Strategies for avoiding NIGHT VRF into IMC

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I flew a XC trip recently and the Wx was reported BRKN @ 12,000 OVC @ 17,000. It's an eastbound trip and I planned a VFR cruising altitude of 5,500 since I didn't have oxygen on board. I would have liked 7,500 because of winds, but haven't tested my night tolerance at that altitude.

At 5,300 I ran into my first cloud. And I kept running into clouds, so I decided to abandon attempts to get to my planned altitude. I couldn't see them AT ALL. After several instances of VFR into IMC even down to ~4,100, I learned to look for the propeller strobe effect to warn me that a cloud was approaching and maneuver to avoid. My default manuever was a decent since I had plenty altitude below me. ATC was watching me on radar Flight Following and told me that no one was around, mitigating the risk of a mid-air collision. I flew at 4,000-4,500 to maintain visual with ATC approval. No idea if I was still in compliance with VFR cloud clearance requirements, because I couldn't see them to know if they were 1 foot or 501 feet above me.

Can someone suggest strategies for avoiding VFR-IMC at night?
 
Don't fly at night if WX reports suggest it could be an issue?
 
I enjoy night flying and am not IR.

In this case, I could see how it would be astonishing to find clouds at such a low altitude when you were expecting them 7,000 feet above your planned altitude. I wonder what the temp/dewpoint spread was?

I recently learned about reviewing moonlight illumination as part of go/no-go decision making. Someone suggested that above 80% illumination is very bright. I plan to watch for this in the future. Do you know what is was during your flight?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/moonrise.html
 
Flightwatch should be able to give you some idea of cloud coverage on your route. I am a bit surprised, I was able to easily visualize cloud cover on my last extended nighttime cross country. I doubt I would have accidentally blundered into one, they obscure the stars.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I enjoy night flying and am not IR.

In this case, I could see how it would be astonishing to find clouds at such a low altitude when you were expecting them 7,000 feet above your planned altitude. I wonder what the temp/dewpoint spread was?

I recently learned about reviewing moonlight illumination as part of go/no-go decision making. Someone suggested that above 80% illumination is very bright. I plan to watch for this in the future. Do you know what is was during your flight?
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/moonrise.html
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I take the same thing into consideration. But - if there is an overcast layer, I think it erases any moonlighting benefit.
 
I've been flying more at night lately and have been fortunate so far (though I have only flown in severe clear with a good dewpoint spread). I'd be pretty unhappy encountering unexpected clouds. I think the moonlight comment is a good one, but really I believe you handled it as well as could be expected.
 
You don't want any overcast except high and thin with a lot of moon showing. Ideally you want to be ready to go instruments on a moments notice and confess immediately you have entered IMC.
 
As I'm thinking about this, knowing the temp/dp spread is only relevant if one knows the actual lapse rate. ScottD showed me how the FAA knowledge test lapse rate is rarely practical. However there is a tool that is well suited to providing this information.....skew-t log p diagrams.

Unfortunately, the resolution may not provide enough data to cover the route of flight. At this point in my learning about weather I use it as an area forecast tool.

That's all I got. I will be monitoring this thread for better ideas, as I enjoy night flights and do not have an Instrument ticket yet.

Side note: an instrument ticket is not necessarily the saving grace for this scenario. I was speaking with a friend who told me about getting into VFR-IMC during his commercial solo night XC work. He was on an IFR flight plan and could go to instruments, but it was still unexpected. My review of NTSB reports have shown me that IR-rated pilots are also getting into VFR-IMC incidents.
 
Flown quite a few overcast evenings and really didn't have much bother about it. Where I live there are sufficient lights on the ground to tell which side up. Like I said, you can tell there are clouds, they blot out the stars and moon. Wx reports should give one a position on the wet stuff (you're supposed to do that anyway), and one can update those. Stay well below and life is good. I haven't flown much at night, don't have much call for it. But I haven't found it to be some horrible ordeal requiring months of specialized training, either.
 
MAKG1 said:
With an overcast at 17000, lunar illumination was zero, regardless of the time of month.
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Exactly, overcast with layers below at night equals needing to file at least and be ready go on instruments on no notice.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, overcast with layers below at night equals needing to file at least and be ready go on instruments on no notice.
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You get a weather briefing like any other GA flight. You find out where clouds are and where they're expected. You give yourself a reasonable contingency plan in case everyone is wrong.

Never had this kind of trouble at night ever, and I've flown plenty of overcast evenings.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, overcast with layers below at night equals needing to file at least and be ready go on instruments on no notice.
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Yep.
I fly night XCs, and am not instrument rated. BUT...

i only fly under a high overcast in brightly lit metro areas, so I can see unexpected clouds. Otherwise it MUST be clear. If I can't see the stars, no go.

I keep the landing light on. I have seen wisps of forming clouds that told me I was flying at the layer, and was early warning that unforecast clouds were trying to form.

At night, if anything varies from forecast (especially OAT), time to hit the dirt and get a new brief.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Henning said:
Exactly, overcast with layers below at night equals needing to file at least and be ready go on instruments on no notice.
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And layers are funny, too... as the OP can verify, forecast or even reported layer altitudes can be misleading. Over here it might really be 12000 broken, but not far over there there could easily be scattered clouds well below that. I generally assume that if there's "supposed to be" layers at specific altitudes, I can also expect a surprise or two. Never flown VFR XC at night, and that's one reason why.
If I were planning to, though... ditto all of the above, especially looking at a skew-T chart beforehand.
 
kgruber said:
He never spoke of ice. Why change the topic?
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Because half the year where he lives if you blunder into a cloud you've just flown into icing conditions. The IR isn't a panacea, no matter how much some of you think it might be.

