Road Bump in Buying a Plane - No Place to Put It

Half Fast said:
Where does that come from? My plane has sat for two weeks while I waited for a part to arrive. 48 hours?
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It was stated in and to be taken in the context of an informal conversation as in “if you use this place to store junk you better be able to prove you have an active aircraft”, not an official “you have 48 hours” to get that plane you’ve got logged hours and fuel receipt from last week but blew a jug and are waiting on parts. It might be a midwestern thing, but a half joking/half not statement that conveys a principled idea rather than formalized rule..? If that makes sense??
 
midwestpa24 said:
Buying land would be cheaper?
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Well ... if you have no other options and you want a plane badly enough.

1.5 mil was the number being tossed around. A few acres of land in the middle of nowhere and and T-hangar or a few might be built for that much. Besides that land would only increase in value ...
 
Shepherd said:
I am seriously looking at buying a piece of property in upstate NY that has a house, hangar and a 2,000 ft turf runway.
The cost for hanger space is now almost $6K a year. I only paid $24K for my plane. That's a plane every 4 years.
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I'd maybe take a look north and a bit west, Mohawk River valley, maybe Fonda area. I say that because it's flatter and less populated than the Hudson River valley north of Albany, and it's less populated. A farm to grow high quality hay for the horse racing folks, and of course the farm needs an airstrip.
 
Albany Tom said:
A farm to grow high quality hay for the horse racing folks, and of course the farm needs an airstrip.
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Yes, of course! Every farm should have a long flat pasture for horses and cattle ... :yesnod:
 
I’m shocked that VPC doesn’t have available tie downs. I’m based there and it seems to me that several have gone unused for quite a while. Might want to drive there and follow-up in person.
 
Albany Tom said:
I'd maybe take a look north and a bit west, Mohawk River valley, maybe Fonda area. I say that because it's flatter and less populated than the Hudson River valley north of Albany, and it's less populated. A farm to grow high quality hay for the horse racing folks, and of course the farm needs an airstrip.
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Exactly. I'm looking west, and a little south of the Finger Lakes.
 
The waitlist for hangars locally is long, but if you actually walk in and talk to them and HAVE AN AIRPLANE, you can get moved pretty far up the list.
 
UngaWunga said:
The waitlist for hangars locally is long, but if you actually walk in and talk to them and HAVE AN AIRPLANE, you can get moved pretty far up the list.
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You can get on the list at all without an airplane?
 
Given the so-called unmet demand, I don't see a reason jurisdictions couldn't gentrify the hangar lease rates until there was nothing but oral legends of some long dead waiting list. Yes, I'm making an accelerationist claim, but I only do so because I'm skeptical of the reasons why airports with so-called waiting lists don't do it.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Given the so-called unmet demand, I don't see a reason jurisdictions couldn't gentrify the hangar lease rates until there was nothing but oral legends of some long dead waiting list. Yes, I'm making an accelerationist claim, but I only do so because I'm skeptical of the reasons why airports with so-called waiting lists don't do it.
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Because many airport boards are at least partially staffed by pilots. Pilots who do what they can to avoid being priced out.
 
kyleb said:
Because many airport boards are at least partially staffed by pilots. Pilots who do what they can to avoid being priced out.
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Not to belabor the point, but my first inclination when reading that is to note that those frozen on the wait list are pilots too.

Taking the premise of the composition of airport boards at face value, that would strike me as a form of personal corruption then. In fairness that's not unique to aviation; I consider all manifestations of ladder-pulling to be personally corrupt to varying degrees.
 
Hang 4 said:
Try Pickens County (KJZP). I was in the shared hangar at RYY and went there for fuel. Seemed like they had plenty of options
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They have 40 tiedowns, with no plans for more. Actually they removed about 40 tiedowns (occupied) to make room to park all the transient jets. :rolleyes: All hangars are full with waiting list. I spent 6 years on the ramp at JZP, and finally found a port a port hangar on the east side that I could subrent for about $25/mo more than the going rate. But, there is land available to build your own hangar, if you don't mind simply handing it over to the county in 10 years, then paying them rent at the going rate.
 
