Reporting low altitude aircraft?

CharlieTango said:
We have a local guy, lives at 5 mile final for 27. He will report me if I overfly at 1,200' for being under 500'. He's an ex deputy sheriff and an ex county supervisor.

I've been reported a number of times for 'going down, into the terrain'.

People are sure what they see with their own eyes.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. You and the ex sheriff/supervisor were both involved, so only you two can say anything regarding height. If you were at 1,200, great, you're in the clear :thumbsup: the guy being a jerk is a thing too. If he reports everyone he sees at 1,200, maybe his words won't carry as much weight.

The guy I saw was flying low. I saw it and another pilot here saw it and shot video. The only people in the thread here who actually saw it with their eyes. I saw him at about 500-600, the other guy saw him at 500. If the FSDO wants to look at the video, great, they can decide if he was low or if he was within regs. :dunno: It doesn't have to look 'scary' to be dangerous.

ClimbnSink said:
Yeah they should make all those things against the rules so no one does them anymore. So simple. Like I said the only way to stop those things is to stop all the other GA things as well. We'd all live longer.
Click to expand...

Okay, so then get rid of all the FAR's. Since apparently warning people and telling them the dangers of flying too low has no merit (in your opinion), then just take the FAR's and throw them away. I'd love for you to throw down a list of the FAR's you don't follow yourself while exercising your pilot privileges.
 
FastEddieB said:
A fellow rented my Citabria in 1996, flew it over gross, did low level aerobatics without parachutes and crashed and died, taking a teenage passenger with him.

In the newspaper report, people said he had "often entertained" crowds with aerobatic displays.

Maybe if someone had reported his antics, enforcement action may have saved his life and that of his teenage passenger. If any of those watching were fellow pilots, maybe they just didn't want to get him in trouble.

But I'm sure their deaths only interested a small circle of friends.

11803733445_3a2a47e40b_b.jpg
Click to expand...

Sad, but interesting that the family was so convinced that it wasn't the pilot's fault and "had to be something wrong with the plane".

I guess he cheated death so many times with his low level antics, in their grief, they just couldn't accept the fact that he (a former Navy pilot, with thousands of hours)... screwed up.

Curious about the 'over gross' part, since it was just the two of them. Did he have too much fuel or what? I'm not really familiar with the Citabria, although I have flown a Super Decathlon (did my TW in one).
 
Last edited:
overdrive148 said:
Not that it matters, but 23 :dunno:
Click to expand...

Actually it does, young buck. When you get older, you will understand that some things are better left alone. The next time you buy less fuel than some else thinks you should, the time you take 3 passengers with you ( now people think your over weight ), the time you make bad radio calls and create issues for he controller and other traffic, etc you will realize that you will need people to get the whole picture of events before passing judgements. How many hours do you have as a pilot? When were you proclaimed the official human altimeter?
 
overdrive148 said:
Fair enough. You and the ex sheriff/supervisor were both involved, so only you two can say anything regarding height. If you were at 1,200, great, you're in the clear :thumbsup: the guy being a jerk is a thing too. If he reports everyone he sees at 1,200, maybe his words won't carry as much weight.

The guy I saw was flying low. I saw it and another pilot here saw it and shot video. The only people in the thread here who actually saw it with their eyes. I saw him at about 500-600, the other guy saw him at 500. If the FSDO wants to look at the video, great, they can decide if he was low or if he was within regs. :dunno: It doesn't have to look 'scary' to be dangerous.



Okay, so then get rid of all the FAR's. Since apparently warning people and telling them the dangers of flying too low has no merit (in your opinion), then just take the FAR's and throw them away. I'd love for you to throw down a list of the FAR's you don't follow yourself while exercising your pilot privileges.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a video camera that records the altitude of objects on film. That's pretty snazzy!
 
Flymeariver said:
Actually it does, young buck. When you get older, you will understand that some things are better left alone. The next time you buy less fuel than some else thinks you should, the time you take 3 passengers with you ( now people think your over weight ), the time you make bad radio calls and create issues for he controller and other traffic, etc you will realize that you will need people to get the whole picture of events before passing judgements. How many hours do you have as a pilot? When were you proclaimed the official human altimeter?
Click to expand...

Here comes the belittling based on age! Oh boy, I saw this one coming from miles away. There are people older than me and younger than me with more and less flight hours and more and less experience. Once you can tie it to the situation at hand, reporting a dangerous pilot who was under regs I'll pay it some thought. I know what a low airplane looks like, so do my pilot and non-pilot friends.

