Son wants to be a professional pilot

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Paul_Havelka

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Paul_Havelka
So my 17 year old high school senior has decided he wants to become a professional pilot. We live in northeastern oklahoma and yesterday he visited Riverside Flight Center for a little tour. One thing that my wife and I mandated of him was that he get his PPL via a part 61 first to ensure that he wasn't throwing money at something that he wasn't going to potentially enjoy. He's started his PPL and to help him build his credit and accelerate his training his mom and I just co-signed a signature loan to cover the cost of his private. I also started my instruction for my private and am hoping to get a m20 sometime next year. I would love for him to stay close to home and go to the local community college and then use whatever plane I ended up with to work on his IR and commercial but you know how teens can be, They know it all and are impatient. For those of you that fly for a living, what insight and suggestions would y'all give to an impatient kid?
 
Most of us are professional pilots here. He wants a flying career. He'll need patience, such careers don't come instantly. He better work on his grades and get into a four year aviation program if he really wants an airline job because he'll find it difficult with only an associates degree (both when it comes to the hour limits and when it comes time to compete for a job).
 
you had me at 'm20' but then lost me on 'community college'. NTTAWWT :)
 
Creekrat said:
...and to help him build his credit and accelerate his training his mom and I just co-signed a signature loan to cover the cost of his private.
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If this is going to involve loans for all flight training, I'd suggest another career. I know a few people whose 20s and 30s were consumed with that particular financial crisis.
 
flyingron said:
Most of us are professional pilots here. He wants a flying career. He'll need patience, such careers don't come instantly. He better work on his grades and get into a four year aviation program if he really wants an airline job because he'll find it difficult with only an associates degree (both when it comes to the hour limits and when it comes time to compete for a job).
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I agree EXCEPT, don't get an aviation degree. Get a degree in something that will put food on the table when that airline layoff comes around. Getting an aviation degree puts you in a position of not having many options when a down turn hits and you get layed off and your degree is in the industry you just got layed off from.
 
Be sure that he understands the difference between a commercial pilot and an airline pilot...both are "professionals." There are many, many jobs in aviation that do not involve the airlines, and the entry requirements for commercial pilot jobs are much easier to meet.

Bob Gardner
 
I would say your thinking is better than the churn and burn flight school. He'd come out with $70k loan debt and no degree but a job at an airline, but what happens if/when he gets laid off? Get a 4 year degree in something to fall back on, and he should be excited to use w/e plane you purchase to build time and train in and the costs will be much better than paying some bloated school 70g's.
 
First of all, good on ya, for not only supporting your son in the pursuit of his dream, but also on starting your own private!
Once you have a plane in the family, and he's faced with a "fly this for cheap, or go someone else and pay for it yourself" choice, it'll be hard for him to choose option B.
Hopefully he'll learn a lot about the process of flight training (how long things take, how much things cost) from going through the experience of getting the private. I think people have misconceptions and sometimes don't really "get" what flying entails until they really dive in.

Edit: I don't fly for a living.
 
Creekrat said:
For those of you that fly for a living, what insight and suggestions would y'all give to an impatient kid?
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Retired AF with two college graduates. The advice I’ll offer is a little different. Find a mentor for your son whose been down this path already. You may think it’s tough, but I’ll bet if you start asking people you know who they know that’s recently gone down this path. Let them have the conversations (with your guidance on areas of concern).

Has he considered AFROTC at Stillwater? They have crosstown programs at quite a few NE OK colleges and community colleges.

I’ll also second a college degree will be a requirement and it needs to be useful. STEM can be a great area; aviation studies generally is the basket weaving equivalent in the Aerospace/Aviation Department.

Finally, I’d rethink financing anymore than you already have. It some places it can double the cost of a college education.
 
flyingron said:
get into a four year aviation program if he really wants an airline job because he'll find it difficult with only an associates degree (both when it comes to the hour limits and when it comes time to compete for a job).
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I disagree, I am a retired pilot and my son is now a professional pilot. As soon as these young people get the time required for the airlines they are scooped up, degree or no degree.
 
Doc Holliday said:
How do you include yourself with that statement? Since when does holding a PPL make you a "professional pilot"?
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Try learning English. Professional doesn't mean "being paid to do something" though it is used that way in sports.
 
EdFred said:
No, loser. Now go play with your flying toy! :D

It's a good question though. Is a remote pilot a 'real' pilot?
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I've been teaching Part 107 classes recently and have accidentally referred to manned aircraft pilots as "real" pilots by mistake.

I have to go through the same planning and stuff as I did when I was manned only without going farther than line of sight. I'll take the title though!
 
JOhnH said:
That would make for an interesting poll question.
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We'd need to define "professional pilot". Perhaps "one who makes the greater part of their income flying actual pilot-carrying airplanes".
 
Ryanb said:
Depends how you define professional. One can fly airplanes in a professional manner without being paid to do so.
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I don't define it, the dictionary does. Your second sentence is true because being like a professional is not the same thing as being one.
 
