Should I got to medical appt?

N

Nonamepilot

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I am a student pilot who is about to solo. I filled out medxpress application and have an appt with doctor this coming week. I have been in recovery from alcohol and opiate addiction for 6 years. I have multiple DUIs from many years ago and other criminal history. I was wild when I was young. I have been seeing an addiction specialist who has prescribed Suboxone which I have been taking for approx 6 yrs. Other than prescribed suboxone, I have been completely clean from all other alcohol and drugs. I started flying at 14 yrs old and love aviation. Now that I own a small business and sobered up, I decided to finish my goal of becoming a pilot. After filling out medx application I got worried. Another member of Pilots of America pointed me towards this forum. Please help. I dont want to keep my med exam appointment and end up deferred or denied.
 
Turn your appt into a consultation until you get direction from either of the two AME in Aggiemike’s posting.
 
So FAA's view is that you can't be on suboxone. Your recovery has to be "independent" of any chemical assistance. So you're not considered recovered until you have proven sobriety for both substances, termination of Suboxone, for at least 6 months, adeuaqte documnetable recovery activities, and then the concurrence of a HIMS Psychiatrist and a HIMS Neuropsychologist.

We are talking 6 months of a private, random urine program, logged attendance at NA/AA, and the consultants (after the 6 months) are about $5,500 (not healthcare).

So soloing is not happening this year- the agency review time, once you have it all together is ~6 months. Not to discourage you-but the agency demands that you earn the privilege back and it is done EVERYDAY.
 
Bruce, could he switch into an LSA, solo it,than finish off a Sport ticket during the 6 months of no drugs and random screens?

That would keep him moving forward and wouldn’t be wasted, now that all Sport training can be applied to Private.

Just a thought...
 
bbchien said:
So FAA's view is that you can't be on suboxone. Your recovery has to be "independent" of any chemical assistance. So you're not considered recovered until you have proven sobriety for both substances, termination of Suboxone, for at least 6 months, adeuaqte documnetable recovery activities, and then the concurrence of a HIMS Psychiatrist and a HIMS Neuropsychologist.

We are talking 6 months of a private, random urine program, logged attendance at NA/AA, and the consultants (after the 6 months) are about $5,500 (not healthcare).

So soloing is not happening this year- the agency review time, once you have it all together is ~6 months. Not to discourage you-but the agency demands that you earn the privilege back and it is done EVERYDAY.
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Thank you for your response! This is a lifelong goal and I'm not giving up. I was planning to taper off of the suboxone anyway. Once I'm off the suboxone, what do I need to do for documentation. Should I schedule another exam next year or is there something I need to do in preparation?
Since I haven't been to my medical or been denied, would it be okay to finish under light sport rules so I can at least fly?
 
If light sport is the way to go until I can take care of issues for medical, that's what I'll do. I'm almost done with online ground school and have already invested alot of time and money and dont want to quit flying.
 
Is it the FAA's intent with the light sport category to let pilots fly while still on excluded medications and especially controlled substances?

@bbchien ?
 
It is not their intent. However if there has been no3rd class denial, or application that did not result in issuance, the law gives the signing PCP authority to have signed off and to ignore at his own peril, the “do not issue do not fly list”.
 
I’m confused, how is a PCP related to LSA? You just meet medical requirements for your DL and “ know or have reason to know if you have a condition that keeps you from operating an airplane in a safe manner”. Am I missing something?
 
bbchien said:
It is not their intent. However if there has been no3rd class denial, or application that did not result in issuance, the law gives the signing PCP authority to have signed off and to ignore at his own peril, the “do not issue do not fly list”.
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Bruce, are you thinking of Basic Med? AFAIK, for Sport a pilot could be legal without ever seeing a doctor in his life. Where would a PCP sign off for Sport?
 
Half Fast said:
Bruce, are you thinking of Basic Med? AFAIK, for Sport a pilot could be legal without ever seeing a doctor in his life. Where would a PCP sign off for Sport?
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agree ... sport pilot may be the way to go but liability would be upon the pilot in case of injury to others.
 
I misread the post immed. prior (9:27) to my last as Basic med.

If LSAs fills his needs he should just go that way, and he should NOT go for a medical.
 
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Bruce and Lou, if the OP were to, with direction by his/her physician, come off of the Suboxone with good results and stay that way for say, 24 months, would you say his/her chances were good to get the medical assuming the cost not being prohibitive?
 
I dont want to spend my life savings to get a medical, but I would be willing to pay for consultation, psych, drug screen, etc if I could eventually have the option to do private, instrument, twin. I own a business and dont plan to fly for a living. I'm also not going to fly if I would be endangering myself or others. The sport option is not so I can avoid a medical altogether and fly while intoxicated. I'm not an idiot! The plan is to keep flying while I'm doing what the FAA requires to eventually acquire a med cert. Any input is greatly appreciated! Including constructive criticism!
 
