Raptor Aircraft

Tarheelpilot said:
Just watching it on his taxi test makes me wonder if it will stay in one piece long enough to make a circuit
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I'm not sure how many taxi tests that thing can survive.. his gear system nearly fell apart on one of the last taxi tests!

DaleB said:
nonsensical approach to solving an aileron problem
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It was actually infuriating that he spoke with so much authority and conviction over that absolutely BONKERS way of problem solving.. "let me wiggle the wing and see what the aileron does, interesting, what if I ignore all aerodynamic loads and add some weight, randomly, somewhere.. gee, a little better, I'm a genious!"
It's insulting to real pilots and aviators

Honestly this guy is building life size adult legos
 
Tantalum said:
I'm not sure how many taxi tests that thing can survive.. his gear system nearly fell apart on one of the last taxi tests!


It was actually infuriating that he spoke with so much authority and conviction over that absolutely BONKERS way of problem solving.. "let me wiggle the wing and see what the aileron does, interesting, what if I ignore all aerodynamic loads and add some weight, randomly, somewhere.. gee, a little better, I'm a genious!"
It's insulting to real pilots and aviators

Honestly this guy is building life size adult legos
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If by 'Legos' you mean 'death trap', I agree.
 
I think best case it will eventually fade into a non-flying hangar exhibit; worst case we'll see the adult equivalent of jumping off the roof holding a bedsheet as a parachute. And not a garage roof, more like a 10-story building.
 
cscheidl said:
But looking at his last videos with those helpless and well, lonely, actions to bring his dream close to its first flight, there should be more support from all of the community.
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I don't believe 'the community' has any obligation to volunteer to help a struggling business venture. If you want to help, sure, but there's no mandate to do so.

cscheidl said:
All the severe remaining problems are no game stoppers.
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That does not appear to be the case to at least one casual observer. Even if the problems are all solvable taken individually, the aggregate may be overwhelming in terms of time and money.

Nauga,
who ran out of red flags a while ago
 
Tantalum said:
It's insulting to real pilots and aviators...
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Thinking that the average 'real pilot and aviator' could properly test, diagnose, and correct these kinds of issues, much less design an airplane to avoid them to begin with, is insulting to engineers and designers. ;)

Nauga,
who knows where to draw the X
 
nauga said:
could properly test, diagnose, and correct these kinds of issues, much less design an airplane to avoid them
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Not that I'm a "real" pilot or aviator.. but most of us here (including myself) would at least know better (I'd hope) that to even attempt to test, diagnose, and correct flutter issues. It's one thing to "design" a plane on a piece of paper, but hire some professional help

*pilots/aviators I meant and was thinking more of the Peter Garrison types..
 
cscheidl said:
there should be more support from all of the community
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His support was manifest in all the initial deposits people made for the plane, and it seems like many have attempted to offer him help, guidance, etc. only to be met with dismissal.. at some point this guy has to sleep in the bed he made..
 
I'm not condoning or condemning this guy, BUT I seriously doubt 99.9999% of the people on this board could even think of how to attempt what he is doing let alone accomplishing as much as he has, good or bad......
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
You have a pretty low opinion of the membership.
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How many here have built a "kit" experimental plane??
How many more have built a complete airplane of there own design??
Will it fly?, I don't know. Will he get it all figured out in the end?, I don't know that either.
It's not a low opinion of membership, it's about some of the comments that have been made.....
 
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My impression is there are a fair number of members with sufficient engineering background, some cases within aerospace, to have valid opinions on the technical situation and to be much more capable than this guy at getting it done. Frankly as a project manager he doesn’t have to possess the talent, just the ability to lead and manage. I don’t see anything impressive about what he’s done.
 
1RTK1 said:
I'm not condoning or condemning this guy, BUT I seriously doubt 99.9999% of the people on this board could even think of how to attempt what he is doing let alone accomplishing as much as he has good or bad......
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I could. I'd buy a Velocity kit and put a different engine in it. I'd be flying sooner than this guy ever will.

