Restrictions while Air Force One en-route?

[Martymccasland]

I noticed a few TFR due to a presidential visit and it got me to wondering: What do they do while AFO is en-route? Do they block really wide lanes and just keep everyone away. Or, unless you're really close to the plane, one likely wouldn't even be able to distinguish the plane unless within 5-6 miles....

Just curious what, if anything, special is done en-route.

 

[Brad Z]

I noticed a few TFR due to a presidential visit and it got me to wondering: What do they do while AFO is en-route? Do they block really wide lanes and just keep everyone away. Or, unless you're really close to the plane, one likely wouldn't even be able to distinguish the plane unless within 5-6 miles....

Just curious what, if anything, special is done en-route.

Basically a large air traffic bubble around the plane.

 

[SCCutler]

Don't know if it has changed in the current regime (doubt it), but when GWB was President, there was a very large TFR over Waco and environs when he was in residence and inbound, but nothing different was ever done as regards the aircraft itself, and there were a couple of times when (by coincidence) I found myself sharing the airspace under Waco Approach's control with Air Force One. Nothing unusual, as far as I could tell; just read and comply with the NOTAMs.

I did hear a guy mouthing off to the Approach controller when he was asked to turn for "airspace" - the guy said, "What, is old Bushie in town?" in a derisive tone, and the controller said, "Stand by." Next transmission: "Waco Approach, Air Force One, two thousand, Gear Down."

Would not be surprised if that first guy got a phone call...

 

[Velocity173]

I noticed a few TFR due to a presidential visit and it got me to wondering: What do they do while AFO is en-route? Do they block really wide lanes and just keep everyone away. Or, unless you're really close to the plane, one likely wouldn't even be able to distinguish the plane unless within 5-6 miles....

Just curious what, if anything, special is done en-route.

No increased separation. They're afforded expeditious handling but that's about it.

 

[Martymccasland]

How frequently are the presidential TFRs violated?

I ask because looking at the one going up here tomorrow, it encompasses little airfields a good distance away. The TFR is roughly 70nm across for 5 hours and covers several little out-lying airfields.

I would think it's not at all uncommon for something like a retired fella, not watching the news, firing up his Cub, and taking it for spin. Even if he knew about a presidential visit, he might not log on a realize how big the TFR is, what time it's going on, etc...

I've gotta think such inadvertent violations are not all that rare and occur outside of the occasional story of F-16s intercepting a 172. Anyone know?

 

[Unit74]

I saw the TFR over Conway. Looks like if your inside the 10 mile radius your grounded. Outside it but in the larger radius you can sneek in and out only if you are on an active flight plan. It is what it is....

 

[Velocity173]

How frequently are the presidential TFRs violated?

I ask because looking at the one going up here tomorrow, it encompasses little airfields a good distance away. The TFR is roughly 70nm across for 5 hours and covers several little out-lying airfields.

I would think it's not at all uncommon for something like a retired fella, not watching the news, firing up his Cub, and taking it for spin. Even if he knew about a presidential visit, he might not log on a realize how big the TFR is, what time it's going on, etc...

I've gotta think such inadvertent violations are not all that rare and occur outside of the occasional story of F-16s intercepting a 172. Anyone know?

Go out to those little airfields today and you'll probably see some Army ADA guys setting up their equipment.

 

[Clark1961]

Outside it but in the larger radius you can sneek in and out only if you are on an active flight plan.

And a discrete transponder code prior to departure - it's no big deal and you aren't "sneaking" - as you say, it is what it is - although I was a little miffed when ATC didn't want me to get within a couple miles of the 10 mile "no fly" circle. They effectively expanded the no fly zone without publication.

 

[Brad Z]

Enroute at flight levels, as others mentioned normal seperation applies. Most domestic destinations will have a TFR and a ramp freeze at the time of arrival and departure, so it's not like he will be in trail on approach with aircraft arriving and departing around them. Generally the closest GA aircraft will come to AF1 is around Andrews, where no TFRs aside from the permenent FRZ apply. But as a vetted FRZ flyer, I have been given turns when AF1 was coming or going. There's probably classified LOAs with USSS for dealing with seperation inside the FRZ that's not addressed in the 7110.65, but I doubt ATC will ever allow me as close to AF1 as I would to an RJ on approach to National.

 

[ARFlyer]

I have never noticed any while flying.

I have noticed that Obama is going to the local Air Force base instead of the nearby civilian airport. Clinton hated going to the LRAFB and Bush never used it as well. I guess he feels that he doesn't want to mingle with the common folks.