One potential issue for sport pilot candidates is finding an SLSA to rent and an instructor close to you. If you can afford to purchase an airplane that qualifies as light sport, that solves half the problem leaving only finding an instructor (CFI or CFIS) willing to train you in your plane. There are CAR 3 and FAR Part 23 certified airplanes that qualify as light sport, and some of these like qualifying Ercoupe models are reasonably priced.

I'm a private pilot who flies an LSA by choice as it satisfies 95% of my mission requirements and is less expensive to own and operate than Skyhawks or Cherokees.
 
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Nonamepilot said:
I dont want to spend my life savings to get a medical, but I would be willing to pay for consultation, psych, drug screen, etc if I could eventually have the option to do private, instrument, twin. I own a business and dont plan to fly for a living. I'm also not going to fly if I would be endangering myself or others. The sport option is not so I can avoid a medical altogether and fly while intoxicated. I'm not an idiot! The plan is to keep flying while I'm doing what the FAA requires to eventually acquire a med cert. Any input is greatly appreciated! Including constructive criticism!
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What's your mission? Decide first what type of flying you will want to do. If you're just planning daytime VFR with no more than one passenger, Sport might be all you'll ever need.
 
Nonamepilot said:
sport option is not so I can avoid a medical altogether and fly while intoxicated. I'm not an idiot! The plan is to keep flying while I'm doing what the FAA requires to eventually acquire a med cert. Any input is greatly appreciated! Including constructive criticism!
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Yes, sport pilot or flying gliders can keep you flying while working out the medical issues, as long as you can self certify safety as you state. As Dr. Chien noted, it will require some time todo all the testing and consultation to get the 3rd class medical. You can start on that now in consultative mode.

Definitely do NOT go and give the MID number from the MedExpress application to an AME to activate the application until the consulting senior HIMS AME is sure it will succeed. And it will cost as Dr. Chien suggested.
 
Question for the OP, out of curiosity. Did your flight instructor know of theses issues? If they did, it seems like they should have advised about the difficulty in obtaining a medical early on.
 
To answer a couple questions.....

I would like to eventually own a single or twin large enough to take family and friends traveling. Bonanza or Baron has always been a dream of mine to own. I will most likely have a LSA for flying by myself. I will do what it takes to reach my goal!!!

My flight instructor did not know all of the details but only because I personally didn't know it would be this difficult. Didnt think I needed to disclose that much info. I guess I just figured after a few years being a responsible citizen that I would be able to get my license. My fault for not doing more research. Family member is a sport pilot and didn't do a medical. Just had no experience or have any idea what to expect. I'm glad I disclosed some of my past to another pilot who directed me here.

I wish CFI's in general would at least ask more questions and give students a heads up of what to expect. I've already invested about $6k.

Once again...thank you all for your responses and questions.
 
Absolutely do NOT go and get a flight physical done. I have very similar history to you. Opiate addiction have been off all medications and in recovery for over 4 years now. I have been in HIMS monitoring for over 3.5 years and have had all the evaluations done. Every HIMS professional I saw said they had no doubt I would be given a medical certificate. The FAA denied my request for a special issuance medical certificate and now I don’t know what to do. I’m still in monitoring but have no idea if I should continue or not. I’ve spent so much time, money and effort and partly wish I never tried to become a pilot. Be extremely careful when you get off the suboxone. I tapered down to less than .25 milligrams a day and I still had terrible withdraw when I discontinued that small of a dose. 100% fly light sport for the next couple of years while you start a random drug testing program so you can start to prove abstinence to the FAA
 
Stilltrying said:
Absolutely do NOT go and get a flight physical done. I have very similar history to you. Opiate addiction have been off all medications and in recovery for over 4 years now. I have been in HIMS monitoring for over 3.5 years and have had all the evaluations done. Every HIMS professional I saw said they had no doubt I would be given a medical certificate. The FAA denied my request for a special issuance medical certificate and now I don’t know what to do. I’m still in monitoring but have no idea if I should continue or not. I’ve spent so much time, money and effort and partly wish I never tried to become a pilot. Be extremely careful when you get off the suboxone. I tapered down to less than .25 milligrams a day and I still had terrible withdraw when I discontinued that small of a dose. 100% fly light sport for the next couple of years while you start a random drug testing program so you can start to prove abstinence to the FAA
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Thank you so much this saves me lots of time and energy. I have some other questions for you best done directly. Would you mind exchanging emails? I'm not sure how to message you?
 
I know this thread is old but I am in the same predicament now. Just got off of suboxone. How long will I need to stay off suboxone in order to successfully get my class 3 medical? How do I get in contact with a HIMS without seeing an AME?
 
