Sport Pilot Certificate with DUI's

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bwally199

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Bwally199
This topic has been brought up many times as I have searched this forum endlessly to find correct information. Little background...

2 DUI Charges 1 in 2014 and one in 2017
The one in 2014 I blew but not sure the level (looking into it now but i am thinking .13)
2017 I did no blow and had my blood taken. I never saw the results or have records of the results. Both ended up being dropped to wreckless driving (not that I am any less guilty)

Now before I get lectured I take full responsibilty for my actions. In my late tennage years and early twentys I liked to party. I do not drink anymore.

Anyway I am interested in working towards my sport certificate. I have read the topics on this forum with answers from you can get it to no way. Does anyone have any real life experience with this?

I also have many other arrests on my record with the most recent (minus the DUIs) being when I was 18 years old. I am now 31. No drug charges just stupid stuff like tresspass, criminal michief etc. These have been forgiven and expunged by the courts. (Not that this matters either) I was a bad kid I know.. Not proud just honest.

Again I would really like to hear from someone that has real experience with this. Either by being in a similliar situation or maybe knowing someone. If you dont feel comfortable posting here maybe message me?

Thanks guys,
 
To medically qualify for Sport Pilot, it only requires that you have never been denied an FAA medical and that you currently hold a valid driver's license. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
SkyChaser said:
To medically qualify for Sport Pilot, it only requires that you have never been denied an FAA medical and that you currently hold a valid driver's license. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Having a denied medical in the past is not a problem if there was a successful application for a medical afterwards.
 
N.B there is a question as to DUI in IACRA on the sport pilot student cert. applicaton IIRC. I could be "out of date" because that's not my usual "lane".
 
Also note, that if you get a DUI while a sport pilot, you do have to make the 61.15(e) reports.
 
Yeah that means alcohol, too.
You need to stop drinking UTTERLY totally. Flying may not be for you.... :(.
 
bbchien said:
Yeah that means alcohol, too.
You need to stop drinking UTTERLY totally. Flying may not be for you.... :(.
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As mentioned in the original post I do not drink or have a desire to drink anymore regardless of getting my pilot license or not.
 
That's Good.......(but you know they aren't going to "take your word for it", right?)
 
bbchien said:
That's Good.......(but you know they aren't going to "take your word for it", right?)
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Man I heard you were the go to for this type of stuff but it doesn't sound like you are helping just putting me down.
 
bbchien said:
That's Good.......(but you know they aren't going to "take your word for it", right?)
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That's why I'm here asking the question. I am not going after my medical I am going after Sport Certificate. If there are things I need to do in order to get my sport certificate I will. But no one seems to actually know..
 
bwally199 said:
That's why I'm here asking the question. I am not going after my medical I am going after Sport Certificate. If there are things I need to do in order to get my sport certificate I will. But no one seems to actually know..
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@SkyChaser answered your question in post #3.
 
Half Fast said:
@SkyChaser answered your question in post #3.
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It seems that the FAA considers alcohol a depressant substance(as it is clearly from a pharmacological effect) and depending on how the reckless driving charges were defined I think that he may have to answer yes to the question from a technical standpoint. From a truthfulness standpoint that is up to him.
 
bwally199 said:
Man I heard you were the go to for this type of stuff but it doesn't sound like you are helping just putting me down.
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It's not him, it's the FAA. One of the things that make him unusually valuable as an AME is his willingness and ability to give people a realistic idea of what to expect from the FAA when applying for a medical. Those qualities helped me avoid some serious bureaucratic BS while I was working out some health issues.
 
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douglas393 said:
It seems that the FAA considers alcohol a depressant substance(as it is clearly from a pharmacological effect) and depending on how the reckless driving charges were defined I think that he may have to answer yes to the question from a technical standpoint. From a truthfulness standpoint that is up to him.
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What question? He’s not filling out a medical form for Sport Pilot.
 
