"Stay with me..." frequency change.

[luvflyin]

That's so boring. Why would anyone read the manual if you can re-invent the wheel.


2. At times, a controller/specialist may be working a sector with multiple frequency assignments. In order to eliminate unnecessary verbiage and to free the controller/specialist for higher priority transmissions, the controller/specialist may request the pilot “(Identification), change to my frequency 123.4.” This phrase should alert the pilot that the controller/specialist is only changing frequencies, not controller/specialist, and that initial callup phraseology may be abbreviated.

“United Two Twenty−Two on one two three point four”
or
“one two three point four, United Two Twenty−Two.”

Thanks for taking the time to copy and paste that. Not trying to re-invent the wheel here, but the frequency is really kinda redundant. The Controller knows what freq’s he’s using. He knows he just switched you. This is where things like “I’m here now” are perfectly valid.

 

[Palmpilot]

“United Two Twenty−Two on one two three point four”
or
“one two three point four, United Two Twenty−Two.”

Looks like I got it exactly right in Post #2.

 

[midlifeflyer]

As mentioned, commonly used when a controller is working combined sectors and you're leaving the freq range of the one you're on. I usually say, "N345 change to my frequency 119.xx". When I'm flying I usually change and then reply back, "N1BC up/with you 119.35". No real wrong answers here.

I've mentioned before but the "with you" hot button isn't with any controller I've ever met...and I know a lot. It's usually debated amongst pilots.

...and really, even for those who dislike it, "with you" seems oddly appropriate

Me, I'm a "34X on 23.45" guy

 

[Salty]

Thanks for taking the time to copy and paste that. Not trying to re-invent the wheel here, but the frequency is really kinda redundant. The Controller knows what freq’s he’s using. He knows he just switched you. This is where things like “I’m here now” are perfectly valid.

If he’s listening in multiple frequencies, how does he know you switched unless you give him the freq?

 

[C-1 PILOT]

You already confirmed you heard him and he's confirmed you heard the frequency correctly before you made the change (no corrections). He heard you both times. Now you're going to say "I'm here"? As if there was any doubt from the first two times you confirmed it? You aren't providing a service to other pilots by reading it back, or him. Same reason I think "with you" is a stupid phrase.

The "only" reason I can see a need to check in is when you are changing controllers or you receive some additional instruction that you need to confirm in addition to the change. Such as "change to 119.xx, fly heading 260". At which point I would readback Bugsmasher 123 switching to 119.xx, heading 260. And then I would verify once changing "Bugsmasher 123, heading 260". That means something to other pilots, it means something to him too because he knows you are on a 260 heading now. Saying your callsign again with no applicable changes to anything is a waste of a transmission. Also, there's a possibility ATC folks may take that as the start of a request.

Bugsmasher 123, say request.

Does ATC regularly give instructions that they expect will not be followed? Why after reading back the frequency twice (correctly) would you assume the aircraft isn't on that frequency?

I think you misunderstood my response. I’m good with a short transmission once on the new frequency, do you agree? To switch frequency’s and not acknowledge is where I have an issue.

 

[weilke]

Thanks for taking the time to copy and paste that. Not trying to re-invent the wheel here, but the frequency is really kinda redundant. The Controller knows what freq’s he’s using. He knows he just switched you. This is where things like “I’m here now” are perfectly valid.

Mh, unless you rely on the controller recognizing your lovely voice, that's a transmission without any useful content. If you look in the two chapters before the one quoted, you are always supposed to acknowledge receipt of an instruction with a transmission that somehow includes your call-sign. The controller wants to know that it was YOU that changed to his new frequency, not some other yokel who misheard the instruction. That's basic radio procedure regardless of the system.




The only point of the 'switch to MY frequency' phraseology is that you can skip the altitude check that you would do with a new controller.

 

[lancie00]

I'm trying to understand the context that this was used in.

("Remain with me and change frequency to 119.XX") I'm not understanding that... Same controller but wanted you to check in on a different freq?