Taking off with too little fuel, over-weight, making bad radio calls, creating issues for ATC and other traffic...okay, yeah, that stuff happens all the time. And it's not just young pilots if you want to start throwing your obviously superior age and flight time in that direction - I hear older pilots screwing up on frequency and making mistakes. Leaving off fuel caps. Not flipping the fuel selector. And if I did those things or made bad radio calls, damn right I expect to be called out on it so I can improve my pilot skills and be more safe in the future. I expect the tower to give me a number after busting airspace so that I can learn from my mistakes.

Anyone who thinks being corrected or called on doing something they shouldn't be doing is offensive and rude and that they should just "butt out" should check their attitude. It is in the interest of safety, nothing else. The FAR's aren't there to pee in your cereal.

I'm sure there are many cases in the NTSB report database that also have things that could've been caught but were just "left alone" because someone was ignorant enough to believe that'd be a good idea. It's good enough! Who really cares right? Not like any harm could come of it. What's the worst that can happen?

That attitude in aviation is stupid and harmful and I question the skill of pilots who demonstrate it.
 
Last edited:
SkyHog said:
I haven't seen a video camera that records the altitude of objects on film. That's pretty snazzy!
Click to expand...

It's a trivial calculation. From the object's dimensions and the angle it subtends, you can compute its distance. From its distance and its angle from the horizon, you can compute its altitude.
 
SkyHog said:
I haven't seen a video camera that records the altitude of objects on film. That's pretty snazzy!
Click to expand...

Some kind of new science, invented only recently, allowing you to compare aircraft size to other objects!

Maybe it could also show the reckless maneuvers taking place! Maybe it could show aircraft type to be backed up against radar returns with the FSDO! The possibilities are endless! Get yours today!
 
MachFly said:
Okay now I'm confused what do you have against him flying low? If you're okay with him falling once, what's the problem? It's not like he'll be able to fall twice.
Click to expand...

Funny, I asked you that same question when you tried to imply that I was being dangerous by flying at 500' (straight and level, no maneuvering except minor turns), along the 'South Shore' route, abeam the beaches, below the JFK Bravo.:rolleyes:
 
overdrive148 said:
Here comes the belittling based on age.

I know what a low airplane looks like

That attitude in aviation is stupid and harmful and I question the skill of pilots who demonstrate it.
Click to expand...


Actually, no belittling, just saying with age you will gain a different perspective :dunno:
 
Flymeariver said:
Actually it does, young buck.
Click to expand...

The OP is mature enough to have been conducting a civil, substantive discussion while several angry old men have been throwing tantrums and insults. Being older doesn't necessarily make you wiser.
 
Flymeariver said:
Actually it does, young buck. When you get older, you will understand that some things are better left alone.
Click to expand...
From what I know of some of the posters here, age does not seem to factor into their opinion. There are posters on the older side who think the pilot should be reported and ones on the younger side who think he or she should not be reported.

I think it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do regardless of the overheated arguments on both sides.
 
You two must really be the life of the party. In the end do as you feel you need to. Each FSDO has their number readily able to be found, so OP should have zero issues telling his story.
 
Flymeariver said:
Actually, no belittling, just saying with age you will gain a different perspective :dunno:
Click to expand...

"Actually it does, young buck" sounds kind of pretentious immediately after a post about my age and then jabbing about reporting someone else because ClimbnSink got my age wrong. Just saying.

I don't see how a perspective change coming with age negates the need to report people who are violating FARs and flying dangerously. While probably true, I think a younger perspective that hasn't changed and is still fresh to an industry is valuable, regardless of which one. I believe that being complacent about other pilots actions is dangerous and unacceptable, especially those who would put lives in danger recklessly. Even if it isn't my own.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, we look bad enough without yahoos like this. Promoting the aviation industry and keeping it healthy involves improving safety, and pilots who are willfully breaking FARs or disregarding criticism because they're too macho to follow the rules or report people when they need it do not help the industry. The control towers correct people, flight instructors correct students, it goes on.

95 hours total time, by the way.
 
overdrive148 said:
"Actually it does, young buck" sounds kind of pretentious immediately after a post about my age and then jabbing about reporting someone else because ClimbnSink got my age wrong. Just saying.
.
Click to expand...

My apologies if you were offended. As with any thing.....nobody will always agree, nor is it improper to have differing opinions or ways of stating positions.
 
Flymeariver said:
You two must really be the life of the party. In the end do as you feel you need to. Each FSDO has their number readily able to be found, so OP should have zero issues telling his story.
Click to expand...
You two? And yeah, thanks to the first reply before everything hit the fan, I looked up the FSDO jurisdiction for here (nearly all of Oklahoma) and I'm planning on calling them on Monday. That or the airport manager might do it.

acrophile said:
The OP is mature enough to have been conducting a civil, substantive discussion while several angry old men have been throwing tantrums and insults. Being older doesn't necessarily make you wiser.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the compliment!

