So why is it...

[Jay Honeck]

If I were Hartzell's CEO, my questions to my sales guy who brought this half-ass idea to the meeting would be:

1. What's the budget for this boondoggle?

2. How many people buy props as impulse items when they don't need them?

3. How many more props will we sell this year if we spend the money to sponsor this wacko deal at OSH? Wouldn't the people who need props buy them anyway?

4. How many customers who bought props last year wanted to feel them before they bought one?

Hey, if a software engineer could get the iPad's uber-lame operating system/file transfer protocol past Apple's board of directors, I'm sure a sales rep can get this idea past Hartzell's...

 

[wabower]

Nice try but no cigar. My iPad runs Foreflight flawlessly, and allows internet/email access. As a stand-alone aviation purchase it amortizes nicely. I put it in the plane and take it out to run the updates. Why do I care about the techie stuff that will never matter to me one way or the other? Given the relatively low cost and the incredible immediate benefit, I can't imagine how it could serve me better. If something else is better in two years, I'll write off the $10/month cost of the iPad and buy the better mousetrap.

Some people ***** about Windows software, now you're bitching about Apple's software. BFD. The fact that I had to wait for three weeks to buy my iPad, causes me to believe that a high percentage of users disagree with your opinion. Of the reviews I have personally heard/read from knowledgeable users (which by your own admission you are not) including the tech support guy who maintains my networks yours is the only condemnation. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy the iPad again.

Hey, if a software engineer could get the iPad's uber-lame operating system/file transfer protocol past Apple's board of directors, I'm sure a sales rep can get this idea past Hartzell's...

 

[Tom-D]

At least I can spell.

Even though you don't make sense

 

[Jay Honeck]

Nice try but no cigar. My iPad runs Foreflight flawlessly, and allows internet/email access. As a stand-alone aviation purchase it amortizes nicely. I put it in the plane and take it out to run the updates. Why do I care about the techie stuff that will never matter to me one way or the other? Given the relatively low cost and the incredible immediate benefit, I can't imagine how it could serve me better. If something else is better in two years, I'll write off the $10/month cost of the iPad and buy the better mousetrap.

Some people ***** about Windows software, now you're bitching about Apple's software. BFD. The fact that I had to wait for three weeks to buy my iPad, causes me to believe that a high percentage of users disagree with your opinion. Of the reviews I have personally heard/read from knowledgeable users (which by your own admission you are not) including the tech support guy who maintains my networks yours is the only condemnation. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy the iPad again.

The iPad does many passive things very well -- which is why I use it in the plane. It's an outstanding piece of kit for displaying charts, magazines, etc.

But it could be SO much more, were it not saddled with a dumb file transfer system that requires you to connect the iPad to a PC that is (in turn) loaded with iTunes before it can do much of anything.

This isn't just some esoteric, techie problem -- it truly hobbles an otherwise stellar piece of gear. Just TRY to delete files in order to make room for more charts. What should be a two second job (and is, on a Windoze or Android-based OS) is an absolute nightmare on the iPad, simply due to poor programming.

Rumor has it that Apple has a fix in their next OS release that will untether the iPad from laptops. THAT will be a welcome fix.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I just spoke to the maintenance group at Basler and asked him about installing the Cessna seat restraining unit while I'm out at Osh. He said they could not schedule routine work that week because they get real busy with emergency repairs. I did plant the bug in his ear that mayby they should look at extra staffing for that week and try to bring in some more work with things that can't be done at home. That is my problem, my home repair shop can't do the work to install the seat restraint and it's a pain to try to get the plane to another airport and leave it there for the several days it needs. I would be willing to pay a premium above and beyond what Cessna pays for the work just to have it done that week while the plane is there anyway.

Call up Airworthy Aviation at KSBM. It's not far (10-15 min plane ride) and they do good work for a great price. We've been taking three airplanes up there for annual for a few years now.

Oh, and even though our Cessna restraint went in for free, they still did their usual cleanup of the plane - Washed AND vacuumed, and I think they shampooed the carpets too.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The vendors are all there, selling stuff that needs to be installed. Why is NO ONE in the A&P world trying to empty those wallets?

That's what they do the rest of the year, and they're on vacation.

For openers, I would remind them that any work done in WI is subject to sales tax, while work done in TX can be totally exempt if done properly.

