My father has a 1958 cessna he would like to sell to pay medical bills. My wife and I are trying to help him. We have discovered the plane is basically junk becauses it's been sitting outside and not flown for 30 years. We listed it on barnstormers as a project plane and have had a few offers. What I would like to know is how to go about selling this? My dad is starting to be less "mentally there" so we're wondering if ownership should be transferred to us now and if so, how do we go about doing this or is he able to sell with us assisting the sale while he is laid up? We're sort of lost as to what needs to be done. I've started reading about title transfers and FAA forms and I need some direction please. This whole world and community are new to us. It's taken me two weeks to figure out what interested buyers want to know about a plane and after tons of research, log book and paperwork collecting,etc. we're still lost here. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Soon to be inheriting plane from sick parents- need help
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denverpilot
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If it's been outside for 30 years, un-flown, it most likely is only worth its weight in scrap metal. I'm just being honest here.
Kritchlow
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Yup... and you may have to pay to haul it away.
Aircraft transfer paperwork is handled by an FAA "Bill of Sale". There should be two pieces of FAA paperwork in the airplane. Those are important, don't throw them away. Leave them in the airplane. See if you can find the engine and/or aircraft logbooks. Owners typically don't keep these in the plane, but they could be there. See if you can find the keys. Your best bet is to find a mechanic on the field and have him look at the plane and ask him if it has any value. It might. It might not. Call around and find an aircraft salvage yard in your area and ask them about selling it to them for parts.
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Rushie
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I've found selling an airplane easier than selling a car. Basically, you send the paperwork into the FAA. You get the form from the FAA in OKC or go to a local flight service station. You need a bill of sale which you just type up noting the plane's description and tail number, date, sales price, and signed by buyer and seller. I would not bother getting it transferred to you. If your dad can manage to sign a piece of paper, he can do it, or, if you have set yourself up as his power of attorney, you sign for him. If you haven't done that yet, now is a good time.
Our tax accountant says it's a good idea to report the sale of a plane to the IRS when you do your taxes, even if you don't make money on the sale, just to make sure the IRS knows you did away with it without profiting to avoid the question in the future. Somehow I don't think this will be an issue in this case.
Our tax accountant says it's a good idea to report the sale of a plane to the IRS when you do your taxes, even if you don't make money on the sale, just to make sure the IRS knows you did away with it without profiting to avoid the question in the future. Somehow I don't think this will be an issue in this case.
SkyDog58
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OP. Where is it located? Maybe someone here who is close would volunteer to help.
Sorry to hear about your father.
Sorry to hear about your father.
RJM62
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It might be something a pilot who is also an A&P might be interested in, or possibly an A&P school.
Realistically speaking, however, restoring the airplane to practical and legal airworthiness would be quite a project at best, and maybe impossible at worst. Even getting a ferry permit would take some work. If you've had offers, I'd be inclined to take the best one.
It's all a matter of economics. Unless it's a wreck, it probably can be restored to legal and practical airworthiness. But the cost of doing so would be considerable. There are only so many pilots interested in a project like that.
Sorry about your dad.
Rich
Realistically speaking, however, restoring the airplane to practical and legal airworthiness would be quite a project at best, and maybe impossible at worst. Even getting a ferry permit would take some work. If you've had offers, I'd be inclined to take the best one.
It's all a matter of economics. Unless it's a wreck, it probably can be restored to legal and practical airworthiness. But the cost of doing so would be considerable. There are only so many pilots interested in a project like that.
Sorry about your dad.
Rich
Stewartb
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What model Cessna? How the market views a 180 project may be very different than a 172.
FAA forms are simple. bill of sale and application for registration for the new owner. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/selling-an-aircraft
Beware of buyers trying to low-ball the price. A project plane isn't as valuable as a restored airworthy airplane but there's still value there. You haven't provided nearly enough information to make any estimates. Does your dad have any pilot friends? Ask them for advice.
FAA forms are simple. bill of sale and application for registration for the new owner. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/selling-an-aircraft
Beware of buyers trying to low-ball the price. A project plane isn't as valuable as a restored airworthy airplane but there's still value there. You haven't provided nearly enough information to make any estimates. Does your dad have any pilot friends? Ask them for advice.
paflyer
Final Approach
Why would you do that? Do you report the sale of a car? The only time you'd do that with an asset is if you have been depreciating it or claiming a deduction.
paflyer
Final Approach
Great suggestion. OP can post general location and any POAr nearby can PM for details.
