Short courses for IFR Certificate

fudge80

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fudge80
I know there are a lot of instructors or schools that advertise stuff like "10 days certificate guaranteed" or instructors that will come up to your airport and spend a couple weeks with you to get your IFR rating.

My brother and I are both PPL rated, about a year since we got our PPL's and he is thinking of doing one of these courses and was wondering if I was interested also.

I have the opinion that I would like to do it gradually as I think it will sink in more than if you just rush out and cram everything in a short period of time.

Those who have done it either way what are your thoughts? Are these short courses worth the time and money making you IFR proficient or is it just a matter of an easy way of getting your Instrument rating and its up to you to get better at it?(Yes, I realize you are always supposed to be getting better at it and learning in all aspects of flying)

Neither of our planes is set-up for IFR right now either, the instructor that taught us to fly has his plane ready for IFR training so I was going to do mine with him using a combination of his plane and mine for the training and his plane for the test.

Any thoughts?
 
The ten day programs ,work well for those that procrastinate ,get the basics down then do the intensive 10 days and take the test.
 
It gets it done. Dont expect to be able to go out and do hard IFR. But it gets you a license to learn. Best if the school is run by a DE.
 
All depends on your learning style. I did accelerated for both PPL and IFR because I would not have been able to get it done any other way with my schedule and I work better under pressure and can take things in like a fire hose...but both were extremely mentally and physically challenging.

I used PIC for my IFR and would do it again in a heartbeat.

I will say just as it takes a certain person that can excel under those conditions, it just as much takes an instructor and program that know how to teach and be effective in a condensed timeline. Make sure you go with a proven system, not just someone that says they can do it faster than the twice a week schedule.

With both PPL and IFR there are ticket mills out there...but there are just as many legit courses that will get you the same training and experience as a traditional program.

Assuming you are with a legit program, one of the down sides to any accelerated program is that you are limited to a weather window during your training. I was lucky in that that for both my PPL and IFR I had a very diverse weather during my training.

Knowing what I know now...if I had to do it over again...I would do the same exact thing again.
 
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Was the only way for me. I tried the "IR lesson every two weeks" and it was a complete failure. Wasted years on that approach (excuse pun). I would say if you're young and very good at retaining info, then you can spread it out. For us middle aged guys who have jobs and a family that might not always let us get the frequency we need, then it's a problem. And in my case - a memory problem. I can not remember the day of the week or anybody's name, so for me the only way is to cram it. That way I was immersed every day for 12hrs in IR stuff.
 
I did my IFR in 6 weeks. It would have been 5, but my instructor went to OSH.

I felt like I went too fast, but I have a thick skull and things to not get all the way into my brain as fast.

Get one of your airplanes IFR and be ready to do some flying with your brother to get totally comfortable. I would also do the 10 day course in your airplane that you plan to fly so that you are good with your platform. This is your life and your family's life on the line.
 
I'm flying 2-3x a week for my IR and its plenty for me to get down. Doing a ten day program would be super intense.
 
I did mine the traditional way but I read the Instrument Flying Handbook and Instrument Procedures handbooks cover to cover and took the written before I even started flying. Then I flew twice a day during the week and got it done in a month. Pretty good pace for me. Probably could have done it faster if my instructor had been available. I'm still learning IFR stuff. Never done learning stuff.
 
I did the PIC course. I actually did it in seven and a half days (the last half of the eighth day was filling out the IACRA etc...). A day off for good behavior and the last day was just the checkride.

I speak highly of it if you can take the material with a firehose. It was much better for me than trying to schedule things scattered out over the calendar.

Even if you decide to do it the "traditional" way, get a copy of Peter Dogan's book. Best book on the actual "flying" part of IFR that I've read.
 
Take a look at this thread, specifically post #10:

This is SPOT on. For those too lazy to click the link:

It depends on the student, and the student's commitment to both the training and flying a bunch right after the training is complete.

