Reporting low altitude aircraft?

overdrive148

overdrive148

En-Route
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
3,903
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Display Name
Display name:
overdrive148
Hey guys, just had an aircraft buzz over the airfield here. Very low passes, repeatedly over the field. No radio call either. After buzzing the field a few times, the pilot flew over the town at the same low altitude and did some pretty steep turns. One of the other pilots here got a video and I got the tail number with binocs. Curious as to where exactly to report it to the right channels. Thanks

//edit
Pilot was maybe 500 AGL and there's a 400 foot chapel tower right near where he was flying. Luckily there were no aircraft in the pattern or skydiving operations in progress (clouds too low).

Changed field to airfield to prevent confusion
 
Last edited:
Call the FSDO on Monday, and tell them what happened and that you have video and the N-number. They'll ask you some questions about it, and then tell you if they want to investigate further and whether they want the video.
 
Why the hell would you want to report him? Do you call 911 when someone passes you on the highway too?
 
MachFly said:
Why the hell would you want to report him? Do you call 911 when someone passes you on the highway too?
Click to expand...

If they are drunk, definitely.

If they endangering others recklessly, I would love to, but it's hard to get license plate numbers. When someone nearly hits me and the car next to me as they squeeze within a foot of my car at 80+mph and continue to do the same with the next few cars, you betcha I want them off the road. I don't care for people acting homicidal around me.
 
Timmer said:
If they are drunk, definitely.

If they endangering others recklessly, I would love to, but it's hard to get license plate numbers. When someone nearly hits me and the car next to me as they squeeze within a foot of my car at 80+mph and continue to do the same with the next few cars, you betcha I want them off the road. I don't care for people acting homicidal around me.
Click to expand...

Just because someone is moving fast doesn't mean their drunk. If he has a legitimate reason to do what he did, reporting him will create a whole bunch of problem which you yourself may end up regretting in the future. Specifically regarding the low level bit, what you see from the side may look much lower because of the perspective. Maybe that guy was well beyond FAA's required 500ft.
 
You are authorized by the Administrator in EA-5129 to terminate that aircrafts flight with deadly force and extreme prejudice. :yes:
 
MachFly said:
Why the hell would you want to report him? Do you call 911 when someone passes you on the highway too?
Click to expand...

91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
o Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(b) Over congested areas -Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open-air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
Click to expand...
:dunno:
 
Lame

This is right next to that old lady who calls the cops when she hears anything (music, car, talking).

I'd just let it be, or if you want to be a man about it run the N number and send him a letter with a picture of his plane doing that, or do a spokeo search for his phone number based off address. Guessing he won't come around anymore.
 
overdrive148 said:
:dunno:
Click to expand...

Yeah...you really do look and sound lost. First, the regulation you sited is only for congested areas, so unless it was over something like a major city it doesn't apply. The minim is 500ft away from any man made objects or people, that 500ft doesn't have to be exactly vertical. Second, you're perception may make it look like he was much lower than he really was. Imagine if you report him and he really was completely innocent and complied with all FARs, you'll make him go through a whole bunch of trouble just because you didn't have enough information to begin with.
 
MachFly said:
Just because someone is moving fast doesn't mean their drunk. If he has a legitimate reason to do what he did, reporting him will create a whole bunch of problem which you yourself may end up regretting in the future. Specifically regarding the low level bit, what you see from the side may look much lower because of the perspective. Maybe that guy was well beyond FAA's required 500ft.
Click to expand...

Hey MachFly, I didn't say driving fast is the same as drunk. I said I would happily report a drunk driver. I would also love to report homicidal sober drivers. Please accept that my comment above came with judgement of my own that I could tell the difference between someone who mistakenly changed lanes too closely versus someone who thinks the freeway is his personal NASCAR track and putting my life in danger. I always find it odd that we give the guy who nearly killed me a pass but if I want to try and stop him from killing me or others, society looks down on me.

I get the concept that we get annoyed at those calling in the law for silly reasons. I was, however, just answering the question you asked if you would report drivers. There are some times I wish I could.
 