 

[ARFlyer]

How frequently are the presidential TFRs violated?

I ask because looking at the one going up here tomorrow, it encompasses little airfields a good distance away. The TFR is roughly 70nm across for 5 hours and covers several little out-lying airfields.

I would think it's not at all uncommon for something like a retired fella, not watching the news, firing up his Cub, and taking it for spin. Even if he knew about a presidential visit, he might not log on a realize how big the TFR is, what time it's going on, etc...

I've gotta think such inadvertent violations are not all that rare and occur outside of the occasional story of F-16s intercepting a 172. Anyone know?

I know at our flight school, we will most likely have a no fly order from the boss. Even though we are 30ish miles from the edge of the outer ring.

 

[poadeleted20]

How frequently are the presidential TFRs violated?

My impression from reading news reports is that they are violated once or twice a day when they are effective, although the longer they are up, the lower the violation rate (seems like pilots get the message after a few local news stories are published).

Of course, there's no excuse at all for violating one of these, but even after more than ten years of this, it still seems nearly impossible to get every pilot to check NOTAMs before every flight.

 

[jordane93]

I'm curious if AF1 gets cleared direct to destination all the time?

 

[fiveoboy01]

Of course, there's no excuse at all for violating one of these, but even after more than ten years of this, it still seems nearly impossible to get every pilot to check NOTAMs before every flight.

I don't get it either, it's less than 5 minutes on the phone with a briefer. People must be just that lazy or complacent.

 

[Clark1961]

I don't get it either, it's less than 5 minutes on the phone with a briefer. People must be just that lazy or complacent.

Hard to figure, that's for sure. The best one around here was some guy from Wyoming decided to visit Denver on the wrong day. It sounded like he and the F-16's got to APA at about the same time.

I've been in Buckley's airspace when an F-16 was departing - the guy/gal sure took their sweet time after getting departure clearance from the tower. Evidently they didn't hurry much when the invading Cessana from the north (Wyoming) came to town either...

 

[Velocity173]

I'm curious if AF1 gets cleared direct to destination all the time?

I wouldn't say direct the destination all the time. I've got on an old flight progress strip on A1 and a major part of their route was taken out. Got direct RIC then ADW.

 

[Palmpilot]

The Pres is coming here this Thursday to Friday. A local news report indicates he will be less than 1/4 mile from my house. It will be interesting to see what sort of law enforcement presence is noticeable.

 

[Martymccasland]

The Pres is coming here this Thursday to Friday. A local news report indicates he will be less than 1/4 mile from my house. It will be interesting to see what sort of law enforcement presence is noticeable.

The most impressive security presence my untrained eye has ever seen was NYC when the UN is in session. I've been there many times during that time of the year, but the year when Chavez did the "brimstone" comment after Bush spoke took the cake.

I was in a Starbucks on Lexington getting a coffee. I see a fellow reading a paper and looks totally normal. Then there's a little commotion outside, he drops everything, speaks into his sleeve, and then I see the earpiece. 'At a random Starbucks just along the some route a dignitary would be taking to the UN that morning.... Then the motorcade comes by, agents with one foot out of the car on the running-boards scanning rooftops as they traveled far faster than I'd ever be comfortable holding on with just one hand and the door open.

Then on another morning I go to one of my favorite breakfast spots in a mid-sized hotel. I am greeted at the door and am told the hotel is fully occupied. "No problem - I'm just going to get breakfast." Then they rephrase, "No -- the hotel is closed." Closed? The whole hotel? I thought they were doing well. Then the security guard explained it was a Middle Eastern oil country that rented the entire hotel even though they only needed a fraction of the rooms. That way they could completely control who was in the building and increase security... The entire not so small hotel - in Midtown!

Made me wonder what sort of non-obvious security was going on as well... Also made me want to get out of town until the UN was out of session. The President plus a few hundred other world leaders in one spot is an awfully big target.

 

[Morgan3820]

Don't know if it has changed in the current regime (doubt it), but when GWB was President, there was a very large TFR over Waco and environs when he was in residence and inbound, but nothing different was ever done as regards the aircraft itself, and there were a couple of times when (by coincidence) I found myself sharing the airspace under Waco Approach's control with Air Force One. Nothing unusual, as far as I could tell; just read and comply with the NOTAMs.

I did hear a guy mouthing off to the Approach controller when he was asked to turn for "airspace" - the guy said, "What, is old Bushie in town?" in a derisive tone, and the controller said, "Stand by." Next transmission: "Waco Approach, Air Force One, two thousand, Gear Down."

