Raptor Aircraft

FormerHangie said:
Their proposed empty weight and extremely optimistic performance claims give me pause. A 200 hp RV weights more than 1000 lbs and cruises at 210 mph. DarkAero claims their 200 hp, retractable gear airplane will weigh 750 pounds and cruise at 275 mph. It doesn't seem likely. At least they had the sense to choose a existing aero engine. Hopefully they will come up with a successful airplane, even if it doesn't meet these claims.
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The RV series is built by production methods dating back almost 80 years. Most of the airframes are built to a +6/-3G standard and designed for relatively short runways. Dark Aero is using far more modern techniques and will not be aerobatic or nearly as capable on short runways. Lite well built RV4’s are often well under 1000 lbs. The 200hp IO360 has a dry weight around 330lbs. The UL engine 238 lbs.
 
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I'm really curious. If Peter had not had the help early on that he ran off, who here thinks he would have ever gotten this far. I see people give him credit for actually designing and building the plane, but I'd guess if it wasn't for the engineers that got him started, even the flight test guys that walked away, he'd be no where close.
 
Peter’s such a goon. Buys a salvage engine, doesn’t think to inspect it properly and it has a damaged pulley causing serpentine wear. That’s normal!
 

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Racerx said:
Is there a market for a fast, small 2 place? At their price point? Or will it be a swearingen?
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Glassair III? Of course, that's not sold anymore, so....

Now that the kids are grown the DarkAero would do for some of our flying. I'm not sure it has enough luggage space. We usually pack light, but sometimes bring stuff to the kids, or home. It wouldn't work for my Angel Flight missions though.



Wayne
 
wayne said:
Glassair III? Of course, that's not sold anymore, so....

Now that the kids are grown the DarkAero would do for some of our flying. I'm not sure it has enough luggage space. We usually pack light, but sometimes bring stuff to the kids, or home. It wouldn't work for my Angel Flight missions though.

Wayne
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Darkaero seems like a single point design. 2 people, XC, fast. I think the market for that is pretty limited, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. This is where the RV series fits a lot of missions. Formation, acro, short field, just putzing around, plus relatively fast with good range.
 
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A leaf blower runs a blower-fan at high speed to move a lot of air ..... Peter decided to convert his to a vacuum to suck up the metal filings from his machine shop .... what a blunder ... that grit will destroy the impeller very quickly .... made my jaw drop watching the video.

A shop vac would be suitable because the impeller is behind a series of filters that protect the fan.

.
 
kyleb said:
Darkaero seems like a single point design. 2 people, XC, fast. I think the market for that is pretty limited, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. This is where the RV series fits a lot of missions. Formation, acro, short field, just putzing around, plus relatively fast with good range.
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Was exactly my point. Very cool concept. Very cool build. But after the initial deposits is it a sustainable model? 750 pound useful load with 460lbs of max fuel. It's barely a 2 place. It's black with a canopy. Air conditioning? Probably not as they're weight conscious. Paint it white? Why name it dark aero?. She gonna get toasty. Cool project. Cool design. Well built, by real engineers. They've done actual testing with what they could test so far.. But it doesn't fit my mission at all. Would it fit yours? I'd like fast cross countries, but I like to bring people or the pup and some gear. Granted my pointer is only 37lbs. If there's another person, is there room for a flight bag?
 
A Martin said:
.

A leaf blower runs a blower-fan at high speed to move a lot of air ..... Peter decided to convert his to a vacuum to suck up the metal filings from his machine shop .... what a blunder ... that grit will destroy the impeller very quickly .... made my jaw drop watching the video.

A shop vac would be suitable because the impeller is behind a series of filters that protect the fan.

.
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Same mentality he has when it comes to the Raptor. Ignore the tried and true methods while "engineering" some work around that defies logic.
 
Racerx said:
Was exactly my point. Very cool concept. Very cool build. But after the initial deposits is it a sustainable model? 750 pound useful load with 460lbs of max fuel. It's barely a 2 place. It's black with a canopy. Air conditioning? Probably not as they're weight conscious. Paint it white? Why name it dark aero?. She gonna get toasty. Cool project. Cool design. Well built, by real engineers. They've done actual testing with what they could test so far.. But it doesn't fit my mission at all. Would it fit yours? I'd like fast cross countries, but I like to bring people or the pup and some gear. Granted my pointer is only 37lbs. If there's another person, is there room for a flight bag?
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If they're successful, maybe their next plane design will be a little more useful. Much like how Vans started out.
 
