Saved $4500 on my annual

Jim K

Jim K

Final Approach
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Richard Digits
Because the prop shop is backed up 6 weeks. IA said they are usually a 2wk turnaround at most. Prop is working correctly and not leaking, but hasn't been looked at since it was put on almost 20 years ago. We'll try again in the spring.

I'm contemplating buying a 2 blade, having it gone through, and swapping it on while my 3 blade goes out. A 2 blade would help my w&b tremendously; if the performance is not noticeably different (and I bet it wouldn't be), I could sell the 3 blade. I'm not sure if there's any 2 blades for my plane that aren't subject to AD, and it seems like a lot of money and screwing around to avoid a few weeks of down time.

3 blade props do look cool though. And I want to look cool.

Just thinking out loud here.
 
I wouldn’t intentionally buy into a recurring prop AD. I recently spent a bunch to get out of one.
 
Salty said:
I wouldn’t intentionally buy into a recurring prop AD. I recently spent a bunch to get out of one.
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Agreed. I need to research if there's any options that don't have one. The original for my plane had a 50 hour, so that's obviously out.

@NealRomeoGolf no AD on yours? What is it?

KRyan said:
What is your aircraft/engine?
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PA-32R-300
 
Jim K said:
Because the prop shop is backed up 6 weeks. IA said they are usually a 2wk turnaround at most. Prop is working correctly and not leaking, but hasn't been looked at since it was put on almost 20 years ago. We'll try again in the spring.

I'm contemplating buying a 2 blade, having it gone through, and swapping it on while my 3 blade goes out. A 2 blade would help my w&b tremendously; if the performance is not noticeably different (and I bet it wouldn't be), I could sell the 3 blade. I'm not sure if there's any 2 blades for my plane that aren't subject to AD, and it seems like a lot of money and screwing around to avoid a few weeks of down time.

3 blade props do look cool though. And I want to look cool.

Just thinking out loud here.
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I bought a new prop because mine was last serviced in '83 and likely won't be serviceable. The new prop from Hartzell had a 4 month leadtime... (I'm 2 months into the wait) so you aren't going to save yourself any time there.
 
Jim K said:
I'm contemplating buying a 2 blade, having it gone through, and swapping it on while my 3 blade goes out. A 2 blade would help my w&b tremendously; if the performance is not noticeably different

3 blade props do look cool though. And I want to look cool.
Click to expand...

In general, a 2 blade will not climb as well but should be faster and more efficient in flight. If you wanted to look cool, you should have bought a Duke.

Salty said:
I wouldn’t intentionally buy into a recurring prop AD. I recently spent a bunch to get out of one.
Click to expand...

Hardsell? Luckily our 201 wears a McCauley.
 
There are several "no-AD" propellers for your aircraft.
 
Jim K said:
Agreed. I need to research if there's any options that don't have one. The original for my plane had a 50 hour, so that's obviously out.

@NealRomeoGolf no AD on yours? What is it?


PA-32R-300
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The original hubs had a recurring AD. My hub was replaced probably a decade ago to get out of the AD, before I bought it.
 
AD was 90-02-23. I can tell you my hub model when I get home later today. Got 8 hours of flying ahead of me.
 
Current Situation:
  • You have a prop that isn't broken, flies well for you, and looks cool.
  • You want preventive maintenance.

Desired Outcome:
  • You want the plane to have as little down time as possible
  • You want to look cool. (Hey, who doesn't).

Need for Action:
  • You don't have a time critical need to replace it or take it in for service.
  • No imminent failure is seen.
  • Odds are very good that nothing bad will happen between now and Spring.
Possible Actions:
  • Wait until Spring - achieve goal, keep looking cool
  • Replace with a new prop now - encounter the long shop times you're trying to avoid and spend a lot of money for a prop that doesn't look cool and you have no performance improvements to write home about
  • Service Prop now - encounter same long shop times you're trying to avoid
 
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They're expensive, but when the Hartzell 3 blade put on 15 years ago needs an overhaul I'd really think hard about the MT composite. Substantially lighter, unlimited blade life, and nickel leading edge to prevent dings at my "rustic" home base.
 
