hope this thread is not a dupe. now the faa wants us to buy new charts every 2 months wtf . and they also discontinued the " chart bulletin" that i would copy and staple to my chart once a month ,most of them saying no major changes. so i used to buy a new chart every few years and have all the pertinent info to complete a safe flight . now flying a champ just for fun well within the confines of the Miami sectional it would be nice to have the above if i was ever ramped . the old system worked well for 106 editions why the change? . byw champ is nonelectric and all i have is a compass and wrist watch .
sectionals every 56 days ???
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Brad Z
Final Approach
for every Luddite still bouncing around with paper charts they replace every few years, there's a dozen pilots using electronic charts wishing that changes were updated on the charts sooner than once every 6 months.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
“AOPA has been advocating for this change and working with the FAA to move toward a 56-day cycle for some time and appreciates the FAA’s willingness to work collaboratively to bring about one of the biggest changes to visual charts in decades," said Rune Duke, AOPA senior director of airspace, air traffic, and aviation security. “We know from our surveys that close to 90 percent of pilots are primarily using electronic charts and no longer rely on paper charts. We believe this transition will improve safety and allow greater modernization of charting products to meet general aviation pilots’ needs, but we also remain sensitive to paper chart availability and cost.”
Another stupid AOPA idea that will add 5% to the cost of primary flight training.
Another stupid AOPA idea that will add 5% to the cost of primary flight training.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Light and Sporty Guy
Just download them to your phone. Then you have them.
If you have an android phone avare is a free option.
Arnold
Cleared for Takeoff
Interesting. The use of the word Luddite caught my attention. Is it a pejorative term? I always thought it was. But I decided to check. This is what I found: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Luddite
So maybe its not pejorative, maybe just rude in the sense that calling people names is generally impolite - at least that is what I learned in kindergarten. It is possible to recognize and respect a different point of view and to advocate for our own differing point of view, without actually diminishing proponents of the opposite
Paper charts are old fashioned. They also don't need batteries or devices, well in my case eye glasses. If you are just buying them twice per year then you only spend about $20 rather than $100 which seems to be the min. for EFB, and the $80 difference is a decent dinner out with my lady friend.
But I see your point, perhaps the OP should trade his champ in on a cirrus. But that makes no sense if all the OP wants from an aircraft is the joy of flight and not the frustration of technology.
We all have different reasons for flying and different tolerance levels for technology.
Anyway enjoy your holiday, whichever one you celebrate.
[ ] From then on, his name was proverbially connected with the destruction of machinery. With the onset of the information age, Luddite gained a broader sense describing anyone who shuns new technology.
Paper charts are old fashioned. They also don't need batteries or devices, well in my case eye glasses. If you are just buying them twice per year then you only spend about $20 rather than $100 which seems to be the min. for EFB, and the $80 difference is a decent dinner out with my lady friend.
But I see your point, perhaps the OP should trade his champ in on a cirrus. But that makes no sense if all the OP wants from an aircraft is the joy of flight and not the frustration of technology.
We all have different reasons for flying and different tolerance levels for technology.
Anyway enjoy your holiday, whichever one you celebrate.
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chartbundle
There are plenty of options. You could get a giant printer and print your own(looks like used are about $600 or so for a 24" wide model). You can get a tablet($100-1500) and use the PDF or GeoTIFF directly from the FAA. You can use a conversion site and use programs like OruxMaps or GaiaGPS. You can use free EFBs like FltPlanGo. You can use paid EFBs.
I once considered bundling electronic charts and doing a paper mail of MicroSD cards for the less technologically minded to just slap in their tablet. Then I realized all 2 customers wouldn't be worth it.
I sort of wish that color eInk devices actually worked well, but they're not yet usable for a paper replacement really.
I once considered bundling electronic charts and doing a paper mail of MicroSD cards for the less technologically minded to just slap in their tablet. Then I realized all 2 customers wouldn't be worth it.
I sort of wish that color eInk devices actually worked well, but they're not yet usable for a paper replacement really.
With an electronic chart I can zoom in so that I don't need to put my reading glasses on.
I haven't bought a chart in years. Avare (free) on my phone, which I'd have with me anyway (and tablet if I'm going cross country), downloaded charts printed in the necessary sections on a tabloid size printer for backup.
BellyUpFish
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Backtothesand
ForeFlight... FTW...
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Snorting his way across the USA
Confucius say, if one have magenta line, why one need chart?
midwestpa24
Final Approach
From your own post, 90% of the pilots use electronic charts, and increasing updates makes things safer. Why should we continue with an outdated inefficient system of updates for the 10%, most of whom are probably not regular fliers.
No need to worry about getting ramped. For our type of flying, carrying current charts is a "should," not a "must." However, if they are discontinuing the chart bulletins, I can see how that could make it more difficult to become familiar with "all available information" before the flight.
From the FAA Web site:
What is the FAA policy for carrying current charts?
The specific FAA regulation, FAR 91.103 "Preflight Actions," states that each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. Although the regulation does not specifically require it, you should always carry a current chart with you in flight. Expired charts may not show frequency changes or newly constructed obstructions, both of which when unknown could be a hazard.
The only FAA/FAR requirements that pertain to charts are:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/faq/ The specific FAA regulation, FAR 91.103 "Preflight Actions," states that each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. Although the regulation does not specifically require it, you should always carry a current chart with you in flight. Expired charts may not show frequency changes or newly constructed obstructions, both of which when unknown could be a hazard.
The only FAA/FAR requirements that pertain to charts are:
- Title 14 CFR section 91.503[a] (Large and Turbojet powered aircraft)
- Title 14 CFR section 135.83 (Air Carriers-Little Airplane)
- Title 14 CFR section 121.549 (Air Carrier-Big Airplanes)
- "You can carry old charts in your aircraft." "It is not FAA policy to violate anyone for having outdated charts in the aircraft."
- "Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."
- ..."since some pilots thought they could be violated for having outdated or no charts on board during a flight, we need to clarify an important issue. As we have said, it is NOT FAA policy to initiate enforcement action against a pilot for having an old chart on board or no chart on board." That's because there is no regulation on the issue.
- ..."the issue of current chart data bases in handheld GPS receivers is a non-issue because the units are neither approved by the FAA or required for flight, nor do panel-mounted VFR-only GPS receivers have to have a current data base because, like handheld GPS receivers, the pilot is responsible for pilotage under VFR.
- "If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
The least expensive Foreflight subscription is $100 per year, although the cost of an iPad or iPhone is non-trivial.
Because youngsters are becoming pilots these days and geezers are leaving the system.
RussR
En-Route
While you may be aware of the chart bulletin, I'd have to guess that well more than 90% didn't even know it existed. So now, people who use EFBs, AND people who buy paper charts will be more up-to-date. People who haven't looked at a current chart in decades won't be affected at all, of course (like the two gentlemen who flew left traffic into my local airport a few weeks ago. When I saw them fueling at the pumps and reminded them that it was right traffic, they asked "when did that change?" Oh, as far as I know, never, it's always been that way due to nearby airspace...)
I do remember when I used paper charts, if I was flying regularly, they generally didn't last 6 months anyway.
And assuming you generally stay within a local area, you could always download the charts, crop it to your area, and print it out on a standard sheet of paper. Heck, you could take a screenshot of Skyvector and do that...
Here's the previous thread on the topic:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/sectional-chart-cycle-changes.129244/
In that thread, I linked to some recent changes to my local sectional, which, while not earth-shattering, were certainly not insignificant.
No where does it state that you have to take "all available information" onboard with you. That reg concerns itself only with preflight planning.