Still in shock -- lost a wonderful lady yesterday
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I trim for the flare. I don't trim the flare, but I most definitely trim for it. There is a reason that 182s get firewalls bent, and it's not because of trimming nose up......... If I do have to go-around it takes a little muscle but if I push down get 3rd flaps up, gear up 2nd flaps up... baboom, done. I don't really want to bend my firewall, so I'll probably keep doing it.. There is no point in trying to muscle the thing into the flare at all.
It's the go-around that's the problem.. So much going on in a tiny amount of space. They almost have to be muscle memory.
It's the go-around that's the problem.. So much going on in a tiny amount of space. They almost have to be muscle memory.
Dav8or
Final Approach
This is so to a degree, but I have never flown a plane yet where there is a "strong yaw to the left" on go around. I was never taught to anticipate a strong yaw and get ready with right rudder on a go around and I've never needed it. I've never experienced "Oops! I think she's rolling over" on a go around. Point being, is the plane the right plane to e a trainer?
Dav8or
Final Approach
And neither an RV-6, or a P-51 is certified, nor are they typical primary trainers. The point I'm trying to make is, not what all the planes of the world do, but rather what makes a good trainer and are the current crop of new design light sport planes really that plane.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Yeah, that's a better way to put it. It often may not be #1 priority, but as the right hand goes about its business for a go-around, it's throttle up and carb heat off -- by sticking my thumb out and pushing both forward -- flaps to 10, then right back across to the trim wheel, because by then the yoke has been pitched to the appropriate climb-out angle by sticking the cowl on the horizon (or AI at one bar up) with the yoke, and now I trim away the control pressure as soon as I can.
Agreed with the person who said they change their aim point with power too, that's fine. You're not fighting the yoke in that case either. The airplane wants to return to trim airspeed and has to find equilibrium when you add power, so it doesn't come down as fast, and vice-versa.
You don't want to end up so far out of trim that you're holding hard constant pressure against an airplane that wants to do something else. If there's yoke pressure, as soon as the right hand isn't busy, it should be removing the pressure.
Back pressure can get pretty high in a 182 if you were trimmed all the way up for a steep power-off approach. I don't know about Jabiru.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Not a trainer, per se... but come play with the low speed full-flap envelope of my Robertson STOL 182.
What happens is, you're so slow that the rudder has very little authority. All the left turning factors of high power and a climb angle, conspire at the time when the rudder is weakest.
The "Robertson method" described in the POH Addendum for a Flap 30 takeoff, actually starts with "Rudder trim, full right."
Now do it as a go-around -- right at touchdown speed, with flap 40 hanging out. It WILL seek the left ditch if you don't add a whole lot of right rudder input.
alland
Pre-takeoff checklist
Could not agree more with this statement...
I'm 64 and last year when I finally had the time to live my dream of becoming a GA Pilot I signed up for a 3 week accelerated PPL Course, I lasted all of a week and a half had just got to do my first solo's and I had to hold my hand up and call a halt, I was just completely stressed and burned out such was the intensity of the 3 week "Zero to PPL" course.
I decided to do it on a hour by hour basis, flying for 2 or three hours a day on 1 week stints every couple of months, it took me the best part of a year to reach and pass my checkride in October. The day after I passed my checkride I had to leave Florida to return home to the UK, I won't pilot an aircraft again until I return to Florida in January.....and who will be in the right hand seat as I roll down the runway for my first flight ? ...my CFI !
Yes I have my ticket, legally I no longer need him sat there, but in the interest of my own safely and anyone else's, I will be happier when I have done a mock checkride with him again before venturing out alone or with my wife on board.
I am very saddened to read of this lady's accident,unfortunately it serves has a harsh reminder of how vulnerable we are, especially during our flight training.
Sincere condolences to her family and friends.
RIP mam
dell30rb
Final Approach
Man I think you are missing some important training.
Try a power on stall in a 172 with no rudder input. Or any SEL for that matter. (Maybe not a pa-28 though) The thing will break and drop the left wing hard. The ball will be way out of the cage leading up to the stall. On the other hand, if you do a power on stall while you have the correct amount of right rudder in, ball centered, it won't drop a wing.
dell30rb
Final Approach
Here is an example. Student botches a landing in a 172 then gives full power for a go around. Watch the plane yaw left and hear the guys saying 'right rudder!' If the student had pulled back on the yoke in this situation, with flaps out and the airplane severely uncoordinated, the plane would not only stall but the left wing would tuck under and it would take several hundred feet to recover at that point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eopl5QLQ5zs&sns=em
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eopl5QLQ5zs&sns=em
jhausch
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jhausch
Great video - (my guess) plane stayed yawed probably until the pilot stopped looking down at/for throttle, mixture, carb heat, and flaps. Looked up (and likely out the left side) and said, "oh my, this isn't right" and applied right boot...
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
True. I suppose I was spoiled by Cherokee 140. Its engine is not powerful enough to re-trim it significantly on a go-around. But then it's hard to imagine J250 requiring it. That's why I thought that maybe the Y-stick shared the blame. But then remember that other guy who stalled in his first solo in a C-150? Obviously 150 has a yoke.
3393RP
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3393RP
The point of impact was about 450' left of the Runway 14 center line. The two hangers the aircraft hit (where the Citation is parked on the Google map) were about 1/3 of the distance from the 5,500' Runway 14 threshold. Based on these observations, it appears the aircraft yawed aggressively to the left and there was little or no corrective rudder input. When the aircraft turned toward the hangers it is likely the pilot instinctively pulled on the stick to gain altitude, resulting in a stall as the aircraft turned on its back.
I can see where suddenly finding oneself in a situation that is completely unexpected would result in panic, especially given the age of the student. Although I can only assume what happened, perhaps the sudden application of throttle in a light aircraft with limited load capacity and without the weight of the instructor on board quickly overwhelmed the pilot's training.
As in all such incidents, all we can do is file the information for use in our own flying and express sorrow at the loss of a fellow pilot.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF...q=Cherokee+County+Airport&iwloc=A&gl=US&hl=en
I can see where suddenly finding oneself in a situation that is completely unexpected would result in panic, especially given the age of the student. Although I can only assume what happened, perhaps the sudden application of throttle in a light aircraft with limited load capacity and without the weight of the instructor on board quickly overwhelmed the pilot's training.
As in all such incidents, all we can do is file the information for use in our own flying and express sorrow at the loss of a fellow pilot.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF...q=Cherokee+County+Airport&iwloc=A&gl=US&hl=en
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
I suspect you have probably never seen a video yourself doing a go-around.
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Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not trying to diminish your point, but it is worth mentioning that the 'few exotic exceptions' are increasing as more folks get into EABs. As I have been looking in the market lately, I have come across quite a few experimentals with engines turning the other direction (ie you need LEFT rudder on takeoff).
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BillTIZ
Final Approach
I HOPE you don't approve them for Touch & Goes!
Not really a T&G, but I have seen experienced pilots log more than one touchdown per approach.
The Jabiru needs a lot more right rudder during takeoff and climb than the Mooney and Cessnas I've flown
Dan Thomas
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It will still drop the left wing, just not so aggressively. The spiralling propeller slipstream gets the AoA higher on the left wing root, starting the stall sooner there, and propeller torque reaction does the rest.
Dan
While all true, weight is also a factor, and on first solo you've shed (at least for MY students) a pretty significant portion of the payload! They need to be ready for that change.