Clip4 said:
How does deferring maint. save money?
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Deferring maint doesn't save money. It saves time if it can be done faster later.
Doing maint vs buying a new prop / replacing the prop you have will save money.
 
If the only issue is age I’d just wait until there wasn’t a 6 week wait time.
 
WDD said:
Current Situation:
  • You have a prop that isn't broken, flies well for you, and looks cool.
  • You want preventive maintenance.

Desired Outcome:
  • You want the plane to have as little down time as possible
  • You want to look cool. (Hey, who doesn't).

Need for Action:
  • You don't have a time critical need to replace it or take it in for service.
  • No imminent failure is seen.
  • Odds are very good that nothing bad will happen between now and Spring.
Possible Actions:
  • Wait until Spring - achieve goal, keep looking cool
  • Replace with a new prop now - encounter the long shop times you're trying to avoid and spend a lot of money for a prop that doesn't look cool and you have no performance improvements to write home about
  • Service Prop now - encounter same long shop times you're trying to avoid
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Agreed, although a 2 blade would help with my w&b.

Racerx said:
They're expensive, but when the Hartzell 3 blade put on 15 years ago needs an overhaul I'd really think hard about the MT composite. Substantially lighter, unlimited blade life, and nickel leading edge to prevent dings at my "rustic" home base.
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I want one in the worst way, but the quote I got from them was $19,000. Just a bit too rich for me right now. I would still consider it in the future, but I talked to the guy at the prop shop, and he said they stopped carrying them due to parts availability. He said it was not uncommon to wait months for parts. They still service them, but no longer sell them. I was hoping hartzell would release a composite like the one they have for bonanzas, but i think that one's more expensive yet.
cowman said:
If the only issue is age I’d just wait until there wasn’t a 6 week wait time.
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I'm concerned that's going to be a matter of years. Im hoping there's a waiting list, and they don't actually have to have the prop in hand to get in line. In that case, yes I'll probably just do it in the spring.
 
Jim K said:
Agreed, although a 2 blade would help with my w&b.


I want one in the worst way, but the quote I got from them was $19,000. Just a bit too rich for me right now. I would still consider it in the future, but I talked to the guy at the prop shop, and he said they stopped carrying them due to parts availability. He said it was not uncommon to wait months for parts. They still service them, but no longer sell them. I was hoping hartzell would release a composite like the one they have for bonanzas, but i think that one's more expensive yet.

I'm concerned that's going to be a matter of years. Im hoping there's a waiting list, and they don't actually have to have the prop in hand to get in line. In that case, yes I'll probably just do it in the spring.
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https://www.propilotsinc.com/pa-32-mt-propeller-conversion/

Not sure if that price in this link is accurate or if its a different prop altogether. Would still wait a while so it makes the point moot. But yeah, would definitely like to go the composite route years down the road.
 
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Racerx said:
https://www.propilotsinc.com/pa-32-mt-propeller-conversion/

Not sure if that price in this link is accurate or if its a different prop altogether. Would still wait a while so it makes the point moot. But yeah, would definitely like to go the composite route years down the road.
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That's the same one. I got my quote from https://flight-resource.com/. Hard to believe they are 75% of the price, although 2k of my quote was shipping. 15k is almost within the realm of reason. The overhaul is going to be around 4k. I wonder what I could sell my hartzell for. I need to do the math and see what 20lbs off the nose really does for me.
 
Jim K said:
That's the same one. I got my quote from https://flight-resource.com/. Hard to believe they are 75% of the price, although 2k of my quote was shipping. 15k is almost within the realm of reason. The overhaul is going to be around 4k. I wonder what I could sell my hartzell for. I need to do the math and see what 20lbs off the nose really does for me.
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Perhaps installation cost as well? Regardless, my apologies to your wife. Spending someone else's money is one of my favorite past times. You be the test dummy and then tell me if it's worth it. Have yet to see a PA32 with an MT on it.
 
