STARs

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

Ejection Handle Pulled
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
4,787
Location
New Bern, NC
Display Name
Display name:
El Conquistador
While on my IPC, I happened to ask my instructor about STARs. He suggested that I would not likely encounter them much with my type of flying, i.e. Not landing at Class B airports.
When flying small piston do any of you make much use of them? Looking at the literature it seems like they are for the turbine crowd. Is this something that I need to know more about?
 
It depends. Denver approach will give a STAR for an approach from the south or west to any of the reliever airports. From the east you may just get vectors. Houston may give a STAR or vectors to the relievers, haven't flown there enough figure out the whys/wheres. Anyway, fly to an airport near a Bravo and a STAR may be in your future.

All that said, STARs are usually pretty easy to follow by flying from fix to fix. Nothing to stress over.
 
In the 4 years since I got my rating, I’ve flown exactly 1. Coming back to Virginia from New Orleans a couple of months ago it was IMC around Atlanta and my fuel stop was on the east side of the metro area with nasty weather all around. They gave me a STAR to get me from the west side of Atlanta to the east. The flight terminated with an LPV approach to mins in heavy rain.
 
Last edited:
Seems to be rare but It varies with geography. There is a STAR heading into the Virginia Beach area given to light pistons coming in from south and west of the Raleigh area, even into a nontowered airport. Then there are the routings than are exactly the same as a STAR but the STAR itself wasn't mentioned.
 
Morgan3820 said:
While on my IPC, I happened to ask my instructor about STARs. He suggested that I would not likely encounter them much with my type of flying, i.e. Not landing at Class B airports.
When flying small piston do any of you make much use of them? Looking at the literature it seems like they are for the turbine crowd. Is this something that I need to know more about?
Click to expand...

Sounds like he's not comfortable with them.

Ive gotten them in my piston plane before, you are not ready for a checkride of you can't read and execute a SID and STAR.

I'd off the cuff say half only are not used for non JET aircraft, maybe 20-30% are only for turbine, lots still also apply to piston planes.
 
Morgan3820 said:
While on my IPC, I happened to ask my instructor about STARs. He suggested that I would not likely encounter them much with my type of flying, i.e. Not landing at Class B airports.
When flying small piston do any of you make much use of them? Looking at the literature it seems like they are for the turbine crowd. Is this something that I need to know more about?
Click to expand...
Yes, for the "turbine crowd" into places such as LAX. But, in the SoCal area they are used for many Podunk airports as well.
 
Depends on your location. I’ve never gotten a STAR flying into airports in the NE, mid Atlantic and Midwest. I’ve flown pistons into JFK, LGA, EWR, BOS, CLE, IAD, CLT, PHL, PIT, BWI.
 
I flew a STAR last night KSGF -> KIXD, but I filed for it under /A
 
I was given a STAR into KVNY (Van Nuys ILS Rwy 16R) on a training flight in a Cessna 172.
 
jordane93 said:
Depends on your location. I’ve never gotten a STAR flying into airports in the NE, mid Atlantic and Midwest. I’ve flown pistons into JFK, LGA, EWR, BOS, CLE, IAD, CLT, PHL, PIT, BWI.
Click to expand...
I’m guessing you meant to qualify that you don’t get STARS while flying a slow, low altitude airplane to those areas.
I’m certain you get them nearly 100% of the time in the jet..??
 
Every STAR I've ever seen for the airports I've gone into ALWAYS had crossing altitudes way higher than what I'm flying or a note that says something to the effect of "TURBOPROP and TURBOJET only" or something similar.
 
We operate both a Citation and a Cessna 340 out of KADS. I file and get SIDs and STARs in both airplanes.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Seems to be rare but It varies with geography. There is a STAR heading into the Virginia Beach area given to light pistons coming in from south and west of the Raleigh area, even into a nontowered airport. Then there are the routings than are exactly the same as a STAR but the STAR itself wasn't mentioned.
Click to expand...
The Drone 2. It gets used, but very sporadically and I haven’t been able to figure out a rhyme or reason. They only issue it maybe 10-20% of the time, and most of the time they clear you direct to your destination shortly after assigning the STAR.