UngaWunga said:
The waitlist for hangars locally is long, but if you actually walk in and talk to them and HAVE AN AIRPLANE, you can get moved pretty far up the list.
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If you have a cool or unusual airplane, the airport manager may put a thumb on the scale. Seen it.

Personality also factors into it. I am at a private airfield. The owner/manager has one rule: don't be a d**k. He is quite adept at assessing this during the initial inquiry. Those who nonverbally communicate that they are likely to be PITAs are steered elsewhere.
 
Along this vein, I was at my airport tonight...I saw a younger (maybe early 30s) guy a couple of hangars down that I'd never seen before, walking back and forth to his minivan parked nearby. I waved, and he very meekly waved back while looking away to avoid eye contact. When I left for the night, I made a U turn so that I'd have to drive past his open hangar. He must own a clothing store (or he just hijacked a truck), as the entire hangar was nothing but racks and racks of sport coats. I thought about taking a picture for this thread, but decided that if he really did hijack a truck that might not be a good idea, and this time I avoided eye contact as I drove by.
 
Country Flier said:
Along this vein, I was at my airport tonight...I saw a younger (maybe early 30s) guy a couple of hangars down that I'd never seen before, walking back and forth to his minivan parked nearby. I waved, and he very meekly waved back while looking away to avoid eye contact. When I left for the night, I made a U turn so that I'd have to drive past his open hangar. He must own a clothing store (or he just hijacked a truck), as the entire hangar was nothing but racks and racks of sport coats. I thought about taking a picture for this thread, but decided that if he really did hijack a truck that might not be a good idea, and this time I avoided eye contact as I drove by.
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So ... he has a hangar full of hangers
 
I have a T-hangar near Pensacola (2R4- Milton, FL) and was on the waitlist for 2 years. I was working in the hangar one afternoon and noticed a truck pulling a boat on the taxiway. I drove past where the truck was going and saw an open hangar with 2 Bass Tracker type boats inside. T-hangar prices at 2R4 aren't super expensive which is probably why people do that since enclosed boat/RV storage is a lot more expensive. However, the county was really adamant when I got called up from the waiting list that I present a valid aircraft registration, airworthiness certificate, and proof of current insurance before they would lease the hangar to me. Made me wonder how many of those hangars actually had airplanes in them after all.
 
seems to be a universal problem. It's that way here too.... KSGJ, KCRG, KHEG
I like to daydream about getting a plane, but I know it won't work for me if I'm driving to Ormand or somewhere to fly it.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Therein lies the issue. We just built a set of 10 T-Hangars on an already shovel ready site. $1.5 million. That is $150,000 per unit. If it wasn't for grant funding, there is no way our local pilots would have been willing to pay what it would cost to amortize the project. If you figure a 20 year note, that would be $625/month, which at a rural airport is about 2-3x more than anyone would be willing to pay.
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Rural airport I am at just added a 4th row.

New leases are $650 a month. And people are paying it.

Hangar prices have got to adjust to the realities of the cost of building and maintaining them. We would all love $200 a month hangars, but that is NOT realistic.
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you have a cool or unusual airplane, the airport manager may put a thumb on the scale. Seen it.

Personality also factors into it. I am at a private airfield. The owner/manager has one rule: don't be a d**k. He is quite adept at assessing this during the initial inquiry. Those who nonverbally communicate that they are likely to be PITAs are steered elsewhere.
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Jets are the reason. Airports are interested in having great big, fuel gulping jets to buy lots and lots of fuel from them and only really want parking and hangars for them. All the little GA airplane on the field hold the same amount of fuel as one Citation and you’d have to fly 200 hours to equal the fuel sold to one jet.

It’s what happens when an airport decides to be a business making money rather than a service to the community. Spending money is fun, scraping to get by isn’t.