First, the training is incredibly intense. Most of my students say they were surprised by the level of intensity -- 8-9 hours a day, 10 days in a row, plus an hour or more of homework every night. If you do this on vacation, make sure you're off work for 14 consecutive days, because you'll probably need the other four days at the end to recover before going back to work.

Second, that which is quickly learned is as quickly forgotten unless as quickly exercised. In order to "fix" the newly/quickly learned material in your brain, you must fly one or two IFR hops a week for four to six weeks starting immediately after the practical test. If you don't, within a month, you'll be as though you never took the course (well, not quite that bad, but you certainly won't be ready to launch solo into the IFR system in real IMC).

Third, you'd better be proficient in the plane in which you will take your training. No trading your 172 on a Bonanza two weeks before the IR course, getting five hours transition training from your local CFI, and expecting the IR course to go well. This is especially true for lower-time pilots with no experience in anything but the simple trainer in which they got their 50 XC PIC who then bought something heavy and/or complicated and/or really different, and immediately try to get their IR in it. If you only fly 30 hours a year, and they're the same 30 hours year after year, you probably need a quick proficiency cram course (a commercial pilot flight maneuvers program would be about right) prior to the IR course.

Fourth, you'd better know the nuts and bolts of any IFR GPS or autopilot you have in the plane. While I can teach you how to fly GPS approaches in the normal course of training, the 10-day curriculum doesn't have enough time in it to teach you a Garmin 430 from scratch, no less one of the older, harder-to-use units. If all you know is "direct, enter, enter," it will add at least a day to the program. Add to PIC's daily rate your instructor's expenses for a day, and it's a whole lot cheaper to spend $150 or so and 8-12 hours on your computer with one of the good GPS training courses from Sun Flight Avionics or the like, and then try out your new knowledge on the free Garmin simulator before I get there. For the autopilot, knowing the manual on it is important, including its capabilities and limitations, and any required preflight operational check.

Fifth, you must be academically prepared. If your only IR ground training before the 10-day course is one of those 2-day written test cram courses, you won't know anything but the answers to the written test, and you will not be able to finish the IR flight course in ten days -- figure two to four days extra to learn all the material that would otherwise be learned in a real IR ground training course. I recommend any or all of the following, choice based on your own learning style (and whether or not you can sit still for Martha King):

• Formal IR ground school of 40 hours or so classroom plus home assignments (like those offered by many flight schools and community colleges)
• Self-paced computer based training course like Jeppesen's FliteSchool
• DVD course like King or others
• Book learning, using a good training manual like Bob Gardner's Complete Advanced Pilot or Bill Kersher's Instrument Flight Manual, and/or the FAA Instrument Flight Handbook and FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook

In addition, you should study the following books:

• Current FAR/AIM (especially the ASA version with the list of recommended FAR's and AIM sections for IR/CFII)
• FAA AC 00-6A Aviation Weather
• FAA AC 00-45F Aviation Weather Products

Finally, you must dedicate yourself entirely to the program. Don't just turn off your Blackberry -- leave it in the office. Explain to your family that this isn't a vacation, this isn't even work -- they can't expect you to participate in anything other than your training for the duration. Forget about catching up on your reading (other than IR training books) or email or internet chat. You will eat, sleep, and breathe instrument flying for 10 days, and if you clutter your mind with, or spend your time on, anything else, it won't happen on schedule.

With this preparation, you will find a program like PIC's productive and useful. You'll get real IR training, including sim training (which is highly useful in making the flight time more productive -- teach on the ground, practice in the plane), from a highly experienced instructor (PIC's average 8000 hours) with real-world IFR experience, and you will be well-prepared for actual IFR operations. You will also experience real IFR flying in real IFR weather -- something I consider invaluable, and something your local time-building CFI with no significant real IFR experience may not be comfortable doing. Without this preparation, you'll just end up tired and frustrated – and your instructor will, too, because s/he wants you to succeed just as much as you do.

I can say I had a few work crisis pop up during my training which would have normally been a non event but it dang near sank my IFR training with the distractions.
 
