Running out of fuel

Kenny Phillips said:
True "running out of fuel" is pure pilot error, and highly preventable. I've never run out of fuel, ever; not in my truck, my car, my airplane, my motorcycle. I wonder if the same kind of person who runs out on the ground runs out in the air?
Click to expand...

I've run out of gas twice on a motorcycle, but no other vehicles. Both were back in the day when bikes had a petcock.

First time, I filled the bike and forgot to put it back to ON before leaving the gas station. Nothing like having the engine sputter, reach down to put it on RESERVE, and finding it already on RESERVE. Oh crap, time to walk/push.

Second time I was dating a girl about 40mi away, and was riding to meet her for dinner. Bike went on RESERVE about 1/4 way there, but I was late for dinner and went past several gas stations. No problem, I figured, I'd buy gas on my way back later. Well, in that area they must have rolled up the sidewalks early, as no stations were open as I departed town at about 9:30pm. OK, cue sinking feeling. About 1/4 the way home, the bike ran out. Hilly terrain. Push uphill, drift down. Rinse, repeat. Finally, at the top of one hill I found an oasis, an open Shell station at the bottom. I drifted right up to the pump, and started filling. The attendant came out and told me I was very lucky, he closed at 11pm. I looked at my watch, it was 10:58.

From that day forward, anytime a bike goes on RESERVE or the gas light comes on, I stop at the next station to fill.
 
I plan for time rather than distance, and have increased margins over the basic reserves required. I don't understand how people can run out of fuel unless in some kind of emergency situation.

Kenny Phillips said:
True "running out of fuel" is pure pilot error, and highly preventable. I've never run out of fuel, ever; not in my truck, my car, my airplane, my motorcycle. I wonder if the same kind of person who runs out on the ground runs out in the air?
Click to expand...

My girlfriend likes to drive all the way down to the distance to empty is around 5 miles. I have seen DTE 0 on her gauges before. It drives me insane. I have never ran out of fuel in anything either. I would not put her in charge of fuel management on a trip in the airplane.
 
Last edited:
In a car or bike, I push fuel to the limits. I hate stopping for gas and want to stretch it as far as possible. I haven’t run out of gas for decades, the newer gauges are predictable enough now I can skirt the edge without falling off. But in my youth, I glided into a station and up to the pump with no power twice. Which isn’t saying as much for my luck as it is for how often I ran out and did not make it to the pump. Lol

But, I manage fuel in my plane completely different than I do a car. Not even close.
 
I always thought maybe planes should have a reserve like motorcycles did. Like a small 5 gallon tank with a separate fuel switch someplace totally different that the normal tanks. In case of a failure of the normal tanks. But I then think pilots would still run out of gas by relying on that reserve tank.

I did come close to running out of fuel on a cc trip. The stress I went through in the pattern and taxing has hopefully cured my desire to stretch my fuel.
 
When you consider that the NOTAM system kinda sucks and you never know what you'll find when you show up at an airport, fuel is your friend. Night time and runways lights are out and not NOTAMed, gas pumps out of service etc.
 
I have made a poor decision on fuel once, but I was still legal when I landed and had fuel flow information at my finger tips. It wasn't smart, but taught me a few things.
 
I learned the "fuel at the top of the tanks but still room for 3-4 more gallons" thing early on and I was the guy that fueled my plane. I also learned that the old gauges in my Cherokee when indicating empty still had 3-5 gallons in them. It made for one tense flight when my primary and alternate refueling airports went IFR along the way. Since then I've installed digital Cies senders with an Aerospace Logic digital fuel gauge in my plane. If you have the means, I highly suggest picking those up.
 
Last edited:
I have a JPI in my Cherokee, and I wouldn't want to fly a Cherokee (or any aircraft where one regularly does not top the tanks) without one...I've probably only topped my tanks 3 or 4 times in the 3 years I've owned my PA28...I've always landed with the proper reserves, but I could see how someone could run out, not topping their tanks as I do due to weight restrictions.
BTW, I've found that JPI to be very very accurate, but I still confirm every gas addition with a dip-stick in the tanks.
 