A Martin said:
.

A leaf blower runs a blower-fan at high speed to move a lot of air ..... Peter decided to convert his to a vacuum to suck up the metal filings from his machine shop .... what a blunder ... that grit will destroy the impeller very quickly .... made my jaw drop watching the video.

A shop vac would be suitable because the impeller is behind a series of filters that protect the fan.

.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I have a gas handheld Ryobi leaf blower that has an (awkward) attachment to turn it into a leaf vac. I've never used it once, but it was set up from the factory to do that. May have been a way to get people to chew up the impeller more quickly and buy a new unit, lol. I would also imagine that the shop vac is more effective at providing vacuum in a more directed fashion. Either way, the Raptor proves you "can't fix stupid."
 
SoonerAviator said:
To be fair, I have a gas handheld Ryobi leaf blower that has an (awkward) attachment to turn it into a leaf vac. I've never used it once, but it was set up from the factory to do that. May have been a way to get people to chew up the impeller more quickly and buy a new unit, lol. I would also imagine that the shop vac is more effective at providing vacuum in a more directed fashion. Either way, the Raptor proves you "can't fix stupid."
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I occasionally use my leaf blower as a blower, but it's spent much more of its life sucking up leaves and spitting the chopped up bits into bags. You can fit about 3 times as many leaves in a bag that way. It's a Toro that, like your Ryobi, was designed for that job with a 6" or so pickup tube that attaches to the intake for the impeller. Nothing has damaged the impeller so far -- of course I'm not sucking up metal bits, either, but I doubt aluminum shavings or chips would bother it much.
 
The mission of the Dark Aero is the same as the early Lanceairs and the Glasairs. Small, fast, two people. Folks bough them and folks built them. I suspect the Dark Aero guys will do well if they can ever launch their crate. I'm really impressed with their operation and hope they make it. I definitely think there's a market for what they're selling.
 
steingar said:
The mission of the Dark Aero is the same as the early Lanceairs and the Glasairs. Small, fast, two people. Folks bough them and folks built them. I suspect the Dark Aero guys will do well if they can ever launch their crate. I'm really impressed with their operation and hope they make it. I definitely think there's a market for what they're selling.
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Putting down a deposit?
 
DaleB said:
I occasionally use my leaf blower as a blower, but it's spent much more of its life sucking up leaves and spitting the chopped up bits into bags. You can fit about 3 times as many leaves in a bag that way. It's a Toro that, like your Ryobi, was designed for that job with a 6" or so pickup tube that attaches to the intake for the impeller. Nothing has damaged the impeller so far -- of course I'm not sucking up metal bits, either, but I doubt aluminum shavings or chips would bother it much.
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I don't bag leaves/yard debris because I have over a dozen trees on a 3/4 acre lot, lol. It would be a fruitless endeavor to bag anything. I haven't used the Ryobi in 3-4 years since I bought an Echo backpack blower that was better suited to moving the volume of leaves I was dealing with. I honestly need to sell the Ryobi for $25 to someone who has a use for it, as I've been staring at it in the corner of the workshop for years.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I don't bag leaves/yard debris because I have over a dozen trees on a 3/4 acre lot, lol. It would be a fruitless endeavor to bag anything. I haven't used the Ryobi in 3-4 years since I bought an Echo backpack blower that was better suited to moving the volume of leaves I was dealing with. I honestly need to sell the Ryobi for $25 to someone who has a use for it, as I've been staring at it in the corner of the workshop for years.
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We have two BIG maples, two smaller maples, and a few other odds & ends on our 1/3 acre lot. Lots of leaves. Last year I (way over)bought a riding mower. Shortly thereafter I bought a tow-behind yard sweeper. That cut about two days off of our leaf clearing operations. Now if only we could get away with a burn barrel. The City frowns on that, but who doesn't love the smell of leaves burning in the fall?
 
A Martin said:
.

A leaf blower runs a blower-fan at high speed to move a lot of air ..... Peter decided to convert his to a vacuum to suck up the metal filings from his machine shop .... what a blunder ... that grit will destroy the impeller very quickly .... made my jaw drop watching the video.

A shop vac would be suitable because the impeller is behind a series of filters that protect the fan.