Ryanb said:
That’s largely debatable.
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It isn't debatable. You're confused because professional could be used literally, or figuratively because it also means "like a professional."

Plus irrelevant in context. I'm pretty sure the OP didn't start the thread because his son wants to be a private pilot who wants to fly as a hobby while treating flying in a professional manner. Get real.
 
I would get an engineering degree (mechanical, electrical), which is always desirable if pilot thing doesn’t work out.
And airlines gotta love pilots who understand the complexities of a modern aircraft.


Tom
 
Yeah but profession could be related to “a calling” as well. Not necessarily a “vocation” or “employment.”
 
Creekrat said:
So my 17 year old high school senior has decided he wants to become a professional pilot. We live in northeastern oklahoma and yesterday he visited Riverside Flight Center for a little tour. One thing that my wife and I mandated of him was that he get his PPL via a part 61 first to ensure that he wasn't throwing money at something that he wasn't going to potentially enjoy. He's started his PPL and to help him build his credit and accelerate his training his mom and I just co-signed a signature loan to cover the cost of his private. I also started my instruction for my private and am hoping to get a m20 sometime next year. I would love for him to stay close to home and go to the local community college and then use whatever plane I ended up with to work on his IR and commercial but you know how teens can be, They know it all and are impatient. For those of you that fly for a living, what insight and suggestions would y'all give to an impatient kid?
Click to expand...

I don't think Part 61 vs 141 makes much difference, but it may be a bad idea to plonk down a bunch of money and enroll in an airline training program. I would let him get through the private/IR/Comm/CFI route and then look at options such as charters, cargo, or many other careers that do not involve flying for Part 121 carriers.

Sometimes in the future, airlines may move towards single pilot operations within our lifetime. That's something to think about as well.
 
I've taken stitches out myself, and left no scarring. I guess that makes me a professional doctor according to ron.

I've also represented myself in court and won. I guess I'm also a professional lawyer.

Once offered relationship advice to a friend. I guess I'm also a professional marriage counselor.
 
Thread drift here. It might be less expensive to fly airliners single pilot, but methinks salaries are miniscule compared to, say, fuel costs. Not saying it won't happen, but don't airlines hire first officers who. after sufficient tutoring by captains, move into the captain's seat. If the airliners are single pilot, where does the first officer get his/her tutoring/experience?

I don't know about costs of flying, and borrowing to go from ab inito to ATP, but the rule of thumb in college education is your total educational loan balance shouldn't exceed your expected first year of salary. (Repeat: loan balance NOT cost of education).

So, and I'm an engineering desk jockey and student pilot, you should try to minimize costs as much as possible, and try to pay as much as possible as you go. And I agree, you should get a 4 year degree outside Aviation Studies. Maybe mechanical engineer, and once you have that background, add an Aeronautical Engineering degree (more time in school) onto that.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah but profession could be related to “a calling” as well. Not necessarily a “vocation” or “employment.”
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The same could be said about the word "career" as well, OP's use was clear and did not need to be "corrected"
 
unsafervguy said:
I agree EXCEPT, don't get an aviation degree. Get a degree in something that will put food on the table when that airline layoff comes around. Getting an aviation degree puts you in a position of not having many options when a down turn hits and you get layed off and your degree is in the industry you just got layed off from.
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I agree and just want to add, a degree will help also if there is a loss of the medical. It can happen....very unexpectedly.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
We'd need to define "professional pilot". Perhaps "one who makes the greater part of their income flying actual pilot-carrying airplanes".
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To me the word is very contextual and in the context of this thread the word as used by the OP was in the context of being paid to fly. So a deviation from that very common definition or usage in this thread is pointless and only serves to confuse the issue.




Now, please act like a professional.
 
imo, look for a college with Air Force ROTC program and see what they offer. But definitely get a 4 year engineering degree.
 
I am not a Commerical or Airline pilot but my wife is. Her advice:
Get a 4yr non-aviation degree.
Use that degree to get a job and use that money to pay for the rest of the rating
This means little/no loans :)
Slower time to big leagues :(

We both believe that this boom period for pilot hiring will also get a wrench thrown in it within 10yrs. I don't know what that wrench is but if all you have is CPL or ATP it doesn't guarantee you $300K/yr in 2030.

I suspect within 10yrs they will start using more automation and get cargo/freight to single pilot. That frees up several slots. And who knows, maybe they will bump up the maximum age by 2yrs for 10 years or so. Throw in a major economic downturn, nasty recession and I gotta think things will get rough at least once within 10yrs. I sure hope I am wrong. Finally, he's just one medical away from perhaps never flying professionally again and that could be alcohol / drugs / some serious accident (once again I would never hope or wish that on him).
 
unsafervguy said:
I agree EXCEPT, don't get an aviation degree. Get a degree in something that will put food on the table when that airline layoff comes around. Getting an aviation degree puts you in a position of not having many options when a down turn hits and you get layed off and your degree is in the industry you just got layed off from.
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Right, didn't mean to say he needed an aviation degree. Get one on CS or something. The only reason I mentioned aviation program was the 1500 hour exception.
 
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