Palmpilot said:
It's not him, it's the FAA. One of the things that makes him unusually valuable as an AME is his willingness and ability to give people a realistic idea of what to expect from the FAA when applying for a medical. Those qualities helped me avoid some serious bureaucratic BS while I was working out some health issues.
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The OP does not need a medical. He’s seeking Sport Pilot.
 
Half Fast said:
What question? He’s not filling out a medical form for Sport Pilot.
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I may be incorrect but the application he needs to fill out is identified above as he wants to have a "sport certificate" and the question is
"Za. Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances. "
 
bwally199 said:
Man I heard you were the go to for this type of stuff but it doesn't sound like you are helping just putting me down.
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Down side of the internet…and trying to do respond on a cell phone….comments and responses tend to be terse. Don’t take it personally, don’t read into a response more than what’s there.
 
douglas393 said:
I may be incorrect but the application he needs to fill out is identified above as he wants to have a "sport certificate" and the question is
"Za. Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances. "
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That doesn’t involve FAA medical, though, and there’s no rule AFAIK that will prevent him getting a SP ticket with a past DUI as long as he has a valid driver’s license.

And usually when the FAA means “alcohol,” they write “alcohol.” I don’t think the question on the SP application applies to alcohol offenses, but I don’t think it matters anyway. If he has a DL he’s good to go.
 
Half Fast said:
That doesn’t involve FAA medical, though, and there’s no rule AFAIK that will prevent him getting a SP ticket with a past DUI as long as he has a valid driver’s license.

And usually when the FAA means “alcohol,” they write “alcohol.” I don’t think the question on the SP application applies to alcohol offenses, but I don’t think it matters anyway. If he has a DL he’s good to go.
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I never mentioned medical in my posts, just the application questions. I do agree that usually they mention alcohol when they mean alcohol, and did not say he would not get approved. Just said my interpretation of the question is that alcohol is considered a depressant substance both pharmacologically and by the FAA. Never said he would not say he would not get his certifcate. As to whether a yes answer to this question would disqualify him I do not know. However, if he needs to answer yes based on FAA rules and answers no and is discovered he may lose more than his sport certificate. If it was me, I would consult with either someone in the FAA, AOPA legal services, or an aviation attorney to make sure I am answering correctly. As for my opinion, its worth what he paid for it.
 
douglas393 said:
I may be incorrect but the application he needs to fill out is identified above as he wants to have a "sport certificate" and the question is
"Za. Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances. "
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Yes this is correct. This is what I am confused about. I will call the FAA to verify.
 
bwally199 said:
That's why I'm here asking the question. I am not going after my medical I am going after Sport Certificate. If there are things I need to do in order to get my sport certificate I will. But no one seems to actually know..
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A lot of pilots have not exercised sport-pilot privileges, so I think there is a lot of confusion about it because of that. I exercised sport-pilot privileges for two years, and I found it necessary to read the actual FAA regulations carefully. However, since I had previously earned a private-pilot certificate, I'm not intimately familiar with the rules for obtaining a sport-pilot certificate.

While the application form linked above asks about substance-related convictions, it doesn't actually say whether those would be disqualifying for sport-pilot purposes. (Of course, if it prevented you from holding a current driver's license, that would be disqualifying for sport-pilot purposes.)

This FAA Web page gives a list of links to the requirements for sport pilot.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/sport_pilot

One of the links leads to this guidance document, which says, in part:

Eligibility requirements:​
​
An applicant for a student pilot certificate must:​
​
1. Read, write, speak and understand English, (if not, refer to AC 60-28);​
2. Be at least 16 years of age for airplane, gyroplane, airship, weight-shift control, or powered​
parachute (14 years of age for balloons and gliders);​
​
That's based on what 14 CFR 61.83 says. The guidance document goes on to say this:
​
Medical Eligibility:​
​
An applicant for student pilot certificate seeking sport pilot —​
​
Must hold either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license -- A person must hold and possess​
either a valid medical certificate issued under part 67 or a current and valid U.S. driver's license when​
exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges in a light-sport​
aircraft other than a glider or balloon.​

That's based on the portions of 14 CFR 61.3(c)(2) that are applicable for sport-pilot purposes.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/part-61#p-61.3(c)