An update if anyone is interested:

I got a recommendation for Stalling Propeller in Wynne, AR. Sent an email at 6pm and the owner texted me at 7:30 to ask if I had time for a phone call. We had a nice conversation for about 20 min. He is happy to do an IRAN, and for my prop it would be around $1200 (compared to $4500 for an overhaul at APS). He also said his busy time is doing ag plane props in the winter, but he could turn it around in less than a week, possibly even same day, right now.

The bad news is that he doesn't pick up props this far away, although he does have ag customers in IL and could try to coordinate getting one of them to grab mine on their way down, but that would add a lot of time to the turnaround.

The solution as it turns out will still be waiting. He's currently building a shop on the field at kdrp, and will have the capability to offer fly-in service. So next summer when he's slow because all the ag planes are flying, I'll be able to fly down and get it done in a day, assuming there's nothing wrong internally.

He has some great reviews on the pa32 group as one of the few guys who will IRAN an older prop, and was super friendly on the phone. I'll update this again when I get the work done, but in the mean time check him out if you're in the neighborhood.
 
Few thoughts..

I’m not sure whether your W&B issues are more CG or more useful load related. I wouldn’t downgrade to a 2-bladed prop, simply because I think you’d see takeoff and climb performance suffer some (like when you’re doing an IFR departure from a grass runway).

I ran MT props on the 414 and loves them. I’ve known Martin for 15 years and he’s a really good guy. The company I think has a good business sense and they have improved their products over the years. On the 414, the MTs were hands down the best improvement I did - period - to any airplane.

With that said they have downsides. Yes if they break expect a long downtime. Lead times are long. They’re light but more fragile than a metal prop. The good part is that you can repair them with 5 minute epoxy (that’s actually the official procedure), and you’d be surprised how large of chunks you can fix with that. But you will probably need to at some point. Also while they were a performance improvement on the 414 in every respect, I haven’t heard those sorts of PIREPs from other aircraft owners.

I’d definitely look hard at another set of MTs, and considered them for the MU2 when it needed props. The price was ultimately way higher than a set of replacement metal props, even with the generous discount Martin offered Cloud Nine for them.
 
Ted said:
(like when you’re doing an IFR departure from a grass runway)
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I'd never do something that silly.

The issue I'm trying to solve re: w&b is that I have to carry cases of water in the rear baggage and only pillows in the front. Constantly trying to get the weight moved as far back as possible This is partly because I'm overly large, but also because there's a 75lb prop hanging way out front that Piper didn't plan for. I go this through this exercise every few months, and keep coming back to the decision that the money is probably better spent on a G500 & vacuum system elimination than an MT prop. w&b improvement won't be as dramatic, but the functionality will be. I wonder if I could talk my IA into a couple lbs of lead in the tail....
 
Jim K said:
I'd never do something that silly.

The issue I'm trying to solve re: w&b is that I have to carry cases of water in the rear baggage and only pillows in the front. Constantly trying to get the weight moved as far back as possible This is partly because I'm overly large, but also because there's a 75lb prop hanging way out front that Piper didn't plan for. I go this through this exercise every few months, and keep coming back to the decision that the money is probably better spent on a G500 & vacuum system elimination than an MT prop. w&b improvement won't be as dramatic, but the functionality will be. I wonder if I could talk my IA into a couple lbs of lead in the tail....
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There was that guy that decided to fix his weight and balance problem by taking the tail rope concrete and all. But since it's not my money I vote for both. G500 and MT prop.
 
I realize I'm an old geezer, but after watching a fellow motorcyclist have his rear wheel explode on the track, (I was six-feet in trail), I'm just not enthused about composite propellers.

I'm sure someone will come along to "correct" me.

IMG_7836 - Copy.jpg
 
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