Checkout_my_Six
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where is it located?....some here could be willing to help you out with the process.
Rushie
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Yes you are right, come to think of it, we were depreciating it in prior years. Nevermind.
James331
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What type of Cessna means a lot here.
Also get your dad to sign it over ASAP, not sure if you've delt with probate or any of that nonsense, but it's waaaay better to just sigh things over now and bypass the courts later, if that's the way it looks sadly like it's going.
As for the people who say it's junk, lol
Same folks say if you don't fly your plane often it's junk, those same people won't buy a 70s airframe with 10,000hrs on it, logic isn't strong there.
Much depends on how it was left, where it is, if it's outside in a undercover area, etc etc. Long and short, you won't have enough to make a educated opinion on what you should do with it, till someone takes a look at the plane and the market for that model.
Also get your dad to sign it over ASAP, not sure if you've delt with probate or any of that nonsense, but it's waaaay better to just sigh things over now and bypass the courts later, if that's the way it looks sadly like it's going.
As for the people who say it's junk, lol
Same folks say if you don't fly your plane often it's junk, those same people won't buy a 70s airframe with 10,000hrs on it, logic isn't strong there.
Much depends on how it was left, where it is, if it's outside in a undercover area, etc etc. Long and short, you won't have enough to make a educated opinion on what you should do with it, till someone takes a look at the plane and the market for that model.
Thanks I checked around about scrapping it and it's a viable option. Do you know if there's paperwork involved that require my father to be there? He can sign forms but can't make it to the airfield/scrap yard.
Thank you this is helpful!
It's at buchanan airfield in concord, ca. Thank you for the reply.
It's a 1958 Cessna 172. It only has 1490 engine hours and 2200 airframe hours but it's been sitting so long outside at a tiedown. My dad has run the plane and taken "preventitive measures" to protect the engine and such but its still been sitting for so long
Thanks James. It's been sitting outside uncovered since the purchase in 1989. It's been run and preventative measure have been taken to protect the engine but still....I'm learning from the aviation community lots needs to be done to make this airworthy. I will have my dad sign over for sure...I'm just having a hard time figuring out which forms I need.
Yep and aluminum scrap isn't probably even going to net that much these days.
Anyhow, to answer the question, download this form (bill of sale):
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/form/ac8050-2.pdf
and this one (registration):
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/
Have them filled out, signed, and submitted to Joklahoma City as per the instructions that come with them.
denverpilot
Tied Down
If... the engine really has been taken care of properly, there's a chance someone might want a project airplane, just to be fair about this. It really depends on the condition of a number of things.
I'd start with finding a mechanic for that specific aircraft type that comes with a good referral and pay them for an opinion and general inspection.
I have a feeling you won't get good news, but if you feel it's worth a few hundred bucks to make sure, that's up to you.
California -- you know how pricing there is higher on most things... aircraft maintenance and what-not follow that pattern. You could spend a lot more than the aircraft is worth.
As James said, this is VERY dependent on the EXACT model of aircraft. SOME Cessnas are in higher demand than others. What type is it?
James331
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If this is true, it would be silly to throw that money in the trash can by scrapping that plane.
Not sure what your time is worth, but I'm not nearly rich enough to even debate selling something like that just for its weight it aluminum until I had a VERY negative opinion by a mechanic, or two.
1600vw
Pattern Altitude
You can not down load form 8050-2 it must be original from the FAA. They will need to go into their local FSDO to get this or maybe someone has one at the airfield. I would ask in at the FBO office.
If that 172 has chrome cylinders you may be ok if has indeed ran this over the years. When I came out to my hangar, this was in a hangar, but there was a 172 that sat for over twenty years. One day I come out and an A&P had her running. A week or so later she was up and flying.
You may check into donating it as a tax wright off. I am sure others here can chime in and say if this is a good idea or not. I am just trying to help with some idea's. Again all this really means nothing compared to your father. I am so very sorry. May our Lord watch over you and your family during these very tough times and bring you nothing but piece during these times..In Jesus I pray......