Despite that poadeleted20 worked for PIC I have to say I disagree with some of the drivel he spouts. Quickly learned DOES NOT equal quickly forgotten. There's no such educational theory (even the idiotic pablum the FAA crams down the throats of CFI students doesn't espouse that theory).

People who learned the slow and forgetful way aren't going to fare any better if they don't work at maintaining their skills than those who did it an efficient and time compressed manor.
 
Holy crap.... Reading that makes me wonder if I could pass that course.
 
Flying partial panel turns and VOR is most difficult part for me this far. I did well today on partial panel recovery from unusual attitudes.
 
Flying partial panel turns and VOR is most difficult part for me this far. I did well today on partial panel recovery from unusual attitudes.

For me, it was flying LPV approaches in continuous light turbulence. Did that yesterday. Yikes, that was nasty. Even trying to OK the missed on the 650 was difficult. At least it calmed down by the time I got to my home airport and flew that approach partial panel. This was check ride prep....
 
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Flying partial panel turns and VOR is most difficult part for me this far. I did well today on partial panel recovery from unusual attitudes.

In the 1960s you needed 200 hours to apply for an instrument rating, so everybody went from private to VFR commercial. Of course, the commercial license also has certain instrument flying requirements and the 141 school I attended included six hours in a Link basic trainer for VOR orientation. Every time I visit my logbook and see those six hours carried forward to the following page, I break out in a sweat all over again.

The thing was a wood box that smelled like an old tennis shoe somebody threw up in. The air leaked out of the bellows, so there was no trimming for hands-off flight. You never knew which way it would list toward next. The DG, if you can call it that, was of a sinister design that turned the opposite way of your intuition and only showed a small portion of the compass rose at a time.

If that wasn't bad enough, the sim instructor was a humorless woman who could barely conceal her contempt for anyone having the slightest problem (ok, it wasn't "slight") intercepting radials using the FOUR! separate procedures depending on whether the given objective was within 45 degrees, 45 to 90 degrees, 90 to 135 or over 135 degrees from your current radial. The latter two, IIRC, were the "parallel" and "fly away" methods. You'd first find your position, then figure the difference, then either fly parallel outbound (doing a time to station check when abeam the VOR) for a minute or you'd first fly "away" from the reciprocal of the radial to be intercepted before flying parallel outbound. Then you'd intercept on a 90 and track it inbound. Whew! All while balancing on the leaky bellows, partial panel, referencing a reverse-sensing DG while peering at the compass rose sideways through a slot in the instrument. This, for a VFR commercial pilot.

dtuuri
 
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I did mine the traditional way but I read the Instrument Flying Handbook and Instrument Procedures handbooks cover to cover and took the written before I even started flying. Then I flew twice a day during the week and got it done in a month. Pretty good pace for me. Probably could have done it faster if my instructor had been available. I'm still learning IFR stuff. Never done learning stuff.

Did the Instrument Flying Handbook and Instrument Procedures Handbook cover everything you needed to know to pass the written, or did you read other things as well?
 
I am studying for the IR written right now and from the practice tests, you need to study the Aviation Weather handbook as well. After 1.6 hours under the hood I am cooked for the day. Taking a 10 day intense program would not work well for me but YMMV!
 
You cant do it for 10 hours a day. No one can. But there are courses where you do it for 7 hours a day. Hour off for lunch. Morning and evening break. Class and flying 1.5 a day (and riding and observing another 1.5 a day) That is doable. You need to have the written out of the way and it wouldnt hurt to have some hours under the hood WITH an instructor beforehand. When you start, dont do approaches. Most dont teach that way. Just do cruise, climb, descend and turns under the hood. Track a VOR on a cross country for 1.5. Stuff like that. Find out which charts they are going to be using and use those. Its doable. Have to fork over for transportation, hotel and restuarant unless ou can find one local.
 