Nonetheless, nobody really cares if you say 'with you' when checking in with the next controller. Just say 'Cessna 123 is up on 119.xx'.

Yes, same controller wanted me on a different frequency.

 

[Larry in TN]

Standard phraseology is developed to improve communication and avoid misunderstandings. There are situations were no applicable standard phraseology exists but, when there is, we should all try to use it. That is how the system is designed to work. That is how the system works best.

For anyone who wants to see it, it’s 4-2-3 d. 2.

That's for looking up the reference. I didn't have time to do it when I was posting before.

 

[luvflyin]

If he’s listening in multiple frequencies, how does he know you switched unless you give him the freq?

Saying the frequency doesn’t mean you switched. Pilots checking in with a new controller after not having switched is a common occurrence. But yeah, reading the freq is the best bet.

 

[sarangan]

I went on a fishing trip this weekend and used flight following on a 350 mile cross country each way. Along the route I had a couple of "Remain with me and change frequency to 119.XX" Once I changed frequency, what is the correct radio call? I know "with you" is a hot button phrase but what should I say? "Bugsmasher 123 frequency change"? "Bugsmasher 123 on frequency"? Or should I say nothing and wait until they make contact again?

A couple of weeks ago I had the same thing, and I checked in with "with you", and cringed as I said it.

 

[luvflyin]

Mh, unless you rely on the controller recognizing your lovely voice, that's a transmission without any useful content. If you look in the two chapters before the one quoted, you are always supposed to acknowledge receipt of an instruction with a transmission that somehow includes your call-sign. The controller wants to know that it was YOU that changed to his new frequency, not some other yokel who misheard the instruction. That's basic radio procedure regardless of the system.




The only point of the 'switch to MY frequency' phraseology is that you can skip the altitude check that you would do with a new controller.

I hadn’t meant to exclude the Call Sign, just to say anything after that indicates you did it. It’s a couple paragraphs before, not chapters, 4-2-1 b. and I agree completely, it’s very important. Just skipping the altitude doesn’t save any verbiage when you substitute it with a frequency. It’s dropping the Facility ID that does that.

 

[Timbeck2]

ATC, Bugsmasher 123, ready for blastoff runway 32

I had an H-60 say that very thing a few weeks ago. Since he was departing from an uncontrolled area, we are required to say "departing from (insert area here) will be at your own risk" or "proceed as requested, use caution." but what I said was, "blastoff from the North ramp will be at your own risk." The guy acknowledged while laughing; I guess he wasn't expecting a reply in kind.

I don't mind anyone saying "with you" , just don't say "be advised" or I'll give you penalty vectors. I hate that useless phrase.

 

[Salty]

I had an H-60 say that very thing a few weeks ago. Since he was departing from an uncontrolled area, we are required to say "departing from (insert area here) will be at your own risk" or "proceed as requested, use caution." but what I said was, "blastoff from the North ramp will be at your own risk." The guy acknowledged while laughing; I guess he wasn't expecting a reply in kind.

I don't mind anyone saying "with you" , just don't say "be advised" or I'll give you penalty vectors. I hate that useless phrase.

Be advised that I am with you.

 

[luvflyin]

Be advised that I am with you.

AAGGGHHHH!!!!! Noooo, not ‘be advised’. That’s my fingernails screeching on chalkboard

 

[IK04]

The controller is working two different sectors. You are about to go out of radio range and they want you to shift to one in your area. See that in Atlanta a lot on slow days/times. Bugsmasher 123 - level 4,500 is all I do.

That seems like the most logical reply. Doesn't the controller's comm panel have a little green light that comes on to show the receiving frequency?

 

[luvflyin]

That seems like the most logical reply. Doesn't the controller's comm panel have a little green light that comes on to show the receiving frequency?

every place I worked did

 

[bnt83]

controllers here say "change to my frequency"

 

[Timbeck2]

controllers here say "change to my frequency"

Controllers everywhere should say that. And yes, there are flashing green lights for transmit and receive for the frequencies.

