Strategies for avoiding NIGHT VRF into IMC

[spiderweb]

A piece of paper in your pocket doesn't keep the ice off the airplane

Yeah, but it keeps pilots with IRs flying in the clouds safe from people who insist on continuing to fly through them.

 

[spiderweb]

Sigh.

To the O.P, whom everyone has forgotten: When you are in a warm front, you're going to find this. Until you have an IR or better weather, you did corerctly.

Let's hope s/he doesn't do it again.

 

[tlglenn]

omg

 

[jmp470]

I flew my cirrus often at 200', especially in TX!!!! Often we would look at the rice fields down low at say 50' then progressively higher to 1000'. It's not hard to do in TX, but I wouldn't do that in West North Carolina! Or over a populated area. But our own land, sure... it's awesome flying that low...

 

[35 AoA]

I flew a XC trip recently and the Wx was reported BRKN @ 12,000 OVC @ 17,000. It's an eastbound trip and I planned a VFR cruising altitude of 5,500 since I didn't have oxygen on board. I would have liked 7,500 because of winds, but haven't tested my night tolerance at that altitude.

At 5,300 I ran into my first cloud. And I kept running into clouds, so I decided to abandon attempts to get to my planned altitude. I couldn't see them AT ALL. After several instances of VFR into IMC even down to ~4,100, I learned to look for the propeller strobe effect to warn me that a cloud was approaching and maneuver to avoid. My default manuever was a decent since I had plenty altitude below me. ATC was watching me on radar Flight Following and told me that no one was around, mitigating the risk of a mid-air collision. I flew at 4,000-4,500 to maintain visual with ATC approval. No idea if I was still in compliance with VFR cloud clearance requirements, because I couldn't see them to know if they were 1 foot or 501 feet above me.

Can someone suggest strategies for avoiding VFR-IMC at night?

Here are a couple points that I failed to mention in my previous response...

1) I've never heard of anyone getting hypoxic at 7500 ft. Obviously going higher doesn't sound like it would have been better in this instance, but I would not be afraid of altitudes like that in an unpressurized aircraft. I have routinely flown right up to the max altitudes without supplemental oxygen in light aircraft, and have never had even a hint of a problem with it. That isn't to say that it isn't possible, but I find it highly unlikely, and it sounds like you are unnecissarily burdening your flight planning process with pointless restrictions.

2) More importantly, what would have been wrong with just cruising at an eastbound VFR altitude of 3500 ft? That would have been not only been a correct altitude, but it also would have kept you out of the clouds from the sounds of it. Accidentally flying into the clouds at night is nothing to be ashamed of, but one of the biggest tenets of aviation (IMHO) is analyzing the situation that you are presented with, and coming up with a solution, even if it wasn't what you planned on. Yes the cloud deck was forecast to be thousands of feet above your planned cruising altitude, but clearly it became apparent that this forecast was innacurate. What you need to do as PIC is re-evaluate, be flexible, and come up with a good alternate game-plan. Experience is huge here, but don't be afraid to change your plan if the conditions warrant it. In this case, pick a cruising altitude that DOES keep you out of IMC, and then figure out if you will have enough fuel to make it to your destination. If you can't stay VMC (for a VFR only pilot), or if you don't have the fuel to reach your destination at a VMC altitude, then you need to go somewhere else and land.

 

[JHW]

...I've never heard of anyone getting hypoxic at 7500 ft...

maybe not someone with a 3rd class medical but don't forget your passengers. Between a heart condition and a lifetime of smoking, my father tops out around 6K.

 

[steingar]

Here are a couple points that I failed to mention in my previous response...

1) I've never heard of anyone getting hypoxic at 7500 ft. Obviously going higher doesn't sound like it would have been better in this instance, but I would not be afraid of altitudes like that in an unpressurized aircraft. I have routinely flown right up to the max altitudes without supplemental oxygen in light aircraft, and have never had even a hint of a problem with it. That isn't to say that it isn't possible, but I find it highly unlikely, and it sounds like you are unnecissarily burdening your flight planning process with pointless restrictions.

Not to be contrary, but at night you can loose considerable visual acuity at those altitudes if you are not acclimated to them.