Pilot induced fuel exhaustion is the triumph of hope over experience (or physics). It is relatively easy to calculate available fuel time for a properly leaned plane and fuel load. Subtract your reserve (1 hour is a good number) and you have bingo time. When you hit bingo time you need to be over an airport and/or landing. Enroute, you can monitor progress to see if you will make it to your destination by bingo time. If your calculations come up short while en route you divert and refuel. Inconvenient, maybe, but eminently safe. Done it many times. Takes the stress and danger out of questionable range stretching.

Pilots go wrong by improperly estimating fuel load (or failing to note fuel load at all), improper leaning, or failing to heed bingo time. (Its hard to believe, but there are airplane owners out there who do not know how to use, and do not want to learn how to use the red knob.)

A lot of things can happen when flying, but it should be possible to avoid the fuel exhaustion thing with adequate planning.
 
tspear said:
This is why my dad never got a pilot license. When he was younger he ran out of has in a car once or twice a year. He was in his 40s before he stopped doing that.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Back in the early mid 70s when I started driving, it was not unusual to see a car being pushed. Gas was something like 35 cents a gallon and I made a dollar an hour working part time. When it was time to gas up, folks didn't just fill it, they put in 2 bucks worth, or however much money we had at the time. I remember as a kid I would go to the fillin' station with my dad. He would ask for 3 dollars worth and then we would get out and get a coke from the machine. Not one of those machines you dropped a coin in, this was one that you opened the top and reached in a got what you wanted, then go inside to pay a dime. Unless you wanted it to go, then it cost a nickel deposit.

Friday night some of us guys would pool our money to get a few gallons of gas to go "cruzin''. We weren't cheap, we just didn't have the money to fill the tank.

It was almost a daily thing to see several college kids pushing a car to the gas station.

I remember one time I found a 10 dollar bill on the road. I filled up the gas tank on my truck and had a little over 3 bucks change. My friends thought I had robbed a bank....

Not funny, but to fill my truck up now takes what I made monthly back when I was a teen.
 
Zeldman said:
Back in the early mid 70s when I started driving, it was not unusual to see a car being pushed. Gas was something like 35 cents a gallon and I made a dollar an hour working part time. When it was time to gas up, folks didn't just fill it, they put in 2 bucks worth, or however much money we had at the time. I remember as a kid I would go to the fillin' station with my dad. He would ask for 3 dollars worth and then we would get out and get a coke from the machine. Not one of those machines you dropped a coin in, this was one that you opened the top and reached in a got what you wanted, then go inside to pay a dime. Unless you wanted it to go, then it cost a nickel deposit.

Friday night some of us guys would pool our money to get a few gallons of gas to go "cruzin''. We weren't cheap, we just didn't have the money to fill the tank.

It was almost a daily thing to see several college kids pushing a car to the gas station.

I remember one time I found a 10 dollar bill on the road. I filled up the gas tank on my truck and had a little over 3 bucks change. My friends thought I had robbed a bank....

Not funny, but to fill my truck up now takes what I made monthly back when I was a teen.
Click to expand...

Well, it was in the 90s when my dad stopped running out of gas :D
I recall getting just 10 bucks of gas a lot in college because that was all the money I had. I drove a Chevy one ton pickup with a 454 and a 6 pack racing carb. I was lucky to get 8 miles to the gallon. Two 25 gallon tanks on that beast. I miss it, except when buying gas.

Tim
 
Old FAA pamphlet:
 

Attachments

  • time in your tanks.pdf
    214 KB · Views: 28
Unit74 said:
I know of one idiot who “doesn’t tanker fuel” ....... then augers his King Air just short of Springdale AR a few years ago. Landed in Camden AR and took a splash of gas and left. Killed himself and his girlfriend.


You can’t fix stupid.......
Click to expand...


That accident was sooo preventable. The pilot's actions were just unthinkable.
 
GRG55 said:
I see it a bit differently. If a pilot isn't paying enough attention to ensure they don't run out of fuel, they most probably aren't paying attention to anything else going on with the airplane.
Click to expand...

Actually, what's more likely is that they *are* paying attention to other things going on with the airplane (especially with weather, other mechanical issues, any one of dozens of other cockpit tasks in which one can get fully involved in), and they let fuel state fall too low in their crosscheck.
 
Incompetency is a lazy to way explain this away, but the real issues of running out of fuel is more subtle. Competent, responsible and risk-averse pilots have run out of fuel too. They are not all reckless cowboys.