MachFly said:
Yeah...you really do look and sound lost. First, the regulation you sited is only for congested areas, so unless it was over something like a major city it doesn't apply. The minim is 500ft away from any man made objects or people, that 500ft doesn't have to be exactly vertical. Second, you're perception may make it look like he was much lower than he really was. Imagine if you report him and he really was completely innocent and complied with all FARs, you'll make him go through a whole bunch of trouble just because you didn't have enough information to begin with.
Click to expand...

Then allow me. I see aircraft at pattern altitude around the airport all day at work, I'd like to believe that I can judge aircraft altitude near an airport on that basis.

The city has a population of ~35k, not sure what your definition of "congested" is but:

Unfortunately for the airmen, the ALJ agreed with the FAA. He concluded that the area over which the airmen had flown contained upwards of 30 homes, buildings, and structures and, as a result, was a "congested area."
Click to expand...
http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/Congested Areas Under FAR 91-119 2008-08-28.shtml

I understand that it's a case by case basis, but there's a university full of students next to the airport that has that 400 foot chapel tower that he flew close to more than once. Your argument of 500 feet horizontally is technically true, but when you're directly over a town and an airport, that's 500 feet vertical no matter how you slice it.

Also, while the 'possibility' of him being inconvenienced is there, the possibility of a dangerous or reckless pilot being removed before he ends up slamming into a skydiver or another aircraft on takeoff or landing or running into the ground is also there.

garyb said:
+1

The world would be better off with less do-gooders and zealots.
Click to expand...
Also, pardon me for being a "zealot" or "do-gooder" by following the FAR's; I don't have to remind you that most of them are written in blood. I don't get to choose if the FSDO goes after him or not. It's my responsibilty to report it as an airman.

If you're going to pick and choose the FARs that you want to follow, then why not go fly off into known icing in a C-150? :dunno:
 
Last edited:
MachFly said:
First, the regulation you [c]ited is only for congested areas, so unless it was over something like a major city it doesn't apply.
Click to expand...

Although the FAA doesn't clearly define "congested area", the term certainly isn't limited to "something like a major city". Towns and residential suburban neighborhoods also qualify.

Second, you[r] perception may make it look like he was much lower than he really was.
Click to expand...

Using the video and the aircraft's known dimensions, its distance and height can be calculated to double-check the witnesses' perceptions.
 
So apparently youre saying that a town with 35,000 people is not a congested area? you know congested doesnt mean having 20 skyscrapers around the area this town has 35K people thats congested. doing multiple fly bys at BARELY 500FT towards a college church tower passing close to the exact same altitude at the tower which is at 400ft is not okay as well as right over the college filled with students. If you have no radio i get it, its uncontrolled than just LAND... dont go flying around over the airport that low. there is NO REASON to fly around like that. Report will be made to the FSDO and footage of multiple passes will be given to them. i work at an airport FBO all day long and fly skydivers youre talking as if NOBODY knows how high 500 feet is except you. its people like that who think they own everything because they have their own plane and own the skies and the airport. get back to reality
 
Using the contact info from the registration number and talk to him person to person. Let him know that you think that he is being irresponsible.
 
Jumper_Dumper said:
So apparently youre saying that a town with 35,000 people is not a congested area? you know congested doesnt mean having 20 skyscrapers around the area this town has 35K people thats congested. doing multiple fly bys at BARELY 500FT towards a college church tower passing close to the exact same altitude at the tower which is at 400ft is not okay as well as right over the college filled with students. If you have no radio i get it, its uncontrolled than just LAND... dont go flying around over the airport that low. there is NO REASON to fly around like that. Report will be made to the FSDO and footage of multiple passes will be given to them. i work at an airport FBO all day long and fly skydivers youre talking as if NOBODY knows how high 500 feet is except you. its people like that who think they own everything because they have their own plane and own the skies and the airport. get back to reality
Click to expand...

+1

Welcome to PoA by the way! :yes:
 
I'd report him. Not much room for error or malfunction that close to groundings. Get the FSDO on his case. Odds are nothing will come of it, he'll claim he was plenty high and its your word against his. But he might think twice about doing it again, making the call well worth the time.

We look bad enough without yahoos like this.
 
What about when you know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY a plane was not legal?

I was in the pattern (800' AGL) on downwind. Something caught my eye as I'm looking at where base is prior to turning. Freakin' biplane so low he had to pull up to go over a house, pushed back over, and continued on across a subdivision and then some fields before pulling up and circling back around. The whole time well below where I am. If I had that tail number you'd better believe I'd be reporting him.