 

[cirrusmx]

I flew my cirrus often at 200', especially in TX!!!! Often we would look at the rice fields down low at say 50' then progressively higher to 1000'. It's not hard to do in TX, but I wouldn't do that in West North Carolina! Or over a populated area. But our own land, sure... it's awesome flying that low...

awesome... until the engine quits, a power line gets in the way, or a downdraft microburst gets you. altitude is safety my friend.



are you a doctor?

 

[35 AoA]

maybe not someone with a 3rd class medical but don't forget your passengers. Between a heart condition and a lifetime of smoking, my father tops out around 6K.

Not to be contrary, but at night you can loose considerable visual acuity at those altitudes if you are not acclimated to them

Both valid points. As for the visual acuity, I've never personally noticed much of that effect beyond the normal degredation caused by the general structure of our eyes, but I'm sure that could be a factor for some folks. Then again, so can smoking, a sedentary lifestyle, etc etc etc.

 

[Ted]

I hope to gawd this is an isolated story. Dangerous for the OP and dangerous for IR pilots.

It sounds to me like the OP was more a private pilot who made an honest mistake, and while trying to figure out how to deal with it, ended up making the same honest mistake again. He was probably unprepared for it (this is an area that private pilot training should address better - night flight isn't taken as seriously as it needs to be), making it worse. He was talking to ATC, so I'm not all that worried about it in this case. Sounds like he's learned from it.

The people I am worried about and who scare me are the VFR-only pilots who deliberately blast off into IMC, squawking 1200, and then navigating their own way around. I know of at least one on this board...

 

[denverpilot]

The people I am worried about and who scare me are the VFR-only pilots who deliberately blast off into IMC, squawking 1200, and then navigating their own way around. I know of at least one on this board...

Well at least they were squawking.

Facepalm.

 

[gismo]

As I'm thinking about this, knowing the temp/dp spread is only relevant if one knows the actual lapse rate. ScottD showed me how the FAA knowledge test lapse rate is rarely practical. However there is a tool that is well suited to providing this information.....skew-t log p diagrams.

Unfortunately, the resolution may not provide enough data to cover the route of flight. At this point in my learning about weather I use it as an area forecast tool.

That's all I got. I will be monitoring this thread for better ideas, as I enjoy night flights and do not have an Instrument ticket yet.

Side note: an instrument ticket is not necessarily the saving grace for this scenario. I was speaking with a friend who told me about getting into VFR-IMC during his commercial solo night XC work. He was on an IFR flight plan and could go to instruments, but it was still unexpected. My review of NTSB reports have shown me that IR-rated pilots are also getting into VFR-IMC incidents.

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of IR pilots who come to grief on a VFR into IMC precipitated accident simply were not current and hadn't been for some time.

I can say with some certainty that if you fly at night when you can't see the unlit ground with moonlight you will eventually run into clouds. For any current and competent IR pilot in a properly equipped airplane this shouldn't pose much of a threat (being instrument rated won't keep you from running into something you can't see, but someone who hasn't deliberately flown in IMC for years (or months for a newbie IR) isn't necessarily going to fare any better than someone who's never gone beyond the 3 hours of "flight by instrument" practice required for a PPL.

 

[35 AoA]

It sounds to me like the OP was more a private pilot who made an honest mistake, and while trying to figure out how to deal with it, ended up making the same honest mistake again. He was probably unprepared for it (this is an area that private pilot training should address better - night flight isn't taken as seriously as it needs to be), making it worse. He was talking to ATC, so I'm not all that worried about it in this case. Sounds like he's learned from it.

The people I am worried about and who scare me are the VFR-only pilots who deliberately blast off into IMC, squawking 1200, and then navigating their own way around. I know of at least one on this board...

+10. I dont think there is any shame in the OPs story. Good learning points but he wasnt being an idiot. I got myself into inadvertent day VMC over the mountains in a warrior as a young inexperienced and eager pilot, and i learned a lot from doing that. Much sketchier scenario than the sounds of this one. OPnis doing what any good or one day good pilot does and is reflecting on his mistake here.

 

[ChrisK]

It is a hard core IR pilot that winds up in inadvertent VMC.