Everskyward said:
From what I know of some of the posters here, age does not seem to factor into their opinion. There are posters on the older side who think the pilot should be reported and ones on the younger side who think he or she should not be reported.

I think it's up to the individual to decide what they want to do regardless of the overheated arguments on both sides.
Click to expand...
I originally started the thread just to find out the proper reporting channel and then it kind of exploded into this whole discussion. I'm probably still going to call on Monday just to let them know and maybe prevent an accident down the line. Or apparently severely limit some pilot's freedom to endanger others. I do appreciate the varying viewpoints though, I just wish there was a little higher level of maturity instead of being called a douche among other things :rolleyes2:

Flymeariver said:
My apologies if you were offended. As with any thing.....nobody will always agree, nor is it improper to have differing opinions or ways of stating positions.
Click to expand...

Aside from what I said regarding age, I do try to take what I can from people who have had more experience because there is always something to be learned. At the same time, I am apt to take what they say with a pinch of salt because things change over time. I wasn't really offended, it just came off kind of strong is all. Apology accepted! :yes:

If some people in this thread just refuse to agree with me, then we can agree to disagree and go on our merry ways. If I ever see them being reckless, you can bet it'll be the same case as I've been making in this thread so far :rolleyes2:
 
Last edited:
You should be required to issue a NOTAM when you are near an airport so all pilots will know you are watching. What a joke.
 
KA550 said:
You should be required to issue a NOTAM when you are near an airport so all pilots will know you are watching. What a joke.
Click to expand...

Okay, since you're begging the question...

What is there to be gained by not reporting someone who is flying dangerously, over a town and an airport at low altitude?

//edit

Or seeing a student jumping into a plane about to go flying off into IMC and worsening conditions that you just got out of without saying anything because it doesn't concern you?

Or letting traffic enroute to the airport know about a NORDO guy doing touch and go's before they arrive at the pattern?

Or calling up on the CTAF to let a guy ahead of you about to take off know that his tire is low, or his seatbelt is hanging out of the door, or that he left his fuel caps off?

It's all about safety and watching out for one another, for better or worse. I don't want that guy to end up killing himself or someone else so I choose to report it.
 
Last edited:
Flymeariver said:
Actually it does, young buck. When you get older, you will understand that some things are better left alone. The next time you buy less fuel than some else thinks you should, the time you take 3 passengers with you ( now people think your over weight ), the time you make bad radio calls and create issues for he controller and other traffic, etc you will realize that you will need people to get the whole picture of events before passing judgements. How many hours do you have as a pilot? When were you proclaimed the official human altimeter?
Click to expand...

I don't think those examples are comparable to the behavior he saw. While I don't know what I would do in his situation, I don't see anything wrong with giving the info he has to the FSDO if that's what he wants to do. Then they can look at the video and decide for themselves if it proves anything.

And since you seem to think it matters, I'm 69. Does that make me right? :dunno:
 
SkyHog said:
I haven't seen a video camera that records the altitude of objects on film. That's pretty snazzy!
Click to expand...

Depending on what the video shows, it might or might not be possible to apply some geometry and/or trigonometry, together with knowledge of the wingspan, to determine that.
 
Palmpilot said:
I don't think those examples are comparable to the behavior he saw. While I don't know what I would do in his situation, I don't see anything wrong with giving the info he has to the FSDO if that's what he wants to do. Then they can look at the video and decide for themselves if it proves anything.

And since you seem to think it matters, I'm 69. Does that make me right? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not Richard, you have to have your "Something to do with it" badge stamped and signed in triplicate first :rofl:

Sarcasm aside, I thank you for your viewpoint and opinion on the matter :yes:

Palmpilot said:
Depending on what the video shows, it might or might not be possible to apply some geometry and/or trigonometry, together with knowledge of the wingspan, to determine that.
Click to expand...

The video's pretty long and captures almost all of his maneuvers over the airport and the city with buildings and other things for frame of reference. Bright yellow plane, should be a pretty open and shut thing if the FSDO decides to look into it.
 
Palmpilot said:
And since you seem to think it matters, I'm 69. Does that make me right? :dunno:
Click to expand...


Richard, thanks for the quote, if you read further down you'll see where it is clearly stated that everyone does not have to agree, and each persons height perception is also different. I believe Overdrive has the right intentions in his plan, and also know that he will do what he feels is right. As far as your age............I believe I clearly stated my reason for asking, no where did I state whether old or young is right, just that with age your thought processes are different.
 