Through the fence operations should theoretically relieve some of this pressure by allowing outside space to be utilized, but most airport businesses don’t want the competition.

That’s dark, but tell me I’m wrong.
 
bflynn said:
Jets are the reason. Airports are interested in having great big, fuel gulping jets to buy lots and lots of fuel from them and only really want parking and hangars for them. All the little GA airplane on the field hold the same amount of fuel as one Citation and you’d have to fly 200 hours to equal the fuel sold to one jet.

It’s what happens when an airport decides to be a business making money rather than a service to the community. Spending money is fun, scraping to get by isn’t.

Through the fence operations should theoretically relieve some of this pressure by allowing outside space to be utilized, but most airport businesses don’t want the competition.

That’s dark, but tell me I’m wrong.
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Ain't no jets landing on our 3600' grass strip.:)
 
So much for supply and demand. Waiting lists for hangars across the US, yet none are being built.​
 
bflynn said:
Jets are the reason. Airports are interested in having great big, fuel gulping jets to buy lots and lots of fuel from them and only really want parking and hangars for them. All the little GA airplane on the field hold the same amount of fuel as one Citation and you’d have to fly 200 hours to equal the fuel sold to one jet.

It’s what happens when an airport decides to be a business making money rather than a service to the community. Spending money is fun, scraping to get by isn’t.

Through the fence operations should theoretically relieve some of this pressure by allowing outside space to be utilized, but most airport businesses don’t want the competition.

That’s dark, but tell me I’m wrong.
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Really, I blame the EAA crowd filling hangers with kits that take 7 years to complete.
 
Daleandee said:
Seems with those numbers a few owners might get together and find some affordable land close by and start building ...
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That's the route I'm going.

Airpark lots are absurdly priced. Airpark homes for sale (excluding FL) are at least 1000 more sq ft than I need. Building to HOA specs, same thing.

Buy enough land to pioneer in 2000-3000' and build a few T hangars for rent.
 
kyleb said:
Because many airport boards are at least partially staffed by pilots. Pilots who do what they can to avoid being priced out.
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hindsight2020 said:
Not to belabor the point, but my first inclination when reading that is to note that those frozen on the wait list are pilots too.

Taking the premise of the composition of airport boards at face value, that would strike me as a form of personal corruption then. In fairness that's not unique to aviation; I consider all manifestations of ladder-pulling to be personally corrupt to varying degrees.
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You two are on the right track. Even if the board or city council that control the airport aren't pilots, often times pilots and aircraft owners are among the "movers and shakers" of the community, and they have their ear. Being an airport manager at a public airport becomes a very political job whether you like it or not. We serve, or leave, at the pleasure of the public and elected officials.
 
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When I bought my current tube & rag airplane (a Maule MX7-180) I was living in northern Virginia, just outside of DC. I had the same conundrum. I found a house and hangar on a private airstrip that had room to add my plane for a monthly fee. Sometimes I had to juggle planes around to get mine out, but it was hangared. You might look for a similar opportunity in your area. I looked at Google Maps images to see where large private hangars on residential airparks were and then dropped in to chat. I got turned away a bunch of times, but finally connected with someone that had the space and was happy to have me there. We wound up being flying buddies as well as hangar mates. When I retired, I moved to a location that had a hangar available just 5 minutes from where I bought land to build my retirement house. The shared private hangar worked for several years leading up to that move though.
 
Clip4 said:
Really, I blame the EAA crowd filling hangers with kits that take 7 years to complete.
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Do you think they would move out of the hangars when the plane is complete?
 
Clip4 said:
Really, I blame the EAA crowd filling hangers with kits that take 7 years to complete.
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That's better than boats and cars. At least its almost an airplane.
There's a woodworking shop that uses two back to back hangar at the local airfield. I'd love to have one of them since its on slightly higher ground and doesn't get muddy in front like my current one does. But he's been there for years, and probably pays every month....
 