 

[Henning]

awesome... until the engine quits, a power line gets in the way, or a downdraft microburst gets you. altitude is safety my friend.



are you a doctor?

Try flying pipeline patrol sometime, your max altitude all day may be 200'. Altitude is not safety, altitude is just reserve energy, what you do with that energy determines whether there is safety to be found there or not. Plenty of people get killed when the engine craps out at altitude as well.

 

[35 AoA]

It is a hard core IR pilot that winds up in inadvertent VMC.

haha yeah there is really nothing more scary than that

 

[AuntPeggy]

No. No. No! Jeff and Comanche says you'll die from all the ice.

Get a grip.

 

[Ted]

It is a hard core IR pilot that winds up in inadvertent VMC.

If I'm flying in busy airspace, VMC is scary. It means there are likely lots of people out there. Fewer people fly on ugly days.

 

[steingar]

If I'm flying in busy airspace, VMC is scary. It means there are likely lots of people out there. Fewer people fly on ugly days.

You know, the funny thing about all this is I've heard two different things from IFR pilots. The first is that it is so much safer because you get all this separation. The second is that most of their flying is in VMC. I've heard this over and over, both on this board and from IFR pilots I Know locally.

The rub is that in VMC you aren't being separated from ham-fisted VFR pilots like yours truly. And I suspect there's a lot of us.

Don't mean to bash, I'd do the IR in a heartbeat were I able. Just doesn't seem like the end-all a lot of guys make it out to be.

 

[Ted]

You know, the funny thing about all this is I've heard two different things from IFR pilots. The first is that it is so much safer because you get all this separation. The second is that most of their flying is in VMC. I've heard this over and over, both on this board and from IFR pilots I Know locally.

The rub is that in VMC you aren't being separated from ham-fisted VFR pilots like yours truly. And I suspect there's a lot of us.

Don't mean to bash, I'd do the IR in a heartbeat were I able. Just doesn't seem like the end-all a lot of guys make it out to be.

It isn't an end-all, but it does improve safety. Mid-airs are pretty rare, but happen mostly on beautiful days, because more people are flying and more are VFR.

I've typically filed because it makes more sense for what I do. But the closest calls I've had have been on perfect days, which is why I don't mind clouds. That way, if it's a close call, I don't know about it.

 

[Henning]

You know, the funny thing about all this is I've heard two different things from IFR pilots. The first is that it is so much safer because you get all this separation. The second is that most of their flying is in VMC. I've heard this over and over, both on this board and from IFR pilots I Know locally.

The rub is that in VMC you aren't being separated from ham-fisted VFR pilots like yours truly. And I suspect there's a lot of us.

Don't mean to bash, I'd do the IR in a heartbeat were I able. Just doesn't seem like the end-all a lot of guys make it out to be.

Well, you're not completely off base, however it does work out to be the advertised 'end all' because if you get yourself stuck needing it, without it you likely will 'end all'. Maybe 2% of my flying time is IFR/IMC, however without the training I got, I would not have survived.

 

[JHW]

It isn't an end-all, but it does improve safety. Mid-airs are pretty rare, but happen mostly on beautiful days, because more people are flying and more are VFR.

I've typically filed because it makes more sense for what I do. But the closest calls I've had have been on perfect days, which is why I don't mind clouds. That way, if it's a close call, I don't know about it.

you get most of the benefit just by climbing above indian country, IFR or not

 

[cirrusmx]

Try flying pipeline patrol sometime, your max altitude all day may be 200'. Altitude is not safety, altitude is just reserve energy, what you do with that energy determines whether there is safety to be found there or not. Plenty of people get killed when the engine craps out at altitude as well.

yes, but pipeline pilots are pipeline pilots, not a low time 50 something year old weekend warrior with his ego way above himself flying as if he were Maverick at 200 ft agl...on a cirrus. with the sidestick and all.

Two longtime and experienced pilots from were i am originally from just got killed doing exactly that, flying really low and slow on an experimental until some powerline popped up in front of them.

The way I see planes are as a tool to get from A to B and nothing else. When you start doing stupid stunts thats when your life expectancy starts decreasing.