Flymeariver said:
Richard, thanks for the quote, if you read further down you'll see where it is clearly stated that everyone does not have to agree, and each persons height perception is also different. I believe Overdrive has the right intentions in his plan, and also know that he will do what he feels is right. As far as your age............I believe I clearly stated my reason for asking, no where did I state whether old or young is right, just that with age your thought processes are different.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what's your age and hours? I showed you mine, now show me yours :wink2:

(23 and 95 hours total, PPL only)
 
Overdrive, just curious... Have you seen that same A/C or pilot before ? Just wondering if those are the pilots normal habits.
 
overdrive148 said:
Out of curiosity, what's your age and hours? I showed you mine, now show me yours :wink2:

(23 and 95 hours total, PPL only)
Click to expand...

:lol: 37 and 195 logged, PPL with IR . I have been in aviation since diapers ( airline family ), so not much different from you really.

Reason asked age is because just in the last 10 years my opinions and perception of MANY things have changed.
 
I haven't, but then again I've only been working at this specific airport for a few weeks now. I looked up in the records for the hangars in our logs, then the registration online - looked to be from California. He actually ended up landing and taxiing over to the T hangars...then back again within 10 mins. Then grabbed some fuel before I could get out there and did a standard takeoff except for a very early crosswind after rotating. He also didn't run-up and took an early taxiway instead of going to the end. Neither of which is a crime.

Flymeariver said:
:lol: 37 and 195 logged, PPL with IR . I have been in aviation since diapers ( airline family ), so not much different from you really.

Reason asked age is because just in the last 10 years my opinions and perception of MANY things have changed.
Click to expand...

Fair enough! Dad was an RAF interceptor pilot in his young days, been pretty into aviation as well. Things might change, things might not, but I value your input and hope there's no harsh feelings :p I didn't mean for the thread to explode like this but yeah.

I've noticed pilots tend to butt heads a lot (and also fight each other) :goofy:
 
Last edited:
Flymeariver said:
:lol: you were close, perhaps you should be reported because you misjudged his age?:mad2:
Click to expand...
No need to report me, in the name of safety, and in light of my age judgement failure it is clear the only safe thing to do is self ground and turn in all my certificates.:rolleyes::lol:
 
ClimbnSink said:
No need to report me, in the name of safety, and in light of my age judgement failure it is clear the only safe thing to do is self ground and turn in all my certificates.:rolleyes::lol:
Click to expand...

Oh great, he's back, everyone back to work.

Flymeariver said:
Damn sweet job at that age :yes:
Click to expand...
Yeah, part time to start but aiming for something more, eventually a pilot job even if the road is rough. Graduated from ERAU last month, BS Professional Aeronautics, Management and Aviation Safety double minor.
 
Flymeariver said:
Probably a long shot, but can you post the video?
Click to expand...

I didn't actually take the video myself - I was manning the binoculars trying to grab his tail number. Another pilot on the field took it. In the interest of not publicly shaming the guy, I didn't disclose tail number or aircraft type (even though I don't agree with what he did). I might grab a screen cap from the video (when I get a copy) that shows how low he is so that people don't think I'm insane and totally unable to judge distance and altitude.
 
overdrive148 said:
I didn't actually take the video myself - I was manning the binoculars trying to grab his tail number. Another pilot on the field took it. In the interest of not publicly shaming the guy, I didn't disclose tail number or aircraft type (even though I don't agree with what he did). I might grab a screen cap from the video (when I get a copy) that shows how low he is so that people don't think I'm insane and totally unable to judge distance and altitude.
Click to expand...
I heard to bust people for low flying with pics you need something in the foreground. Maybe video is different. If you are willing to turn the guy into the man why not publicly shame him? Public shame is a better driver of safe behavior then possible action from the authorities.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I heard to bust people for low flying with pics you need something in the foreground. Maybe video is different. If you are willing to turn the guy into the man why not publicly shame him? Public shame is a better driver of safe behavior then possible action from the authorities.
Click to expand...

It's a few minute long video with plenty of stuff (light poles, farther hangars, farther buildings, the one 400' tower I was talking about earlier) in the foreground for plenty of depth perception. I don't know what they're looking for, but I imagine a video is better than a photo.

As for public shaming, I don't know, I imagine I'd have some serious pucker factor getting a phone number from the tower or while being chewed out by the tower on the phone.

Hey guys, this guy is an unsafe pilot! Or in some cases in the thread, you're cool man, keep breakin' regs! :rolleyes2:
 
Also, who added the tag (low time 'expert') to the thread? :rolleyes2: Down at the bottom

//edit
Whoever put up (ignore snarky tags), +1 to you
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top