A reliable endurance indicator is seriously missing from our cockpits. And I don't mean fuel totalizers. Just a reliable and highly visible count down clock. I know that a clock is a required equipment for IFR, but do you even know where the clock is on your panel, and how to even use it?
 
I ran low in an Aeronca Champ on my student X-country 1955. Route was Glendale--San Diego--Tucson. I got lost and the bobber was getting pretty low. NEVER AGAIN !!!
 
sarangan said:
Incompetency is a lazy to way explain this away, but the real issues of running out of fuel is more subtle. Competent, responsible and risk-averse pilots have run out of fuel too. They are not all reckless cowboys.

A reliable endurance indicator is seriously missing from our cockpits. And I don't mean fuel totalizers. Just a reliable and highly visible count down clock. I know that a clock is a required equipment for IFR, but do you even know where the clock is on your panel, and how to even use it?
Click to expand...

I have it on a 30 min timer as a reminder to change fuel tanks, whether I change it or not, it blinks and reminds me to do something about it. Totalizer is not the answer, well may be a partial answer. If there is a leakage your totalizer is worthless and we all know how accurate those gauges are. I am getting a reliable gauge when I have a chance. Worth the money.
 
Bonchie said:
In small planes, it seems to be mostly in those with switchable tanks and no "both" setting. How many times have we seen a Cherokee landed on a highway because someone forgot to switch the tank?
Click to expand...

Seems like no excuse, unless you're already really close to the ground. Engine winds down, one of the very first things you do is fuel pump on, change tanks. Unless there was some other problem in addition to too much air in that tank, it starts right up again. You get all the way through the process of landing on a highway without trying that?
 
GRG55 said:
I knew a married couple that did that. Both pilots. He was supposed to refuel after flying his leg. She assumed he had. Ran out of fuel in the mountains out west here. Totalled their Dakota. They both survived. Their marriage didn't.
Click to expand...

And the pilot on the accident leg never looked at the gauges, and never had the thought "hey, that doesn't look like what I would expect it to look like if he really did fuel up... maybe I should ask?"

I realize fuel gauges are hardly precision instruments, especially old ones, but if you own your plane you should get used to what to expect from them (and insist that they be at least roughly useful). I mean, really.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I've installed digital Cies senders with an Aerospace Logic digital fuel gauge in my plane. If you have the means, I highly suggest picking those up.
Click to expand...

I looked at those at my last annual; I had one fuel sender fail, and was undecided about replacing it. My A&P recommended the Cies ones, and they look cool, but I have 4 tanks and it would have been rewiring for all of them, and I was feeling poor. Maybe I should have though. Maybe I will the next time I have a problem with one of them. Hmmmm...
 
It's happened to me a couple/three times, involuntarily transitioning to a glider due to lack of fuel.
Always the result of leaking tanks/fuel system or combat damage.
As a result I have a tendency to carry more fuel than needed for the mission.
I do admit, I have concerns in the Cub.
With only 11 gallons, usable, and no reliable fuel gauge, I've been down to a gallon or less after getting caught in a stiff headwind on a couple of occasions.
 
I have only run out of fuel once...on a motorcycle. New to me bike, didn't know how far I could go on a tank until that day. Discovered it took 150 miles to go from full to half, then 25 miles to go from half to empty. Didn't know about the reserve switch. The engine died as I crossed the interstate overpass at 60 mph trying to get to the nearest station. Had just enough energy to get up the hill into the station and reach the first vacant pump. I never touched the brake. The guy filling his car across from me just laughed and said, "That was good."
 
I think I've said this before here, but -- I ran a tank dry once, in my Cherokee. Classic distraction. Bound for Burbank, LA center handed me off to SoCal, and I was having intermittent radio problems, a really fun thing when trying to talk to very busy LA-area controllers and they can't reliably hear you but sometimes they can, and let me try this, maybe, no, that's not better, I wonder if this could be (*engine winds down*)---- oh s**t!!!!

I simply completely forgot to switch tanks on schedule because I was totally focused on my radio problem. Engine winds down, fuel pump on, different tank, wait 4 or 5 seconds (a really long 4 or 5 seconds) and the engine comes back to life, happy as a clam. I think it cost me about 1000' vertically. A minor plus is that my wife now feels it is her solemn duty to monitor tank changes. :)
 
I was flying a C-340 once, going to pick up a couple passengers and bring them back. I had filled the main tanks which was more than enough fuel to make the round trip, but I was curious as to how much was in the auxiliaries.