Would not be surprised if that first guy got a phone call...

For what reason? Did he fail to comply with ATC?

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I have never noticed any while flying.

I have noticed that Obama is going to the local Air Force base instead of the nearby civilian airport. Clinton hated going to the LRAFB and Bush never used it as well. I guess he feels that he doesn't want to mingle with the common folks.

Probably due more due to the fact that 1. He's black and 2. What happened to Kennedy in Texas. Secret service took a real beating over Kennedy's death. You may also remember that bush2 rarely appeared to speak other than on a military base. ( or on an aircraft carrier)

 

[Lindberg]

I don't get it either, it's less than 5 minutes on the phone with a briefer. People must be just that lazy or complacent.

I hear in Soviet Russia, the NOTAMS call to get you.

While I don't call for permission every time i go putter around, the airport I fly from is within the TFR when the president is in town, and they usually have posters up in advance warning of his visit.

 

[SCCutler]

For what reason? Did he fail to comply with ATC?

Nope. And, I don'tr know whether he did or not - but we've all heard of pilots being "followed-up" on for ludicrous reasons. I knew a couple who did, and one who gained a 90-day suspension for clipping the very southern edge of P49 when it was expanded; his DME told him he was clear, but that did not matter to the FAA.

Probably due more due to the fact that 1. He's black and 2. What happened to Kennedy in Texas. Secret service took a real beating over Kennedy's death. You may also remember that bush2 rarely appeared to speak other than on a military base. ( or on an aircraft carrier)

What's his race have to do with it? Or the fact that a nut-job from New Orleans (and other places) chose Dallas as the location to kill a president?

RFK was shot in Los Angeles; Lincoln (and Reagan) were each shot in DC; what shall we make of that?

 

[Frogs97]

I'm actually in Anaheim for a conference, and noticed three Blackhawks flying around this evening. Is that commonplace, or part of the POTUS preparations?

 

[C182P]

I have noticed that Obama is going to the local Air Force base instead of the nearby civilian airport. Clinton hated going to the LRAFB and Bush never used it as well. I guess he feels that he doesn't want to mingle with the common folks.

And if he used the civilian airport instead, there would be complaints about why doesn't he use the easier-to-secure-and-less-hassle-for-the-common-folks AFB.

 

[C182P]

RFK was shot in Los Angeles; Lincoln (and Reagan) were each shot in DC; what shall we make of that?

It seems obvious to me: LA and DC are primarily composed of nut jobs.

 

[ARFlyer]

Probably due more due to the fact that 1. He's black and 2. What happened to Kennedy in Texas. Secret service took a real beating over Kennedy's death. You may also remember that bush2 rarely appeared to speak other than on a military base. ( or on an aircraft carrier)

Clinton used KLIT most of the time when he came back to visit. Quite often he used the Central Flying Service FBO. There is actually a signed AF1 photo in the main lobby from his first and last POTUS trip.

I've been lucky in my life to meet all of the living Presidents besides the current. Various family, ex-girlfriend, and school connections made that possible.

I have a hook in my old bedroom full of media, worker, and VIP neck passes.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Nope. And, I don'tr know whether he did or not - but we've all heard of pilots being "followed-up" on for ludicrous reasons. I knew a couple who did, and one who gained a 90-day suspension for clipping the very southern edge of P49 when it was expanded; his DME told him he was clear, but that did not matter to the FAA.



What's his race have to do with it? Or the fact that a nut-job from New Orleans (and other places) chose Dallas as the location to kill a president?

RFK was shot in Los Angeles; Lincoln (and Reagan) were each shot in DC; what shall we make of that?

Much easier to control security on a military base. That's what we should make of it. A lot of racism is involved with the current president and has had many threats due to his color. ( pretty common knowledge) pretty easy to see if you consider the lies told about him since he first won the presidency.

 

[Doggtyred]

For whatever reason when BHO came to Houston a few weeks ago they flew into IAH instead of their usual EFD to the national guard/DOD side... The only reason I can think of is that the freeway near EFD was under construction and perhaps they just couldn't "secure" the construction zone adequately.

Needless to say it really jammed up traffic everywhere else.. Meh..

 

[Martymccasland]

I was looking at the pictures of the aircraft at Little Rock AFB this morning and saw an Osprey painted like the other "Marine One" helicopters that's typically photographed on the White House Lawn - i.e. Sea Kings, Blackhawks, etc...