Something I honestly don't understand. I keep hearing that the Raptor designer really isn't an airplane designer and has limited expertise. At least that's what I've gotten out of this thread. If so, why did so many people give the guy money? I usually don't blow my hard-earned dough on someone who hasn't qualifications for the job.
 
Even aside from having the engineering chops to design an airplane... if you lack the ability (or willingness) to see something that most absolutely did not work out the way you planned it, and find someone who can help figure out how to fix it... then you're destined to fail.

It's not like the guy is really breaking much new ground here. It's carbon fiber aircraft structure, they've been done before. The knowledge and expertise exists, he just doesn't have it (quite obviously) ans isn't willing to learn it, or pay for it. Or maybe he will learn it, through many sad experiments. That's not really a valid basis for telling people you have a practical design for an airplane... you don't. You have an idea for an airplane, like millions of other dreamers. It isn't enough foundation for a "business".
steingar said:
Something I honestly don't understand. I keep hearing that the Raptor designer really isn't an airplane designer and has limited expertise. At least that's what I've gotten out of this thread. If so, why did so many people give the guy money? I usually don't blow my hard-earned dough on someone who hasn't qualifications for the job.
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There's a sucker born every minute.
 
1RTK1 said:
I'm not condoning or condemning this guy, BUT I seriously doubt 99.9999% of the people on this board could even think of how to attempt what he is doing let alone accomplishing as much as he has good or bad......
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Well said. I've criticized the guy and the process, however remain impressed he took the initiative to invent and build an air frame and interior to that scale. Even if it never flys, what he built so far shows a lot of craftsmanship. His interior pillar post, doors, panel & glare shield for example look a heck of a lot nicer than the factory RV-10 used for demos. No-comment on airworthiness or engineering.
 
NordicDave said:
Well said. I've criticized the guy and the process, however remain impressed he took the initiative to invent and build an air frame and interior to that scale. Even if it never flys, what he built so far shows a lot of craftsmanship. His interior pillar post, doors, panel & glare shield for example look a heck of a lot nicer than the factory RV-10 used for demos. No-comment on airworthiness or engineering.
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I agree. He picked a really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally tough road and he's stuck to it. His persistence alone is worth admiring.

That said...

I kind of checked into this process late in the game, but when he came out with an empty weight over 3,000 pounds I was like uh oh... and it seems to have only gotten worse from there.
 
NordicDave said:
Well said. I've criticized the guy and the process, however remain impressed he took the initiative to invent and build an air frame and interior to that scale. Even if it never flys, what he built so far shows a lot of craftsmanship. His interior pillar post, doors, panel & glare shield for example look a heck of a lot nicer than the factory RV-10 used for demos. No-comment on airworthiness or engineering.
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but... therein lies the problem, all flash no substance. vans builds a factory demo as he builds his own planes. light, spartan, strong, and fast. he is an engineer first. to van its about meeting the design goal. everybody knows that there are really fantastic examples of vans aircraft out there to be seen. but those with slick interiors, fancy panels, heated seats and all the wizz bang things are HEAVY. the factory demos do not have that but the structure is never in question. spartan interiors also do not cover up the structure in a vans aircraft so prospective buyers can see what under the nice leather sidewalls holding the wings on. peter seems to be putting flash and marketing before good design principals. rule number one, if you do not have the engineering background to design an aircraft, don't ignore the people that do that try to help you along. THAT, seems to be the issue with the raptor. I wish him luck, but I also do not want to see somebody get killed or injured in the process, and it my feeling that if he insists on flying it without some serious mods that have been told to him from some very smart people thats exactly what will happen.
 