I'm not a lawyer, but it looks to me like the answer to question Za would only be applicable if you were going to apply for a medical certificate, or if it kept you from holding a driver's license. (That doesn't mean you can leave the information out, however.)
 
bwally199 said:
Man I heard you were the go to for this type of stuff but it doesn't sound like you are helping just putting me down.
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That you don’t like Dr Chien’s answer does not diminish his knowledge.

fYI, 8710-2 (sport student pilot) has been cancelled. it appears Sport uses the same certificate as private pilots? Or none?
 
bwally, the trouble is that you have TWO. Not just one. I can't do anything about that. You can lie on the application if you want. But that's a felony. If you answer yes, that WILL SET THE GEARS in motion. This the same issue that a presidential son has, and lying on a federal application has consequences.

In the enabling legislation for sport pilot, Congress explicitly gave watch over the drinkers, in the legislation, to the FAA. So the question is on the sport pilot certificate application.

Not putting you down- just telling you like it is. If the federal administraytion had to choose between a guy with NO record and a guy with two hits on his record....who do you think they'd choose?

I totally get "asking over and over until you get the answer you want". Trouble is, the Federal administration does not work that way.
 
Are you talking about the FESSA legislation? If so, I thought that only covered BasicMed, not sport pilot.
 
Doesn't say controlled in there anyplace. It just sez "substance".
No distinction made between legal and illegal, either.
 
bbchien said:
Doesn't say controlled in there anyplace. It just sez "substance".
No distinction made between legal and illegal, either.
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Well, then I guess we’d better report everything we consume. you go first.
 
Nah. But the original poster has TWO DUIs and is asking if he has to check the box on the sport pilot application. He does....unless he wants to commit a "Hunter".
Dad gave me some very good counsel about 50 years ago- "Son, it's much easier to have no record that to try to correct a record". And I add to that:

And, Don't commit felonies on the way to getting what you want. Even the presdient's son isn't gonna get away with it. Then, try getting any sort of job/apartment/etc with that on your criminal background check.
All you are doing is making it very easy for someone else to discretionarily ruin your life.

'Course, it would have been easier to never have gottent the record.....
And, No, the FBI fingerprint database NEVER expunges.....no matter what any state license attorney might say...
(I'm thinking the O.P. didn't like what I had to say- but that's the way it is).
 
bbchien said:
Nah. But the original poster has TWO DUIs and is asking if he has to check the box on the sport pilot application. He does....unless he wants to commit a "Hunter".
Dad gave me some very good counsel about 50 years ago- "Son, it's much easier to have no record that to try to correct a record". And I add to that:

And, Don't commit felonies on the way to getting what you want. Even the presdient's son isn't gonna get away with it. Then, try getting any sort of job/apartment/etc with that on your criminal background check.
All you are doing is making it very easy for someone else to discretionarily ruin your life.

'Course, it would have been easier to never have gottent the record.....
And, No, the FBI fingerprint database NEVER expunges.....no matter what any state license attorney might say...
(I'm thinking the O.P. didn't like what I had to say- but that's the way it is).
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Can’t agree. If you consider alcohol a reportable substance (not controlled or illegal, your words), then you must report every substance you consume. It doesn’t say squat about DUIs. You can’t just add that requirement because you think it should be there, or that you think this person shouldn’t be flying.
 
douglas393 said:
It seems that the FAA considers alcohol a depressant substance...
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I'm not arguing for or against. But me, not being a medical professional, I do not think of alcohol as a depressant. Because the list says A, B or depressant or stimulant drugs, I am led to believe they're talking about pills or injections. Parsing the English, I come up with A, B or (C or D), with C and D being opposites. Regardless of any bodily influence, I don't consider alcohol to be the opposite of a stimulant drug, unless you're also including all social drugs, for example, caffeine as a stimulant.

Again - not arguing for or against, but recording my reaction to reading the question. If alcohol is meant to be included, the phrasing is misleading to me. Does the FAA have a document which tells the prospective sport pilot how to answer that question?
 
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