UngaWunga said:
That's better than boats and cars. At least its almost an airplane.
There's a woodworking shop that uses two back to back hangar at the local airfield. I'd love to have one of them since its on slightly higher ground and doesn't get muddy in front like my current one does. But he's been there for years, and probably pays every month....
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Plus a good woodworking shop can be quite useful to know.
 
Clip4 said:
Really, I blame the EAA crowd filling hangers with kits that take 7 years to complete.
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Thing is, the majority of homebuilt construction is commonly done at home…thus the name. Final year tops is done in a hangar, and then, as was pointed out, it *is* an airplane.

EAA crowd??
 
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Build a Sonex and trailer it like a glider.
 
If you go back to the mid 20th century, there were many more privately owned public use airports than there are now. As real estate became more expensive, these airports closed and became office parks and housing developments, the revenue they generated wasn't enough to keep the land from being converted to something else, so there are fewer such airports, especially near metro areas, so many of us only have access to publicly owned airports, and quite often these airports are focused on business aviation, building new hangars for private owners becomes low priority.

As far as people renting hangars for non-aviation purposes, that is a pricing issue. If someone is renting a hangar for a car collection or general storage that's a signal that the hangars are renting for a below market rate. If you want hangars available for new owners, expect the prices to go up quite a bit.
 
painless said:
Thing is, the majority of homebuilt construction is commonly done at home…thus the name. Final year tops is done in a hangar, and then, as was pointed out, it *is* an airplane.

EAA crowd??
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I don’t know where you live, but my experience is an active EAA chapter’s members eat about 15% -20% of the hangar space at a lot of airports and those kits aren’t completed for years. In my view hangars should not be used for kit assembly or storage of aircraft that don’t have a current annual inspection and the FAA should take a stand on this at grant airports.

If it can’t fly, it needs to go.

 
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flyersfan31 said:
Build a Sonex and trailer it like a glider.
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Takes a couple of people and about all day to install the wings on a Sonex. RV-12 is pretty easy but it's still a process.

I like the wing fold that Dan Weseman built into his single seat Panther. He sometimes brings it to events in a trailer that he pulls behind his motorhome. He was said to be working on a two seat version (Cougar) but that seems to have stalled.


SPA Panther
 
Clip4 said:
In my view hangars should not be used for kit assembly or storage of aircraft that don’t have a current annual inspection and the FAA should take a stand on this at grant airports.

If it can’t fly, it needs to go.
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Well at the airport my hanger is at (that receives grants) most of the hangers are empty, it would be nice to see some projects in them. A blanket policy that may seem a good idea in one part of the country doesn’t necessarily mean it would be a good policy applied federally across the country.
 
Clip4 said:
I don’t know where you live, but my experience is an active EAA chapter’s members eat about 15% -20% of the hangar space at a lot of airports and those kits aren’t completed for years. In my view hangars should not be used for kit assembly or storage of aircraft that don’t have a current annual inspection and the FAA should take a stand on this at grant airports.

If it can’t fly, it needs to go.
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Because your aviation activity is more important than their aviation activity?

Bottom line, airports don’t want to build hangars for us.
 
FormerHangie said:
As real estate became more expensive, these airports closed
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I’ve seen the same thing happen to a few small town airports that got sold and plowed under to grow corn as the ethanol plants started getting built. Now it’s the golf courses about to fall under the same fate (I don’t like golf, only played it twice in my life and that’s because I was forced to through work) but it’s been the big talk of the town a few miles from home. City owned and while solvent, not many citizens of the town have the time to use it, they can’t afford the fees and cart etc, and it has developed over decades a kinda of exclusionary attitude and they do not feel welcome to go there. Now the people of the town see it as a multi million dollar winning lottery ticket to cash out to pay for the water treatment plant upgrade they just had their property taxes and water rates hiked to pay for and are packing city hall every council meeting demanding it be sold to pay for it instead of levying them.
 
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