Then there are times when out of the blue they’ll tell you to go direct DRONE and fly the Arrival, which is kind of silly since the procedure calls for radar vectors after DRONE.

But then Norfolk is a generally half-assed TRACON.
 
Stars.. AKA arrivals.

Low, slow flying aircraft unlikely to be issued a STAR. High speed jets almost guaranteed to get one if there is one published to that airport.
Now, the profile decent is another story of and within itself. Just don’t do it unless specifically cleared.
 
I get issued STARS all the time flying single-engine GA into the DFW area. It's great training for my instrument students.

Also, realize that you will not get issued an RNAV STAR unless you have filed using the ICAO flight plan format AND properly selected the PBN code D2.
 
RussR said:
I get issued STARS all the time flying single-engine GA into the DFW area. It's great training for my instrument students.

Also, realize that you will not get issued an RNAV STAR unless you have filed using the ICAO flight plan format AND properly selected the PBN code D2.
Click to expand...
That’s a good point. I’ve been assigned arrivals going into FTW in a piston twin
 
RussR said:
I get issued STARS all the time flying single-engine GA into the DFW area. It's great training for my instrument students.
Click to expand...
Confirming this. Coming home to KDTO (class D airport) from middle to west Oklahoma, I'm given the GREGGS arrival. And coming back from Tulsa, Joplin, or Ft. Smith, I'm given the SASIE arrival.

From home from Houston, it's the DODJE arrival.

I say being familiar with the possible STARS for your destination, and having the appropriate plates at the ready for it, should always be part of your pre-flight planning and CRM setup.
 
RussR said:
Also, realize that you will not get issued an RNAV STAR unless you have filed using the ICAO flight plan format AND properly selected the PBN code D2
Click to expand...
For us piston pushers, if we have a WAAS box such as the GTN's, IFD's, Garmin _30W's, and CNX80/GNS480 and such, can we file as D2?
 
AggieMike88 said:
I say being familiar with the possible STARS for your destination, and having the appropriate plates at the ready for it, should always be part of your pre-flight planning and CRM setup.
Click to expand...
^^^^ That

As an instrument rated pilot, you should be capable of flying the STAR if you are given one. Yes, you can always say "unable" and hopefully get vectors but it is not good form. That's why we trained for the instrument ticket, we should be familiar with and competent enough to fly a SID or STAR any day.
FWIW, my DPE requested a STAR for my mock flight plan on my IR checkride.
 
Morgan3820 said:
While on my IPC, I happened to ask my instructor about STARs. He suggested that I would not likely encounter them much with my type of flying, i.e. Not landing at Class B airports.
When flying small piston do any of you make much use of them? Looking at the literature it seems like they are for the turbine crowd. Is this something that I need to know more about?
Click to expand...

I don't think your instructor is correct. You don't have to be landing at the Class B airport to be given a STAR, nor is there anything implied about turbine aircraft. Even if you are flying around a class B to a satellite airport you can expect a STAR. I have been given STAR or DP at Chicago and Detroit areas. Class C airports also have them. However, it may be true that you rarely fly the entire STAR as depicted. In the majority of cases you will be asked to fly to the main arrival fix specified in the STAR and then expect radar vectors from there. Its really not much to it, but it is better to be familiar with it rather than being caught off guard.
 
To me, having the STAR available and expecting it to be assigned, is a good thing.

Helps me know what is expected of me to transition from the en route to the approach environment. And be ready for what ATC is likely to tell me to do at a particular point.
 
AggieMike88 said:
For us piston pushers, if we have a WAAS box such as the GTN's, IFD's, Garmin _30W's, and CNX80/GNS480 and such, can we file as D2?
Click to expand...