In the 1960s you needed 200 hours to apply for an instrument rating, so everybody went from private to VFR commercial. Of course, the commercial license also has certain instrument flying requirements and the 141 school I attended included six hours in a Link basic trainer for VOR orientation. Every time I visit my logbook and see those six hours carried forward to the following page, I break out in a sweat all over again.

The thing was a wood box that smelled like an old tennis shoe somebody threw up in. The air leaked out of the bellows, so there was no trimming for hands-off flight. You never knew which way it would list toward next. The DG, if you can call it that, was of a sinister design that turned the opposite way of your intuition and only showed a small portion of the compass rose at a time.

If that wasn't bad enough, the sim instructor was a humorless woman who could barely conceal her contempt for anyone having the slightest problem (ok, it wasn't "slight") intercepting radials using the FOUR! separate procedures depending on whether the given objective was within 45 degrees, 45 to 90 degrees, 90 to 135 or over 135 degrees from your current radial. The latter two, IIRC, were the "parallel" and "fly away" methods. You'd first find your position, then figure the difference, then either fly parallel outbound (doing a time to station check when abeam the VOR) for a minute or you'd first fly "away" from the reciprocal of the radial to be intercepted before flying parallel outbound. Then you'd intercept on a 90 and track it inbound. Whew! All while balancing on the leaky bellows, partial panel, referencing a reverse-sensing DG while peering at the compass rose sideways through a slot in the instrument. This, for a VFR commercial pilot.

dtuuri

I nominate this for "Best of POA" archives!
 
Jesse and I did mine in an "accelerated" fashion, but I'd been messing around with it and studying for it for almost two decades, including numerous writtens taken and passed and expired, and plenty of sim and aircraft time over the years.

The reality is, I don't need it much with the typical Colorado weather. I'm way out of currency now, and it'd be a bit of work to reset it again.

Which is pretty much how I showed up months after the training to do the checkride when we had scheduling difficulties.

The knowledge of what to do and the skillset itself doesn't fade. The application of that needs significant rust knocked off after late breaks like these.

I think if a student makes the effort to hammer through a compressed course, even as a newcomer, and then makes a continued effort to maintain currency and continue to grow their comfort level and skill in applying what they'd learned, that's one possible means to an end. The "slow" method also works, but doesn't remove the need to push hard to maintain currency plus more after obtaining the rating.

Similar to the Private rating, it's just another license to learn.
 
Did the Instrument Flying Handbook and Instrument Procedures Handbook cover everything you needed to know to pass the written, or did you read other things as well?

I used John and Martha for the written. Knowing then what I do now, I would have done Sheppard Air for the written.
 
Is Sheppard Air better than Gleim, Dauntless and ASA test prep for the instrument written exam? I have Gleim and Sheppard Air.
 
I di my transition into the Mooney all at once and didn't enjoy the experience much. Actually, I did, since I got to fly all day. But I really didn't learn to fly my airplane until I started going out in drabs and drabs. I can't imagine becoming a safe IFR pilot in so short a time. I'll probably start my own training in the early Spring.
 
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For me I like flying 2-3x a week before work to complete my instrument rating. I don't get as stressed as if I was trying to fly 40 hours in ten days. I figure that six months should be time to wrap up the program and become a safe instrument pilot or be on my way.
 
I just completed the accelerated course thru IFR Now based out of Charleston SC taking my check ride Monday of last week. It was by far the most mentally challenging thing I have ever done. I would highly recommend the program if you dedicate yourself to it for the week.
Feel free to contact me if you want specifics related to my experience with the program.
 
Personally I think that the intense program can work well for someone with a few hours experience and completed the written exam.
 
It can be done. You will think, breathe, and sleep aviation and you will be exhausted.
 
Can someone explain to me why Link Trainers had wings?

I gave a fair amount of primary training in a GAT-1 that had wings in the early 1970s. The walls were painted blue above the wingtips and brown (grey?) below that to simulate the ground. The windows had translucent plastic covers that snapped over them for IFR work. I suppose the Links could be used for basic VFR work too if the hood were left open.

dtuuri
 
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