 

[IK04]

When I was a student pilot and for most of my training, I was a member of a club that had a large population of ATC controllers from towers, TRACON and Oakland (now NorCal) Center. I got to visit several facilities and see them work. As an instructor, I always made sure my students got to see ATC in action as well as FSS and weather guys...

I always have, and still do consider it an advantage to know the best practices when communicating with the folks on the ground. I've even gotten better service from controllers because I didn't have to play twenty questions with them and I could tell they appreciated it...

 

[lancie00]

Thanks to everyone and yes, I'm sure the controllers said "Change to my frequency..." I just couldn't remember the exact terminology when I made the post.

 

[Palmpilot]

...Oakland (now NorCal) Center...

Oakland Center is still Oakland Center. NorCal Approach is a combination of the former Bay Approach and some other TRACONs.

 

[Velocity173]

Thanks to everyone and yes, I'm sure the controllers said "Change to my frequency..." I just couldn't remember the exact terminology when I made the post.

Being it’s the title of the forum, and since the POA admin never make mistakes on ATC phraseology, that’s probably what the controller said.

 

[deyoung]

You already confirmed you heard him and he's confirmed you heard the frequency correctly before you made the change (no corrections). He heard you both times. Now you're going to say "I'm here"? As if there was any doubt from the first two times you confirmed it?

If you never transmit on the new frequency after switching then you have not demonstrated that you still have two-way communication established.

 

[dmspilot]

I don't mind anyone saying "with you" , just don't say "be advised" or I'll give you penalty vectors. I hate that useless phrase.

Too bad you weren't at my home field this weekend when I heard this (names changed to protect the guilty):
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 five miles South to enter left downwind runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 left downwind runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 left base runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 final runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 clear of runway 3"

 

[SkyDog58]

Too bad you weren't at my home field this weekend when I heard this (names changed to protect the guilty):
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 five miles South to enter left downwind runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 left downwind runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 left base runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 final runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 clear of runway 3"

What an idiot. He forgot “Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 taxi to parking.” I can see why it bothered you.

 

[weilke]

I don't mind anyone saying "with you" , just don't say "be advised" or I'll give you penalty vectors. I hate that useless phrase.

That's just something that bleeds over from public safety radio. While its not an official 'proword', it is in common usage to indicate information that is not part of a normal dispatch message and that you don't expect the receiving party to read back to you: 'Ambulance 608, you are going to 13005 St Peters Church Rd for a 40 year old patient with chest pain. Be advised, the sheriffs department reports flooding on Bumpy Oak Rd and there are horses on the loose in the area.' The readback is: '608, 13005 St Peters Church for chest pain' rather than the entire string.

 

[Palmpilot]

Too bad you weren't at my home field this weekend when I heard this (names changed to protect the guilty):
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 five miles South to enter left downwind runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 left downwind runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 left base runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 final runway 3"
"Podunk Traffic, be advised Cherokee 123 clear of runway 3"

Maybe someone said "Any traffic in the area please advise" just before that.

 

[IK04]

Oakland Center is still Oakland Center. NorCal Approach is a combination of the former Bay Approach and some other TRACONs.

D'oh! (I use that on the radio,too!)

Bay Approach... Duh. You can tell I haven't flown there since 1981...

 

[Dave S.]

The phraseology I usually hear is "change to my frequency 119.xx"


Ditto.

That is the correct ATC phraseology.

 

[N1120A]

When I get a "change to my frequency," I just call up on the new frequency "6FT is up on xxx.xx" Saves a transmission. I most often get that when flying North of RZS and Santa Barbara approach usually has one controller working both sectors north of KSBA, or when talking to Bakersfield approach, which almost always is the same person on both 118.8 and 118.9

 

[BryanAV8R]

Yes, I think it is same controller but they want to change frequency. Perhaps movement to a new RCO or something like that?

