function of collective bargaining in most (all?) school districts across the country. Given the makeup of too many school boards I can't say that a union standing up to collective ignorance is all that bad.

Since there is no unassailable, objective measure of teacher effectiveness how do we reward to "good" teachers?

::sigh::

Anyway, the market works very well for producing various levels of quality for the lowest possible price. I can see the attraction.

But then I have choices. Thelma in downtown uniontown with 8 kids and daddies in jail -- not so much.
 
dmccormack said:
But I can look each and every one in the eye and say "I did the best I could for you and gave you an even shot." And they would agree.

That's what teaching is about -- people willing to connect with undeveloped, not-yet-complete young people, adapting to who they are and what they might become. Any school that fosters that above curricula and program has my support. Those that don't, not so much.
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Agreed.

One day I took half of my lunch break answering questions a couple students had about a big project. That's what I'm there for, right? Get into the social studies lounge and one of the teachers asked, "You didn't just waste half your lunch break answering their questions did you??? Oh ho ho ho, you'll learn." There are definitely bad apples teaching in the schools.

dmccormack said:
So we have some expereince with the school thing -- inside and out. And I will be the loudest, most passionate advocate for choice in schools -- having been subject to no choice.
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Hey, I'm all for school choice. I'm an advocate of competition. I'd like to dispense with tenure too. It makes no sense to me in the primary and secondary school system.

For many of the problems, I place blame squarely upon the shoulders of the NEA.
 
I still maintain, as I did when I ran for office in Albuquerque, that the problem stems from the many, many layers of administration. They take the pay that should go to the teachers, and don't provide much of a service or reason for existence.

That is the core problem in public education. Private education doesn't have the problems, because they're accountable for the money they receive.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Agreed.

One day I took half of my lunch break answering questions a couple students had about a big project. That's what I'm there for, right? Get into the social studies lounge and one of the teachers asked, "You didn't just waste half your lunch break answering their questions did you??? Oh ho ho ho, you'll learn." There are definitely bad apples teaching in the schools.
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Yep -- you have that in any profession, though. Fortunately in some that attitude weeds itself out (no promotions, let go, etc).

flyersfan31 said:
Hey, I'm all for school choice. I'm an advocate of competition. I'd like to dispense with tenure too. It makes no sense to me in the primary and secondary school system.

For many of the problems, I place blame squarely upon the shoulders of the NEA.
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My frustration in Pennsylvania is as soon as we talk "School Choice" the various unionistas trot out all the peripheral reasons "why we can't!!"

Meanwhile the same tribe weeps each year at re-runs of JFK Assassination, the guy who said , "I see things as they are and ask, 'Why not?"
 
The biggest joke is the lack of school choice in DC. I used to love reading all the bogus explanations why the President's/Senator's/Congressperson's kid couldn't attend public school, but HEAVEN FORBID the locals get to pick and choose.

I think we're on the same page Dan.

Public schools have good points and bad points. Too many folks are confusing public schools and crappy education. Believe me, private school is NO guarantee of a good education. Too many are happy to take the money and run. The problems run far deeper than "Public School BAD!"
 
OK, Several things here. First off, whoever dropped the ball on Nick's niece needs to get called into the office and get their butt chewed. I don't think they should get fired, lynched, or anything like that, but they need to know that this is not acceptable. Everything needs to stay in perspective. Their evaluation should also reflect their incompetence in regards to this. It really stink. What else is there to say?

Secondly, both of my kids went to public schools. They both did very well. They both got a good education. They both went to college. One graduated from Iowa State University, and has a good job with a TV station as a multi media producer. She is doing quite well for herself. The other is going to Iona College in New York on an academic scholarship. He graduates in May and is part of their honors program. He definitely knows how to screw the top off a peanut butter jar. In fact, he can shingle a roof. So don't tell me that kids these days can't do things. Their teachers were all very committed professionals. I have no complaints with public schools here. Maybe other schools are not like the one my kids went to, but I can't comment on schools that I have no personal knowledge of. Both of my kids never got in any trouble. The first, my daughter, is a rule follower. My son, well he can run. He is a good kid, but not that good. I don't know how much that had to do with good parenting, or how much it had to do with luck. After raising two kids, I am still not an authority on child raising.

Third, it has been my experience that people who send their kids to private school are more interested in what their kids are not taught, than what they are taught. All the private schools that I know around here are religion based schools. Parents who send their kids to them are primarily concerned that their kids are not taught anything that might contradict their interpretation of faith. I'm not saying that they are not concerned with the three "r"s, but that is not the reason they send them to private school.

That is it for now.
 