Not entirely true. In fact, if it's done the way Jay describes, only the prop is taxable, the work would not be. It's kinda like 135 vs. 91 - If I sell you the prop AND the installation service, the whole thing's taxable. If I sell you the prop and some other guy comes over to do the installation, the installation is not taxable.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Oh, and even though our Cessna restraint went in for free, they still did their usual cleanup of the plane - Washed AND vacuumed, and I think they shampooed the carpets too.

Wow! I would be buying those boys a case of Shiner Bock once a month, just to make sure they didn't get tempted to go work somewhere else. They are a true merit to the industry.

 

[wabower]

I'm so happy to get rid of all that other stuff in the cockpit that I don't have anything on the machine except Foreflight and a couple of other doo-dads. But if they make it better, I'll happily load whatever it is.

My only problem is that I gotta take Shook everywhere I go so I have somebody who can work the iPad. He takes up a lot of room and eats a lot, but he also provides lots of shade.

The iPad does many passive things very well -- which is why I use it in the plane. It's an outstanding piece of kit for displaying charts, magazines, etc.

But it could be SO much more, were it not saddled with a dumb file transfer system that requires you to connect the iPad to a PC that is (in turn) loaded with iTunes before it can do much of anything.

This isn't just some esoteric, techie problem -- it truly hobbles an otherwise stellar piece of gear. Just TRY to delete files in order to make room for more charts. What should be a two second job (and is, on a Windoze or Android-based OS) is an absolute nightmare on the iPad, simply due to poor programming.

Rumor has it that Apple has a fix in their next OS release that will untether the iPad from laptops. THAT will be a welcome fix.

 

[denverpilot]

Wow! I would be buying those boys a case of Shiner Bock once a month, just to make sure they didn't get tempted to go work somewhere else. They are a true merit to the industry.

That or the owner's kid was working that day, and the mechanics wanted him out of the shop.

If they ADVERTISE this service and do it on EVERY aircraft, then they're doing the industry proud.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm so happy to get rid of all that other stuff in the cockpit that I don't have anything on the machine except Foreflight and a couple of other doo-dads. But if they make it better, I'll happily load whatever it is.

My only problem is that I gotta take Shook everywhere I go so I have somebody who can work the iPad. He takes up a lot of room and eats a lot, but he also provides lots of shade.

Well, I don't eat as much as I used to, and I've lost 7 gallons of 100LL in the last 6 weeks...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

That or the owner's kid was working that day, and the mechanics wanted him out of the shop.

If they ADVERTISE this service and do it on EVERY aircraft, then they're doing the industry proud.

They don't advertise it - They just do it. We're up to about a dozen annuals done through them now, with damn good reason.

OBTW, the other thing they did when our planes went in for the first time was to collect all the "stuff" that was floating loose around the baggage compartment, and put it into a box. Made things much neater back there. When the boxes wear out, they replace them. Makes it easier for them to clean the carpet back there, but also makes us a very happy customer!

Oh, and even with the three round trips each time (one in the plane being annualed, two more in the chase plane), we come out way ahead. Most of our annuals there cost about half what the cheapest annuals we've ever had at the home 'drome did, and they do better work.

 

[Henning]

I guess I don't get it, maybe because I've never been to OSH. What is the Hartzell display like? Do they have all these props exhibited and while you are walking by you say to yourself, "Ah ha! I want that one! Today." I don't picture props as being a spur-of-the-moment purchase like that. What would you save by having a prop installed there? Shipping?

Think of the biggest C-F of people and airplanes in one place. Over 10,000 airplanes parked over a few square miles of airport and it's either raining or hot as hell. I wouldn't have a prop installed or do any other type of work that was non emergency. Nor as a mechanic would I be wanting to do work at OSH, there's just too much stuff to look at. You go for vacation, not to work. Besides, I've not known Hartzell to be in the install business which means they'd have to take liability for a bunch of third party mechanics.

 

[kyleb]

No good deed ever goes unpunished, Kyle. Ask me about the shattered windshield on my courtesy car sometime...

Actually, it was a cheap screwdriver, the owner was a nice guy, and I was glad to help. It makes for a good story too. Besides, I think he bought the beer that evening.

If you see my plane at Oshkosh and wonder why one (but not all) of my tiedown ropes is greasy/oily/nasty, that goes back to the nighttime rope trick we did to fix a stuck valve on some guy's airplane at SnF a few years ago. ;-)