Granted, with the IR one might have the wx awareness to avoid blundering into IMC in the first place. That said, the IR is in no way necessary to possess such wx awareness.
 
Was that wx report at sea level? Last I checked the clouds are reported AGL and are not generally reported above 12,000MSL unless there is a Class C or above with trained human weather observer. . . .
 
steingar said:
Because half the year where he lives if you blunder into a cloud you've just flown into icing conditions. The IR isn't a panacea, no matter how much some of you think it might be.

Granted, with the IR one might have the wx awareness to avoid blundering into IMC in the first place. That said, the IR is in no way necessary to possess such wx awareness.
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It always interests me how those without instrument ratings suddenly know what you can and cannot do with them.
 
well, you can always leave the landing light on too - this way to will see the clouds just before you blunder into them.

Also - if you can always see the lights on the ground then you will not be in a cloud.
 
Well, 2,000 hours later, my opinion is...

It's pretty much impossible.

All of the above strategies for trying to avoid it are good, but with over 2,000 hours, I've had times when I've hit clouds and never had any inclination I was about to hit them. Sure, sometimes you can tell you're coming up on one, but not always. About 6 or 8 months ago I was on a trip where I'd flown from Houston to New Hampshire back to Pennsylvania. There wasn't a single cloud I saw on the entire route - day or night portions.

I get to about 10 miles from my home airport and I'm suddenly in a cloud. It wasn't predicted, and I didn't see it. I was VFR at the time and had just canceled flight following (flew VFR home from New Hampshire to avoid routing). It caught me off guard since it was so unexpected.

Night VFR is illegal in a number of countries, and I'm not convinced they're on the wrong track. It seems that many VFR-only pilots in the US have stories of night VFR into IMC.

Get your instrument rating, is my best advice.
 
steingar said:
Because half the year where he lives if you blunder into a cloud you've just flown into icing conditions. The IR isn't a panacea, no matter how much some of you think it might be.

Granted, with the IR one might have the wx awareness to avoid blundering into IMC in the first place. That said, the IR is in no way necessary to possess such wx awareness.
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Oh good! Using that flawed and banal wisdom, he shouldn't seek an instrument rating.

Good for you!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, 2,000 hours later, my opinion is...

It's pretty much impossible.

Night VFR is illegal in a number of countries, and I'm not convinced they're on the wrong track. It seems that many VFR-only pilots in the US have stories of night VFR into IMC.

Get your instrument rating, is my best advice.
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Considering your credibility, I think it good advice. IR still is my plan. I hope I get before finding my future self in the OPs shoes.
 
kgruber said:
No. No. No! Jeff and Comanche says you'll die from all the ice.
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Ice? I never said anything about ice. . .

The reason to stay VMC for non-IR pilots, with an AP or not, is to prevent the stall/spin of death. Thats the reason. Its the only reason.

Now, over some parts of the west, even above the rocks, you have no freaking idea what your attitude is and there is not a cloud for 1000 nm. Its so dark and there are no towns and so few cars you could swear from those cars that they are stars and you are upside down.

Plus, another really bad thing about night time is that the rocks are not lit.
 
JHW said:
stec/century doesn't care if there are clouds or not. So long as the wings and tail stay clean.
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True - but you asked the question why one should stay VMC. Heck, if JFK, Jr. knew to press the HDG and then the ALT button he'd be alive today. . . .
 
Moonlight helps a lot and so do city lights. Other that that it's hard to see clouds in the dark. I've accepted the visual approach from pretty far out because I could see the airport and then, hmm, maybe that wasn't such a great idea...
 
Everskyward said:
Moonlight helps a lot and so do city lights. Other that that it's hard to see clouds in the dark. I've accepted the visual approach from pretty far out because I could see the airport and then, hmm, maybe that wasn't such a great idea...
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if you have alot of city lights - as in big cities like LA, Houston, Orlando, Dallas, places that just sprawl - the clouds get reflected by the city lights - and they are pretty simple to see,
 
comanchepilot said:
if you have alot of city lights - as in big cities like LA, Houston, Orlando, Dallas, places that just sprawl - the clouds get reflected by the city lights - and they are pretty simple to see,
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Agreed. That's why I said I'll fly under a high overcast in a metro area. Otherwise, it must be CAVU with no clouds forecast at any altitude.

At the first hint that things aren't going as forecast, I'm down and done for the night.
 
My point is obviously that an instrument airplane does not mean you can fly any plane through any cloud. Having an instrument rating does not have much to do with the basic problem of staying vmc in the dark when conditions are such that it is the prudent thing to do.

Personally I dont think pilots without an instrument rating should be allowed to fly at night at all.
 
It takes only about 20 real hours to get an instrument rating . . . flying you might do anyway - and $800 for an instructor - and just go do it. I think anyone with more than 250 hours should be flying to commercial standards anyway - and once you cross 1000 you should be able to pass the ATP practical check ride - at least the flying part of it. Its just flying.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Considering your credibility, I think it good advice. IR still is my plan. I hope I get before finding my future self in the OPs shoes.
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Smart move! :thumbsup:
 
comanchepilot said:
well, you can always leave the landing light on too - this way to will see the clouds just before you blunder into them.

Also - if you can always see the lights on the ground then you will not be in a cloud.
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There are a lot of places you can be CAVU and not see lights on the ground except maybe way over there....
 
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