So after leveling off, setting up for cruise, I switched the tanks. The gauges went to almost empty. 30 seconds later both engines started sputtering. Back to the mains..... Ok, now I know how much fuel is in the auxiliaries...:lol::lol:

I am a little different then most folks here. I make a living in small planes so I want to land with only 45 minutes of fuel remaining. Any more fuel and I have to dump revenue. I don't have any problem with non-commercial fliers that put in 6 hours of fuel for a 15 minute trip though. I am comfortable landing with 45 minutes fuel. If my in flight calculation shows I am going to cut it close, I have no problem landing along the way and adding more fuel. Except in Alaska where there is a better chance of not finding fuel out in the bush.
 
I plan for one hour fuel at destination, day vfr, and I'll land short for gas if it becomes clear I won't have it. Have done when I had 56 minutes showing because I'd encountered headwinds; thought about blowing it off, decided "standards aren't standards unless you adhere to them," and that was that.

IFR, always adhere to minima (of course), but practically speaking, I rarely launch if I don't have a solid fly to VFR plan (and in my flying, I usually do).

Track gauges, track fuel used on the totalizer, cross-check gauges to fuel used to ensure the readings make sense, and (of course) make certain that the amount of gas added matches quantity used.
 
Bonchie said:
In small planes, it seems to be mostly in those with switchable tanks and no "both" setting. How many times have we seen a Cherokee landed on a highway because someone forgot to switch the tank?
Click to expand...
Mine gets to the point where I have to hold aileron pressure to keep wings level, that the only recourse is to burn fuel from the heavy tank.
 
Funny thing happened to me: student solo xcountry. Stop to fuel after ~2hrs of flying. Been monitoring gauges and all, thought I had around 10 gallons on each tank (C172). Fuel, get the receipt, look at it and it says 35 gallons.
Got that horrible sinking feeling... "****, I screwed up fuel mgt big time"... only to realize it was someone else's receipt...
 
In my short 34 years of flying I’ve never ran out of fuel in an airplane, I’ve cut it way too close a couple times, but thankfully never turned into a glider pilot! I had just gotten my IR and my dad wanted to fly to Miami or Ft Lauderdale to look at a boat in our 182. I topped it off and we left Atlanta at daylight and flew non-stop, not much wind at all. Looked at the boat, had lunch and headed home after topping off of course. We had a slight headwind, and it was getting dark. Around Macon we were showing 1/4 in each tank, ok, less than an hour to go. We got vectored our east and then into FTY. We honestly thought of landing at PDK, which is 10 miles from FTY. We made it with 7 gallons in the tanks! We both knew we should have stopped, but didn’t!
 
3393RP said:
That accident was sooo preventable. The pilot's actions were just unthinkable.
Click to expand...
I think *tanker* is a much different definition than taking enough fuel to get where you’re going, plus reserves.
 
The lowest I've been is about 12.5 gallons remaining, landing VFR at night. I burn ~13.5/hr so I was just under 1 hr of fuel remaining. I was managing fuel closely so I knew what I had in each side, and I'm always conservative when punching in amount in fuel totalizer, so probably had an extra gallon or two. My fuel range ring on my IFD100 app was very nice to have on that trip!

I'm having a new ei MVP50 installed this month, along with new magnetic floats, so hopefully the gauges will now be more accurate! The stock gauges are not reliable enough IMO.
 
MacFlier said:
Funny thing happened to me: student solo xcountry. Stop to fuel after ~2hrs of flying. Been monitoring gauges and all, thought I had around 10 gallons on each tank (C172). Fuel, get the receipt, look at it and it says 35 gallons.
Got that horrible sinking feeling... "****, I screwed up fuel mgt big time"... only to realize it was someone else's receipt...
Click to expand...
That receipt would have made me physically ill, as my Skyhawk had a 36-gallon fuel capacity!
 