.
Click to expand...
Not to rain on your parade, but my commercial woodshop and many millions of wood and metalworking shops use dust collectors that use high speed impeller fans with a constant stream of wood (or aluminum and grinding dust from where my used collector came from) going through them for tens of thousands of hours. My used collector has groves worn in it from 20 years of abrasive dust in the aluminum foundry grinding operation, but I suspect that it will withstand a few thousand hours more of wood shavings and the occasional small tape measure (6"-8" collector pipe sucks up some interesting things - I have 10 seconds to get to eh shut off if I hear a tool bouncing through the lines!). It is true that when it decides to explode it may cause some damage (being a 20" diameter metal impeller at 3600 RPM), but it is located on the other side of the wall and not where people are except to empty the collector.
 
DaleB said:
We have two BIG maples, two smaller maples, and a few other odds & ends on our 1/3 acre lot. Lots of leaves. Last year I (way over)bought a riding mower. Shortly thereafter I bought a tow-behind yard sweeper. That cut about two days off of our leaf clearing operations. Now if only we could get away with a burn barrel. The City frowns on that, but who doesn't love the smell of leaves burning in the fall?
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Ours are all oak trees with a 60' Black Walnut and a 50' Southern Magnolia mixed in for good measure. I usually blow the leaves into one spot and transfer them onto a huge tarp to drag tothe back corner of the yard which normally makes a pile about 10'x12' and about 4' tall at the center. Takes all weekend to burn it down along with the other limbs/debris that get tossed into it. I usually have to do it twice a year (once in Fall and once in Spring). I'm seriously considering one of the tow behind Leaf Vacs to drag around behind the Kubota garden tractor to speed it up a bit. I love the shade from the trees, but man they make a mess from November to April (all year long for that Magnolia).
 
SoonerAviator said:
Ours are all oak trees with a 60' Black Walnut and a 50' Southern Magnolia mixed in for good measure. I usually blow the leaves into one spot and transfer them onto a huge tarp to drag tothe back corner of the yard which normally makes a pile about 10'x12' and about 4' tall at the center. Takes all weekend to burn it down along with the other limbs/debris that get tossed into it. I usually have to do it twice a year (once in Fall and once in Spring). I'm seriously considering one of the tow behind Leaf Vacs to drag around behind the Kubota garden tractor to speed it up a bit. I love the shade from the trees, but man they make a mess from November to April (all year long for that Magnolia).
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Bought the leaf vac last year. I've got 3 acres that I mow that will be covered with leaves from hickory, maple, and oaks. My problem is I've got the zero turn and the leaf vac doesn't work well. Just now then into separate piles and tow the vac with the UTV. One of my better purchases of 2020
 
steingar said:
The mission of the Dark Aero is the same as the early Lanceairs and the Glasairs. Small, fast, two people. Folks bough them and folks built them...I definitely think there's a market for what they're selling.
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...yet neither has been able to sustain production.

Nauga,
whose little piggie went to market
 
Racerx said:
Was exactly my point. Very cool concept. Very cool build. But after the initial deposits is it a sustainable model? 750 pound useful load with 460lbs of max fuel. It's barely a 2 place.
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With the speed and fuel burn the airplane is supposed to have, 460 pounds of fuel is a LOT. At 10 GPH, you're looking at almost 8 hours of endurance. No sane person wants to sit in a normal side by side 2 place cockpit for that long. So, offload 200 pounds of fuel and you can put 500 pounds of people and stuff in it. That's probably good for 90% of situations.
 
Racerx said:
Bought the leaf vac last year. I've got 3 acres that I mow that will be covered with leaves from hickory, maple, and oaks. My problem is I've got the zero turn and the leaf vac doesn't work well. Just now then into separate piles and tow the vac with the UTV. One of my better purchases of 2020
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Most amazing thread drift ever! :D
 
...And, he's back, and there was some excitement.

After around 10 minutes in the air, Peter urgently advised the tower he wanted to return to the field and land opposite traffic on 17. ("I'm not declaring an emergency yet but may do so in the next 30 seconds.") Tower cleared him to land on 17, but he then incredulously said he might bring it around to enter right base for 35... prompting me to yell, "LAND THE ******NED PLANE!" at my computer...

He then changed his mind again and stuck with landing on 17, and fortunately it sounds like he made it down without further incident. FWIW, he sounded pretty frantic - more so than during the previous emergency - but IMHO he deserves some kudos for making the choice to get it on the ground when he did.
 
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