BGRS, D2 is what I usually file. You can file more PBN codes (B2 and C2 and S1), but it won't make a difference in normal operations. Even putting the first "B" in there (meaning LPV capability) isn't going to help anything, but I do anyway - not sure why.
 
RussR said:
BGRS, D2 is what I usually file. You can file more PBN codes (B2 and C2 and S1), but it won't make a difference in normal operations. Even putting the first "B" in there (meaning LPV capability) isn't going to help anything, but I do anyway - not sure why.
Click to expand...
Thanks Russ.

Many RNAV SIDS/STARS have been added in the last few years. Nice to know I can now take advantage of them in the Skylane.
 
Last time I flew to KHQZ (south east of DFW) from Mississippi in my cherokee I was given the Fingr 5 arrival. I filed direct and that was thrown at me, no worries though. Must depend on the area and volume of traffic??
 
Definitely flying into Houston or Dallas Class B's expect STARS (or SIDS). They are really not a big deal, especially if you have a 430 or better GPS. But even if you just have a tablet they are easy (Garmin Pilot allows you to quickly load them based on the transition fix).

I always file a flight plan with them as part of the route - saves me time and I don't have an AP.

My only beef is that if you are not familiar with an airport or area, there is no intuitive way to know which STAR to expect other than their transition fixes, but if you are not familiar with the fixes you have to study the chart. It would be nice if they were listed by quadrants in the Class B.

Anyway, they are not an issue and I do recommend to file with them in your FP.
 
Stephen Shore said:
My only beef is that if you are not familiar with an airport or area, there is no intuitive way to know which STAR to expect other than their transition fixes, but if you are not familiar with the fixes you have to study the chart. It would be nice if they were listed by quadrants in the Class B.
Click to expand...

Actually...... what you desire has been part of FF for a few years now.

The procedure advisor shows you graphically which SID or STAR you might be given. And once selected with the transition fix, is easily added to your flight plan.

852F8C32-B9E6-458A-8837-5294BF18432F.jpeg
 
AggieMike88 said:
Actually...... what you desire has been part of FF for a few years now.

The procedure advisor shows you graphically which SID or STAR you might be given. And once selected with the transition fix, is easily added to your flight plan.

View attachment 64111
Click to expand...
Great tool! Unfortunately I can't use FF because they don't support Android. But hopefully Garmin Pilot might add that someday. Very impressive!
 
Seems like I usually get a star at busy airspace and when above 15k, but I think that varies by location. Frequently I never fly any of the star, about the time I get it loaded and briefed, they start vectoring me.

SIDS are more common in the Midwest, but they are typically very simple, fly runway heading until 400 feet then fly heading x, radar vectors.
 
Topper said:
Seems like I usually get a star at busy airspace and when above 15k, but I think that varies by location. Frequently I never fly any of the star, about the time I get it loaded and briefed, they start vectoring me.

SIDS are more common in the Midwest, but they are typically very simple, fly runway heading until 400 feet then fly heading x, radar vectors.
Click to expand...
Seems they are given to bugsmashers in the NE. I was given one leaving KDXR a few years back. Was not assigned a STAR though - might have been, but I canceled and arrived VFR because the route I was given IFR took me about 50 nm out of my way.

In fact I've yet to be assigned a STAR anywhere. It will probably happen sooner or later of course.
 
If you're based near a Bravo, you may fly them a lot.

I tend to be based at or near Charlies, and nearly never fly them. I've probably gotten less than a handful of SIDs and STARs ever. Ironically, the only time I've flown into a primary Class B airport (3 times at the same airport), I didn't get either.
 
Overall, it's less common to get STARs in piston aircraft, but as has been alluded in this thread, it's "regionally" common in some areas of the country for piston and turbine aircraft. In others, turbine only. Really depends.

You need to understand how to load them and fly them. Fortunately, that's generally pretty easy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top