An Osprey? Have never seen a picture of Obama getting in and out of one before. So I Google and find this:
http://gizmodo.com/the-president-gets-a-personal-osprey-hes-not-allowed-t-1108783801

Seems like the president is not allowed to ride in the "Widowmaker" -- but his staff is.

Further seems like a complicated setup -- multiple types of helicopters for the same mission: shuttling the presidential entourage to/from Air Force One. Plus, it makes it quite obvious which helicopter he's *not* in. Seems like the SS would want 3-4 helicopters that look the same to keep the bad guys guessing.

Anyone know any special reasoning behind having Osprey's in the mix?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

The Pres is coming here this Thursday to Friday. A local news report indicates he will be less than 1/4 mile from my house. It will be interesting to see what sort of law enforcement presence is noticeable.

If he is traveling from the airport to wherever at the same time you are tying to drive to work, plan on being late.

 

[Clark1961]

If he is traveling from the airport to wherever at the same time you are tying to drive to work, plan on being late.

If it's anything at all like what they do around here all possible travel routes get shut down before the planned movement time until the travel is completed whenever that may be. All hail the chief and stay out of his (possible) way! They (SS, etc) are also restricting movement near his position when he is stationary for various and seemingly ever increasing distances defined as "near".

 

[JeffDG]

It seems obvious to me: LA and DC are primarily exclusively composed of nut jobs.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Brad Z]

Fixed that for ya.

Some of them even own planes.

 

[Norman]

A lot of racism is involved with the current president and has had many threats due to his color. ( pretty common knowledge) pretty easy to see if you consider the lies told about him since he first won the presidency.

Fan?

 

[JeffDG]

Fan?

Closer description would be "unthinking fan"

 

[Velocity173]

I was looking at the pictures of the aircraft at Little Rock AFB this morning and saw an Osprey painted like the other "Marine One" helicopters that's typically photographed on the White House Lawn - i.e. Sea Kings, Blackhawks, etc...

An Osprey? Have never seen a picture of Obama getting in and out of one before. So I Google and find this:
http://gizmodo.com/the-president-gets-a-personal-osprey-hes-not-allowed-t-1108783801

Seems like the president is not allowed to ride in the "Widowmaker" -- but his staff is.

Further seems like a complicated setup -- multiple types of helicopters for the same mission: shuttling the presidential entourage to/from Air Force One. Plus, it makes it quite obvious which helicopter he's *not* in. Seems like the SS would want 3-4 helicopters that look the same to keep the bad guys guessing.

Anyone know any special reasoning behind having Osprey's in the mix?

Only a terrorist would ask so many questions.

Having worked Marine One on approach, SVFR at that, I can tell you that with the procedure they use I didn't even know which one the POTUS was on. A guy with a MANPAD would have a crapshoot to hit the right aircraft. Not to mention they have the best aircraft survivability equipment around. Albeit from the lowest bidder.

 

[Martymccasland]

Only a terrorist would ask so many questions.

Having worked Marine One on approach, SVFR at that, I can tell you that with the procedure they use I didn't even know which one the POTUS was on. A guy with a MANPAD would have a crapshoot to hit the right aircraft. Not to mention they have the best aircraft survivability equipment around. Albeit from the lowest bidder.

For security, do they have multiple Marine One helicopters for ATC purposes? e.g. like a "flight of 4" all collectively called Marine One on the radio -- to achieve what you are talking about (keeping the bad guys guessing) but still at least vaguely identifying on ATC the presidential entourage?

 

[Velocity173]

For security, do they have multiple Marine One helicopters for ATC purposes? e.g. like a "flight of 4" all collectively called Marine One on the radio -- to achieve what you are talking about (keeping the bad guys guessing) but still at least vaguely identifying on ATC the presidential entourage?

Well, that would be kind of OPSEC territory. When it comes to discussing what we refer to in the military as specific "tactics, techniques and procedures," that's a no no.

 

[Lindberg]

For security, do they have multiple Marine One helicopters for ATC purposes? e.g. like a "flight of 4" all collectively called Marine One on the radio -- to achieve what you are talking about (keeping the bad guys guessing) but still at least vaguely identifying on ATC the presidential entourage?

Yes. And that's not really a secret, since it's obvious to anyone who's ever seen the president arrive or depart. It used to be two ships, I understand that it is now three in many situations, and they're planning to go to four (our maybe already have).

 

[Norman]

Big-O loves the smell of burning jet fuel.