NordicDave said:
Well said. I've criticized the guy and the process, however remain impressed he took the initiative to invent and build an air frame and interior to that scale. Even if it never flys, what he built so far shows a lot of craftsmanship. His interior pillar post, doors, panel & glare shield for example look a heck of a lot nicer than the factory RV-10 used for demos. No-comment on airworthiness or engineering.
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AA5Bman said:
I agree. He picked a really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally tough road and he's stuck to it. His persistence alone is worth admiring.
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This seems to be the problem with the world today. Dreamers who have no way to properly execute their dream are held up as the model to follow and be admired. Must be the engineer in me, but I'd prefer to admire someone with a dream who has sufficient humility to admit what they don't know and pull in (and listen to) the experts who do. I guess thats why I am not in Sales.
 
NordicDave said:
....Even if it never flys, what he built so far shows a lot of craftsmanship. [...] No-comment on airworthiness or engineering.
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A finely crafted but poorly-engineered airplane that is not airworthy is yard art.

Nauga,
who comments in the general, not the specific
 
1RTK1 said:
I'm not condoning or condemning this guy, BUT I seriously doubt 99.9999% of the people on this board could even think of how to attempt what he is doing let alone accomplishing as much as he has, good or bad......
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Yeah? Front me several million dollars and stand back. Be prepared to be utterly amazed in 3 to 5 years...
 
Lachlan said:
Yeah? Front me several million dollars and stand back. Be prepared to be utterly amazed in 3 to 5 years...
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at the fact that 3 to 5 million bucks have evaporated, and there's still no airplane...

:)
 
Lachlan said:
1RTK1 said: ↑
I'm not condoning or condemning this guy, BUT I seriously doubt 99.9999% of the people on this board could even think of how to attempt what he is doing let alone accomplishing as much as he has, good or bad..….

Yeah? Front me several million dollars and stand back. Be prepared to be utterly amazed in 3 to 5 years...
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I still stand by my statement. Show me someone that has attempted to do what he is doing...………..
There is an old saying "Talk is cheap" not directing this at you, just a general statement....
 
1RTK1 said:
I still stand by my statement. Show me someone that has attempted to do what he is doing...………..
There is an old saying "Talk is cheap" not directing this at you, just a general statement....
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What? Design and build an airplane from scratch?

Let’s see... Orville and Wilbur. Douglas, Cessna, Mooney, VanGrunsven, Rutan, Bellanca....
 
Wow, you guys missed it didn't you.

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How many here have built a "kit" experimental plane??
How many more have built a complete airplane of there own design??
Will it fly?, I don't know. Will he get it all figured out in the end?, I don't know that either.
It's not a low opinion of membership, it's about some of the comments that have been made.....
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It was relevant the first time, You were unable to understand the message.
How many planes have you designed and built??
Arm chair quarterbacking is easy, doing isn't.
 
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1RTK1 said:
Wow, you guys missed it didn't you.

ALL THE PEOPLE HERE RIPPING HIM FOR EVERY LITTLE THING THEY CAN THINK OF WHETHER THEY ARE RIGHT OR NOT...………………...
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Which little thing?

Being 1,000# overweight?
An airframe that appears woefully under-engineered?
Control systems that flop around like they are made of playdough?
A reduction drive that is giving him fits because it goes against all of the best practices?
An engine that has badly mismatched turbos for his stated mission?

There are big problems in this project. To start with, he should have bought a set of Cozy plans or downloaded a set of Open-EZ plans to use as a sanity check for the structure and control systems.
 
Danny Maher took only 7 months to design, build and fly the first Velocity prototype. I believe he did it all by himself. Had kits shipping the next year.

The Raptor has taken 5 years, several employees including a former Velocity, the benefit of computer design and many, many more $$$ and has yet to fly. Helluva an accomplishment.
 
1RTK1 said:
It was relevant the first time, You were unable to understand the message.
How many planes have you designed and built??
Arm chair quarterbacking is easy, doing isn't.
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I understood you just fine. I don’t agree with you. I don’t expect you to prove your position. Why do you expect me to prove mine?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I understood you just fine. I don’t agree with you. I don’t expect you to prove your position. Why do you expect me to prove mine?
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That quote was directed at another.
You don't have to agree with me and I never asked you to prove your point, that was not my point. I agree the designer has made mistakes.
Unfortunately Most seem to miss the point I was trying to make and it is not worth my effort trying to clarify what I said/meant, it wasn't understood.
 