BlizzyB32 said:
I know this thread is old but I am in the same predicament now. Just got off of suboxone. How long will I need to stay off suboxone in order to successfully get my class 3 medical? How do I get in contact with a HIMS without seeing an AME?
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Pinging Doctor Lou, Doctor Bruce, @WingmanMed for their input. @lbfjrmd @bbchien
 
BlizzyB32 said:
I know this thread is old but I am in the same predicament now. Just got off of suboxone. How long will I need to stay off suboxone in order to successfully get my class 3 medical?
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6 months:
bbchien said:
So FAA's view is that you can't be on suboxone. Your recovery has to be "independent" of any chemical assistance. So you're not considered recovered until you have proven sobriety for both substances, termination of Suboxone, for at least 6 months, adeuaqte documnetable recovery activities, and then the concurrence of a HIMS Psychiatrist and a HIMS Neuropsychologist.

We are talking 6 months of a private, random urine program, logged attendance at NA/AA, and the consultants (after the 6 months) are about $5,500 (not healthcare).

So soloing is not happening this year- the agency review time, once you have it all together is ~6 months. Not to discourage you-but the agency demands that you earn the privilege back and it is done EVERYDAY.
Click to expand...

BlizzyB32 said:
How do I get in contact with a HIMS without seeing an AME?
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Call one?
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/media/hims independent medical sponsors.pdf
 
Oophf, that is a tough one. So much depends on your actual recovery and how well it is documented by the professionals involved. A HIMS AME has a lot of, I don't want to say control, but influence on when and how you move through the program. I can't accurately give you a time because it is impossibly to tell how well you will be doing off of suboxone.
 
Do you have to tell them you take suboxone when filling out MedXPress app?
 
What are the ramifications of not disclosing that you are currently taking that medication?
 
ConcernedStudent said:
What are the ramifications of not disclosing that you are currently taking that medication?
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That's what federal prosecutors refer to as a felony and the FAA refers to as certificate revocation. This would not be an immaterial omission. You would also commit a violation every time you flew while taking the drug.

Are you willing to take the chance on losing your certs and going to federal "pound me in the ass" prison"?
 
Will listing the medication on MedXPress result in immediate turn down and/or cause me complications down the road once getting off the medication? The only reason I ask is my instructor is requiring MedXPress Physical prior to starting training. If I need to get off the medication prior to starting training that is what I will do. I do not want it to hurt chances of getting private license.
 
Nonamepilot said:
I wish CFI's in general would at least ask more questions and give students a heads up of what to expect. I've already invested about $6k.

Once again...thank you all for your responses and questions.
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Many of them have no clue.

Plus, it is uncomfortable to sit down with a prospective student and ask the questions that need to be asked or to do a lecture that may not be appropriate to the person.
 
ConcernedStudent said:
Will listing the medication on MedXPress result in immediate turn down and/or cause me complications down the road once getting off the medication? The only reason I ask is my instructor is requiring MedXPress Physical prior to starting training. If I need to get off the medication prior to starting training that is what I will do. I do not want it to hurt chances of getting private license.
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If you reread this thread, your questions will be answered. What you really need to do is get a consult with a senior HIMS AME and come up with a plan to get you a medical certificate. It's not going to be quick.
 
If you tell the faa about your suboxone you’re going to be waiting at least 2 years for your medical, if they even give you one. If you get off the suboxone (extremely difficult) the faa would still want to be informed about and will still make you wait a very long time before a medical is issued. Most likely going to cost about $10,000. If you tell them.
 
ConcernedStudent said:
Will listing the medication on MedXPress result in immediate turn down and/or cause me complications down the road once getting off the medication? The only reason I ask is my instructor is requiring MedXPress Physical prior to starting training. If I need to get off the medication prior to starting training that is what I will do. I do not want it to hurt chances of getting private license.
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The CFI may be trying to help you avoid problems down the road with the medical, and a medical is required to solo.
 
Pinecone said:
Many of them have no clue.

Plus, it is uncomfortable to sit down with a prospective student and ask the questions that need to be asked or to do a lecture that may not be appropriate to the person.
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Not only that but there are Federal laws involved. As university faculty I often get “letters of accomodation” informing me that a student can ask for accomodations such as more time for exams, homework, recording lectures, etc. However I’m not allowed to ask why, and wouldn’t anyway. If it interferred with conducting class then I’m required to work with the university to come up with a reasonable option. The CFI is in an even more awkward situation. They are not under the same rules unless it’s a university program such as Embry Riddle or the aviation dept at my university (HIPPA and FERPA). So many just ignore the issue/hassles of what’s involved with a medical, and most probably don’t even know.

This is a definite failing of CFI training and the FAA probably won’t do anything to fix the problem because of HIPPA.
 
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