Tony
hindsight2020
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What's the salvage value of a 58 172 not moved since 1989? 5, 10 amus? No idea, just wondering out loud what the opportunity cost of the hassle for even entertaining this affair by an aviation illiterate party is, for the benefit of the OP' s consideration.
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Meet the Fokkers
Pay up the insurance, and talk very loudly at a bar full of drunks about how some people keep keys in their airplanes around there.
Seriously though, sorry to hear about your father.
Good luck with everything.
Seriously though, sorry to hear about your father.
Good luck with everything.
Incorrect. The FAA has finally moved into the 21st century and obviated the need for the silly NCR form. You may use the PDF form, printed out twice, with original ink signatures on each. The buyer gets both and files one with the registration application.
Similarly, the 8050-1 can be filled out and a copy made to serve as the temporary registration.
And to answer the original question, it is a whole lot easier to do this while the owner is still alive. If the there are co-owners, make sure they all sign everything.
Shawn
En-Route
This is VERY common and typical "it is a plane so it must be valuable" storyline that plays out every day somewhere.
You getting it airworthy is most likely not going to be a very profitable endeavor as you may be finding out in its current condition.
Not sure why you need to transfer the ownership to yourself just to sell it if Dad is legally still mentally competent and can sign a release if you make the deal on his behalf.
I would take the best offer you can get in the current state it is in, have dad sign the release and get what you can for it otherwise you are gonna have more of a project and headache then you are bargaining for as a non aviation person IMO.
There has to be several aircraft mechanic shops at the airport. I would go talk to them and see if they have any viable options of folks that may be interested in making an offer.
You getting it airworthy is most likely not going to be a very profitable endeavor as you may be finding out in its current condition.
Not sure why you need to transfer the ownership to yourself just to sell it if Dad is legally still mentally competent and can sign a release if you make the deal on his behalf.
I would take the best offer you can get in the current state it is in, have dad sign the release and get what you can for it otherwise you are gonna have more of a project and headache then you are bargaining for as a non aviation person IMO.
There has to be several aircraft mechanic shops at the airport. I would go talk to them and see if they have any viable options of folks that may be interested in making an offer.
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James331
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Come on lol
There is a big difference between asking top dollar for this plane and giving it to a scrap yard, don't go trying to finger paint in black and white.
First he needs to have someone take a look at that plane and figure out what he has, then go from there.
Shawn
En-Route
Oh, I agree...but if they are selling the plane to raise money for medical expenses there is most likely gonna be a HUGE disparity in selling price of the 30 year old ramp rat vs a maintained and regularly flown plane of the same vintage that has been through an annual inspection each and every year.
Goofy
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Kenny Faeth in Sacramento is a good salvage yard.
Sac City College aeronautics program might use it?
denverpilot
Tied Down
Even in pristine condition, a 1950s Skyhawk doesn't bring much money compared to a typical medical bill. In average, flown, and maintained condition, it'll bring significantly less than the price of a typical new car.
The OP may be thinking airplanes are "expensive" and therefore it "must be worth something". Some are. Not an old Skyhawk that hasn't flown in two decades.
MAKG1
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If DVC has a use for it, transportation might be a whole lot easier....
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Somebody out there will want it for parts at the very least...
SkyDog58
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Curious if it is still registered. Did your father keep up with that?
Stewartb
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Regardless of how you pass it through, make sure to notify the FAA that your dad is no longer the owner. Just because you sell it doesn't always mean the buyer re-registers it. Don't be the one somebody comes looking for to square up a bill or a liability.
I called Kenny Faeth and he offered a small price. It's only $75 to get the plane appraised so I may do that just to see if it has any value beyond $2000.00. If not, to scrap it goes.
Yes he did oddly enough
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Somebody might buy it, put a television screen in the front and side windows and make a hell of a Sim out of it
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Four words. Durable Power of Attorney. You want it yesterday. If you don't do it in time you'll be dealing with one word, Guardian. And that's a really bad word.
Consider getting yourself a signer on their checking account. Then you can use that money to take care of them. Take them down to the bank and get yourself on their card. Lots of parents children are doing it this way. In many cases, thats all you need. Sorry about your problems.