Exactly. Going out of range of the ground station, and the controller was working multiple frequencies and you were moving in range of the next ground station along your path.

 

[chartbundle]

Oakland Center is still Oakland Center. NorCal Approach is a combination of the former Bay Approach and some other TRACONs.

I'm late to the party here, but I was amused for the couple weeks they were Sierra approach(probably to compliment Cascades Approach up here in Oregon) I guess 'Sierra Approach Beech Sierra 342 Sierra Sierra landing Sierra Mike Foxtrot information Sierra' was getting a bit annoying.

 

[Palmpilot]

I'm late to the party here, but I was amused for the couple weeks they were Sierra approach(probably to compliment Cascades Approach up here in Oregon) I guess 'Sierra Approach Beech Sierra 342 Sierra Sierra landing Sierra Mike Foxtrot information Sierra' was getting a bit annoying.

At the Norcal TRACON seminar that I mentioned in another thread, the controllers said that they really hated the "Sierra Approach" name and petitioned to get it changed to "Norcal Approach."

 

[N1120A]

At the Norcal TRACON seminar that I mentioned in another thread, the controllers said that they really hated the "Sierra Approach" name and petitioned to get it changed to "Norcal Approach."

Wait, so they actually called all of Norcal TRACON "Sierra Approach?" That sounds horrible. Or was it just the part that served RNO and SMF?

 

[WannFly]

If they say “with me” they are going to hear “with you”

 

[WannFly]

Why say anything? Did the controller ask you to check in? Why clutter up the airway with needless chatter. Verify the frequency, before you change, change to 119.35 and keep going. Same controller so its not like you need to introduce yourself again.

No new heading, no new instructions.

Of course there was a new instruction, the instruction was to change to the other frequency, how would the controller know you heard it if you don’t acknowledge?

 

[MuseChaser]

When I was flying home yesterday from a great airport-with-a-diner down in PA, I picked up the TRSA Wilkes Barre/Scranton APP for flight following, and after a while they transfered me to the Binghamton folks as I headed north. When I switched frequencies, I listened for a bit to make sure I didn't step on anyone. I heard someone else call in, and an African American female ATC voice responded, "Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!! How ya doin'?" before continuing with typically helpful and efficient communications. Really sweet, and put a smile on my face. I love ATC with personality when there's no real time crunch. She was equally great with us, but to be honest I've pretty much NO bad experiences w/ ATC folks. The Rochester guys seem to be the least friendly, but they're still very good.

On our trip out, while with Wilkes Barre/Scranton, we heard them talking with another pilot. ATC asked the pilot for his location and he replied, and I quote, "Well, I reckon I'm about a couple miles away from (whatever he said...can't remember)... flying by dead reckoning, and don't got no GPS." Even my wife was amused.

 

[Rgbeard]

Why say anything? Did the controller ask you to check in? Why clutter up the airway with needless chatter. Verify the frequency, before you change, change to 119.35 and keep going. Same controller so its not like you need to introduce yourself again.

No new heading, no new instructions.

I vote against this approach.

If the controller assigns you a new frequency, and you acknowledge it, and change, I'd expect to check in on it as well, to establish positive communication on the new radio.

You were probably flying out of range on one radio, and he wants to be sure he still has communication with you.

That said, a nice and easy: "Bugsmasher 123X, level at ten thousand" does the trick.

 

[BrianNC]

On our trip out, while with Wilkes Barre/Scranton, we heard them talking with another pilot. ATC asked the pilot for his location and he replied, and I quote, "Well, I reckon I'm about a couple miles away from (whatever he said...can't remember)... flying by dead reckoning, and don't got no GPS." Even my wife was amused.

Love it. lol.

 

[Palmpilot]

Wait, so they actually called all of Norcal TRACON "Sierra Approach?" That sounds horrible. Or was it just the part that served RNO and SMF?

They were talking about the callsign that was assigned to the combined TRACON when it was first formed. This would not have included the RNO area because that is a relatively recent addition to the TRACON.