That's the nice thing about those 30 minute countdown timers on transponders. Programming them to talk to you makes it even easier. Plus annoying MSG flashers on the GPS. Then you get your total timer from the transponder as well. Plus use an engine monitor, which happen to be among the more reasonably priced items you can buy for a plane that enhances your flying. With the ability to plan using apps, there really isn't an excuse anymore.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
That receipt would have made me physically ill, as my Skyhawk had a 36-gallon fuel capacity!
Click to expand...
In my case, I initially thought: "Man... that means I landed with 5 gallons left, which is right at the minimum VFR reserve." But I could swear I had more fuel, and my pre-flight planning math, reviewed by my CFI, said I'd be landing with over 20 gallons.
So I reviewed the gopro video and zoomed in on the engine monitor several times and it showed I had 24 gallons 20 minutes before landing... engine doing 8gph...
I redid all the math, fuel planning and still couldn't figure out why I would burn so much fuel, as I remember explicitly leaning the engine to 8gph.
Anyway, when the actual CC charge came in, it indicated I added 15 gallons only of fuel... what a relief!
 
Kenny Phillips said:
True "running out of fuel" is pure pilot error, and highly preventable. I've never run out of fuel, ever; not in my truck, my car, my airplane, my motorcycle. I wonder if the same kind of person who runs out on the ground runs out in the air?
Click to expand...

midwestpa24 said:
I have only run out of fuel once...on a motorcycle. New to me bike, didn't know how far I could go on a tank until that day. Discovered it took 150 miles to go from full to half, then 25 miles to go from half to empty. Didn't know about the reserve switch. The engine died as I crossed the interstate overpass at 60 mph trying to get to the nearest station. Had just enough energy to get up the hill into the station and reach the first vacant pump. I never touched the brake. The guy filling his car across from me just laughed and said, "That was good."
Click to expand...

Sounds like the one time I ran out of gas in a motorcycle. I was used to my old Honda 90 which had 1 gallon on main and .45 gallons on reserve. You'd run out, switch to reserve and you still had plenty of time to look for a gas station. Thing got about 100 mpg, so you weren't really in a hurry. Then I sold the Honda 90 and bought a Honda CL 175. It didn't get 100 mpg, and it had a much smaller reserve. I ran out leaving Moscow, Idaho heading for Pullman, WA - 8 miles away. Headed for my regular gas station in Pullman and ran out of gas about 100 yards short of the gas station. That wasn't much of a reserve after the Honda 90s reserve. Never ran out again.

Ran out of gas once during wheat harvest in a truck. I put it in neutral, coasted a few miles and had to use the brakes to slow down to pull into the farmer's driveway to put a couple gallons in it from the pump in his garage to then get to the shop and gas it up. Never had that problem any other time during harvest, so I don't know why that truck ran out that day. We gassed them up in the morning before starting out and that was (except that one time) usually plenty.

I've never run out of gas in a car or airplane. Now, my wife begs to run out of gas in her car because driving around town she never gets gas until the low gas idiot light comes on.
 
My instructor, from day 1, told me to always look at fuel in terms of hours in the tank, always.
 
MacFlier said:
Funny thing happened to me: student solo xcountry. Stop to fuel after ~2hrs of flying. Been monitoring gauges and all, thought I had around 10 gallons on each tank (C172). Fuel, get the receipt, look at it and it says 35 gallons.
Got that horrible sinking feeling... "****, I screwed up fuel mgt big time"... only to realize it was someone else's receipt...
Click to expand...
A few months ago I landed at an airport which shall remain nameless (but its identifier is KHII). The fuel truck guy came back into the office and told the fellow behind that desk that he had just pumped 147 gallons into my airplane. When queried, the driver repeated the 147 gallon figure. Desk guy shrugged and started filling out the invoice accordingly. At that point a discussion ensued about (a) the proper use of decimal points and (b) the fuel capacity of an old 172.

I paid for my 14.7 gallons and got out of there. :confused:
 
Ryanb said:
How does it happen? Seems like I’ve been reading again and again how pilots have been running out of fuel, which is the leading cause of the accident. So which demographic is most likely to run out? Seems unlikely that a jet runs out, although I realize that their fuel systems are much more complex than those in our light-singles.
Click to expand...
I've personally never ran out of fuel as I always fly with more than I need, but its all pilot error. Whether it be poor flight planning or poor in-flight decisions, its always pilot error.
 
tspear said:
This is why my dad never got a pilot license. When he was younger he ran out of has in a car once or twice a year. He was in his 40s before he stopped doing that.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Well, I guess habits are hard to break :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top