Do gooder? Tattle tail? Is this elementary school? Idiots like that ruin it for the rest of us and the sooner he's out of my sky the better.
 
steingar said:
I'd report him. Not much room for error or malfunction that close to groundings. Get the FSDO on his case. Odds are nothing will come of it, he'll claim he was plenty high and its your word against his. But he might think twice about doing it again, making the call well worth the time.

We look bad enough without yahoos like this.
Click to expand...

yes! just making the call with get him back into reality reminding him he cant just do what he wants, i guarantee if there were jumpers, he for sure wouldve hit someone
 
Its so close to the ground. If you have any emergency you're not making the runway that low, you're going into a house
 
I've dropped that dime exactly once.

I was on Key Biscayne watching the SuperStars competition. 1980's.

Some clown came flying down the beach, I'd say about 50' over bathers and spectators.

Don't know if I would have reported it, but when I saw the "N" number, it was my rental Grumman Traveler!

I assumed others would report it, and I wanted it to be absolutely clear that although I was the owner, I was not the pilot. I did not hesitate giving the FAA the renter's information.

In favor of reporting things like this is the feelings of guilt one might have NOT reporting it and having the pilot continue his behavior until a fatal - maybe even one killing people on the ground. I know it would haunt me, knowing I just might have prevented it.
 
Timmer said:
Hey MachFly, I didn't say driving fast is the same as drunk. I said I would happily report a drunk driver. I would also love to report homicidal sober drivers. Please accept that my comment above came with judgement of my own that I could tell the difference between someone who mistakenly changed lanes too closely versus someone who thinks the freeway is his personal NASCAR track and putting my life in danger. I always find it odd that we give the guy who nearly killed me a pass but if I want to try and stop him from killing me or others, society looks down on me.

I get the concept that we get annoyed at those calling in the law for silly reasons. I was, however, just answering the question you asked if you would report drivers. There are some times I wish I could.
Click to expand...

Okay if you really can identify that he's drunk then I can understand you. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand it.
 
acrophile said:
It's his word against a video.
Click to expand...

His word won't mean anything if FSDO gets a hold of the radar tapes from OK City. Hopefully the pilot was either below radar or was smart enough to turn his transponder off.
 
Jumper_Dumper said:
So apparently youre saying that a town with 35,000 people is not a congested area? you know congested doesnt mean having 20 skyscrapers around the area this town has 35K people thats congested. doing multiple fly bys at BARELY 500FT towards a college church tower passing close to the exact same altitude at the tower which is at 400ft is not okay as well as right over the college filled with students. If you have no radio i get it, its uncontrolled than just LAND... dont go flying around over the airport that low. there is NO REASON to fly around like that. Report will be made to the FSDO and footage of multiple passes will be given to them. i work at an airport FBO all day long and fly skydivers youre talking as if NOBODY knows how high 500 feet is except you. its people like that who think they own everything because they have their own plane and own the skies and the airport. get back to reality
Click to expand...

Hell of a first post.
 
MachFly said:
Okay if you really can identify that he's drunk then I can understand you. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand it.
Click to expand...

"Wow, those people across the street are sure slugging it out! It could be domestic violence or a mugging or just two friends fighting. I'm not sure so I won't call the cops." :rolleyes2:
 
overdrive148 said:
Then allow me. I see aircraft at pattern altitude around the airport all day at work, I'd like to believe that I can judge aircraft altitude near an airport on that basis.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to put his certificate on the line simply based on your judgement?
 
I'd like to vote in favor of contacting the pilot directly if possible. There's something about our society these days that people are afraid to confront each other and they want somebody else to be the middleman.

Neighbors too loud? First time I'll go right up to their door and ask them to keep it down. If it becomes a pattern and my talks don't work then of course I'll get the police involved, but if you don't have the guts to talk to them the first time then shame on you and grow a pair.

OP, this is in no way directed at you by the way, it's just a general observation that it may be a better idea to go man to man with somebody then behind their back. Once again, this is not directed at you specifically, just a general observation about life.
 