1RTK1 said:
That quote was directed at another.
You don't have to agree with me and I never asked you to prove your point, that was not my point. I agree the designer has made mistakes.
Unfortunately Most seem to miss the point I was trying to make and it is not worth my effort trying to clarify what I said/meant, it wasn't understood.
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I thought you were driving at the idea his efforts were flawed and most likely will fail but should still be commended because he achieved something most could not just getting as far along as he is now. Is that not what you were saying?
 
1RTK1 said:
I'm not condoning or condemning this guy, BUT I seriously doubt 99.9999% of the people on this board could even think of how to attempt what he is doing let alone accomplishing as much as he has, good or bad......
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Outside of the selling aspect, I don't see what he has done as an accomplishment. His air frame isn't unique, the idea of an auto conversion isn't unique. I'm sure more than .0001% of us could whip up a modified air frame in CAD, totally disregarded experienced builders and engineers, and wipe our asses with AC 43.13.
 
1RTK1 said:
It was relevant the first time, You were unable to understand the message.
How many planes have you designed and built??
Arm chair quarterbacking is easy, doing isn't.
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None. Do I have the mechanical aptitude to build one? Absolutely. The design experience to come up with a design? Yup. The ability to step back and realize I need a professional aircraft engineer's help in combining those 2 things? 100%. Just because I haven't done it is not for lack of wanting to or ability to, just like probably hundreds of other people on this board.
 
I just saw the latest video with his “fix” for the flexing aileron pulleys.

Is there a facepalm emoji?

And he mentioned a whining noise that turned out to be the comments section of the last video. I went and looked. Most of them seemed to be like all the rest. “Great job”, “Follow your dreams”, “have you thought about this to fix...”.
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
I thought you were driving at the idea his efforts were flawed and most likely will fail but should still be commended because he achieved something most could not just getting as far along as he is now. Is that not what you were saying?
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I think "most could not" is not really accurate. Most people who have no clue what they're doing COULD do it, sand one actually has. I certainly cold, if my judgment were sufficiently off kilter. Knowing that I've got no business trying to design and scratch build an airplane like keeps me from doing it, nothing else.

Unduly harsh, I know. Mean old dream crusher me. Hey, I don't care if he flogs that poor thing for another decade. Let's just not try to pretend there's a significant chance of it achieving sustained, non-fatal flight, let alone commercial success. Just my humble opinion. And yeah, I know you're not the one who said that originally, but I'm working and can devote only about 5% of available brain to this. I'm sure it shows.
 
donjohnston said:
I just saw the latest video with his “fix” for the flexing aileron pulleys.

Is there a facepalm emoji?

And he mentioned a whining noise that turned out to be the comments section of the last video. I went and looked. Most of them seemed to be like all the rest. “Great job”, “Follow your dreams”, “have you thought about this to fix...”.
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I've been keeping up on his videos pretty regularly. It appears that he has started blocking some folks from being able to make comments. His "whining" noise video that he mentioned seemed to have a reduction in comment count by about 10-15 very suddenly, and several comments that were critical of his decisions seem to have disappeared...... He is hangared down the way from the hangar I use, and I've been down to see the project and talk to him on a number of occasions. He's a nice enough guy, and doesn't seem to be trying to hide anything, although I've pretty much quit going down there in recent weeks. I wish him well, but I've decided I should not appear to be associated with this project....
 
To the "How many airplanes have YOU designed and flown?" question, I say, just because I'm no cinematographer doesn't mean I can't tell when I've seen this movie before. I was a big fan of the BD-10, -12, and -14.

As to admiration of his persistence in the face of... *ahem*... adversity, I think it's a sign of mental illness. Those who laud him with attaboys and berate the naysayers are enablers.
 
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