Re: Stupid public school mistake screws child

I'm coming in late on this thread; haven't read the entirety. But the same situation occurred a couple weeks ago in Maine's Knox County. I'm uncertain of the follow-up because the local paper back home wanted me to pay for the search. I was interested when the story broke because 54 yeahs ugo eye wuz wun of the winnahs in the contest; thow I'm not doin so gud theez dayz with the spellin.

:o)
 
Maxmosbey said:
Third, it has been my experience that people who send their kids to private school are more interested in what their kids are not taught, than what they are taught. All the private schools that I know around here are religion based schools. Parents who send their kids to them are primarily concerned that their kids are not taught anything that might contradict their interpretation of faith. I'm not saying that they are not concerned with the three "r"s, but that is not the reason they send them to private school.
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Sorry, but as a former teacher in a "Private, religious school" I can assure you of one thing -- no topic was off limits, unlike my public school collegues whose discourse was proscribed by an entire galaxy of sensitivities, laws, concerns, conjectures, fears, and worries.
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, but as a former teacher in a "Private, religious school" I can assure you of one thing -- no topic was off limits, unlike my public school collegues whose discourse was proscribed by an entire galaxy of sensitivities, laws, concerns, conjectures, fears, and worries.
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That may be true. Universally, the people that I know who send their kids to religious schools, send them there so that they can get a "Christian" education and not be subjected to the brainwashing that comes from public school. I doubt that the parents even know what the policies of the school are. That said, someone will jump up and say that they are only interested in getting their kid the best education that they can, and that religion has not part in it. OK, whatever. I can only base my opinion on conversations that I have had with parents who send their kids to private school. Same with home schooling. I base much of my opinion on home schooling based on conversations and my observances of fifteen or twenty cases that I have personal knowledge of and know the parents or the students.

By the way, what did you teach, and did you teach in both the public schools and the private schools, or just private? Why did you leave teaching?
 
I went through twelve years of Catholic schools. We were taught evolution, among other groundbreaking scientific concepts. I have since met quite a few public school graduates who were not even taught evolution! I was incredulous. Nuns are okay with evolution. We even had a couple PhDs teaching science.

Let me also say that nuns don't put up with crap from students. So we all ended up polite and well-behaved, even though from my observation few of the students took the religious instruction to heart. There is really something to be said for having to wear a uniform so students don't try to out-dress the others.

One of my neighbors told me she home-schooled her kid so he wouldn't learn about "alternative lifestyles" (her words). Really? She thought she could shield him from society. And this woman was hardly the brightest bulb.
 
bluee said:
I went through twelve years of Catholic schools. We were taught evolution, among other groundbreaking scientific concepts. I have since met quite a few public school graduates who were not even taught evolution! I was incredulous. Nuns are okay with evolution. We even had a couple PhDs teaching science.

Let me also say that nuns don't put up with crap from students. So we all ended up polite and well-behaved, even though from my observation few of the students took the religious instruction to heart. There is really something to be said for having to wear a uniform so students don't try to out-dress the others.

One of my neighbors told me she home-schooled her kid so he wouldn't learn about "alternative lifestyles" (her words). Really? She thought she could shield him from society. And this woman was hardly the brightest bulb.
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There you go. It never fails. Whenever I have an opinion based on my conversations with people this sort of thing happens. I find out that the people I am talking to are the only twelve people in the world who send their kids to religious school for religious reasons. I'll adjust accordingly. :D
Actually, I should know better. My son attends a Catholic college, and he is only required to take six credits of religious study. I figured when he went there that he would be required to take more.
 
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Maxmosbey said:
That may be true. Universally, the people that I know who send their kids to religious schools, send them there so that they can get a "Christian" education and not be subjected to the brainwashing that comes from public school. I doubt that the parents even know what the policies of the school are. That said, someone will jump up and say that they are only interested in getting their kid the best education that they can, and that religion has not part in it. OK, whatever. I can only base my opinion on conversations that I have had with parents who send their kids to private school. Same with home schooling. I base much of my opinion on home schooling based on conversations and my observances of fifteen or twenty cases that I have personal knowledge of and know the parents or the students.

By the way, what did you teach, and did you teach in both the public schools and the private schools, or just private? Why did you leave teaching?
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Yes, I've taught in both public and private schools, high school and college.

My primary reason for leaving was the inability to raise a family with a stay-at-home mom on a teacher's salary.

Keep in mind not everyone shares the view that "religion" is merely an afterthought, like red pepper on pizza.
 
dmccormack said:
Yes, I've taught in both public and private schools, high school and college.

My primary reason for leaving was the inability to raise a family with a stay-at-home mom on a teacher's salary.

Keep in mind not everyone shares the view that "religion" is merely an afterthought, like red pepper on pizza.
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I was curious because my wife graduated from college with a teaching certificate. She found out that she did not like teaching. She changed course early, and now is happy with what she does. You lost me on religion as an afterthought.
 
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