When did pilots become such backstabbing catty little girls? Makes me want to go down to the airport video and report everything that ain't perfect. Cause that is the world you ladies have built.
 
ClimbnSink said:
When did pilots become such backstabbing catty little girls? Makes me want to go down to the airport video and report everything that ain't perfect. Cause that is the world you ladies have built.
Click to expand...

Good question.
 
Darwin has a strange way of dealing with people who flaunt the rules in a reckless way...
 
MachFly said:
Are you willing to put his certificate on the line simply based on your judgement?
Click to expand...

Are you willing to live with the consequences of not reporting it and it becoming a bunch of fatalities on the ground? You'd think a real acro pilot would know that there are aerobatic areas for a reason, and those are assuredly over sparsely populated areas and not directly over towns. Just my two cents.

I'm not putting his certificate on the line - he is, by flying too low over populated areas. The FSDO gets to review the information and decide if that's a necessary course of action, not me.

ClimbnSink said:
When did pilots become such backstabbing catty little girls? Makes me want to go down to the airport video and report everything that ain't perfect. Cause that is the world you ladies have built.
Click to expand...

Backstabbing? Like I said, the FAR's are more often than not written in blood. The rules are there for a reason - safety. If you want to contend that, be my guest, but don't pick and choose what FARs you want to follow and which you think are built by "ladies".

Pilots lost their lives to allow us to create rules and regulations on doing one thing - preventing more accidents. Calling them (and the process of improving safety) girlish is, in my opinion, pretty disrespectful. The NTSB accident report database is chock full of pilots who have done this kind of thing and killed themselves and people on the ground.
 
Last edited:
I dont know how the whole drunk flying thing came into play here but regardless its going to be reported and yes i will put his license on the line and show the FSDO that clip
 
Dammit.

That old lady across the street watered her lawn AGAIN. This is the SECOND TIME THIS WEEK!

We have a drought condition. This is an emergency. There is now a $500 fine for wasting water.

I'm calling 911 to report it. I'll show her ass a lesson.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Dammit.

That old lady across the street watered her lawn AGAIN. This is the SECOND TIME THIS WEEK!

We have a drought condition. This is an emergency. There is now a $500 fine for wasting water.

I'm calling 911 to report it. I'll show her ass a lesson.
Click to expand...

I didn't decide that it was an "emergency" to "waste water" - it's not to spite the pilot or "show anyone", it's in the regs. :dunno:
 
Kelvin said:
Darwin has a strange way of dealing with people who flaunt the rules in a reckless way...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that "flaunting" the rules has never caused an aircraft accident!
 
Sac Arrow said:
Dammit.

That old lady across the street watered her lawn AGAIN. This is the SECOND TIME THIS WEEK!

We have a drought condition. This is an emergency. There is now a $500 fine for wasting water.

I'm calling 911 to report it. I'll show her ass a lesson.
Click to expand...

Had to remind me of a Phil Ochs song from the 60's, "Outside Of A Small Circle Of Friends"

Oh, look outside the window
There's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes
And now she's being stabbed

Maybe we should call the cops
And try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun
I'd hate to blow the game

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Ridin' down the highway
Yes, my back is gettin' stiff
Thirteen cars are piled up
They're hangin' on a cliff

Now maybe we should pull them back
With our towin' chain
But we gotta move and we might get sued
And it looks like it's gonna rain

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Sweatin' in the ghetto
With the colored and the poor
The rats have joined the babies
Who are sleepin' on the floor

Now wouldn't it be a riot
If they really blew their tops?
But they got too much already
And besides we've got the cops

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Oh, there's a dirty paper
Using sex to make a sale
The Supreme Court was so upset
They sent him off to jail

Maybe we should help the fiend
And take away his fine
But we're busy reading Playboy
And the Sunday New York Times

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Smokin' marihuana
Is more fun than drinkin' beer
But a friend of ours was captured
And they gave him thirty years

Maybe we should raise our voices
Ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag
Besides we're much too high

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends

Oh, look outside the window
There's a woman being grabbed
They've dragged her to the bushes
And now she's being stabbed

Maybe we should call the cops
And try to stop the pain
But Monopoly is so much fun
I'd hate to blow the game

And I'm sure
It wouldn't interest anybody
Outside of a small circle of friends
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top