[rant, but not a great one]Engine auto shutoff disablement[/not great rant]

[Sac Arrow]

Okay, so I'm driving around in a 2017 Ford Fusion (long story, don't ask) and while it's really not that bad of a car, actually it is quite nice and comfy and it smells nice too and has lots of nice techno-geek gadgetry and lots of lights and displays and a little camera thingie in the back I don't use, but....

The engine shuts down every single time I come to a complete stop. Every single time. Those of you who know me, know that I drive in places where that's like every few feet, even on the freeways at rush hour. Now I know why they do this. They want to save gas and reduce idle emissions. I get it. But every mechanic knows the worst thing you can do to your engine is start it. Cold starts are worse than hot starts but any time the oil drains out of the journals once they quit floating, that's a lot of added wear on restart. Plus it's annoying when you need to get going in a hurry.

There is an option to disable it. There is a little button pad on the steering wheel that allows you to navigate and set things and options, like displays and crap like that. I like to look at the little electronic tach on the left side. Some people like to stare at tire pressures. Others like to watch a seriously annoying mileage strip jump to the right and left as the work the gas pedal. But one thing it does allow you to do, is uncheck the box that is labled "Auto Engine Stop."

Well it doesn't work. Whether the box is checked, or unchecked, the engine stops, as soon as you come to a complete stop. If you crawl, it doesn't stop. In either mode. If you lift the brake slightly the engine restarts. In either mode.

Am I missing something, or is there another step, or another place I need to go to disable that annoying shyte?

I don't have the manual. It's probably sitting in Oakland. I am not in Oakland right now. I am in the Central Valley. It's brand new. They bought it last week. I ain't have nobody I can aks about it right now. I will probably be driving around in it for a while.

 

[hindsight2020]

 

[Sac Arrow]

Okay... that was actually helpful. The console arrangement is different (that video is probably for a 2016 or earlier) and the shifter is a rotary knob, not a lever, but there is a mystery lever on the dash with a similar marking that appears to do exactly that.

Thanks.

 

[Velocity173]

Does seem a bit annoying for a non hybrid to do that. I used to own a Cmax that did that but with the electric motor, it was a pretty seamless transition.

 

[Arob16]

I had a hybrid that did the engine shut off thing as a rental, and it drove me nuts. I wonder if the starters fail early on those vehicles.


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[Catalo]

Okay, so I'm driving around in a 2017 Ford Fusion (long story, don't ask) and while it's really not that bad of a car, actually it is quite nice and comfy and it smells nice too and has lots of nice techno-geek gadgetry and lots of lights and displays and a little camera thingie in the back I don't use, but....

The engine shuts down every single time I come to a complete stop. Every single time. Those of you who know me, know that I drive in places where that's like every few feet, even on the freeways at rush hour. Now I know why they do this. They want to save gas and reduce idle emissions. I get it. But every mechanic knows the worst thing you can do to your engine is start it. Cold starts are worse than hot starts but any time the oil drains out of the journals once they quit floating, that's a lot of added wear on restart. Plus it's annoying when you need to get going in a hurry.

There is an option to disable it. There is a little button pad on the steering wheel that allows you to navigate and set things and options, like displays and crap like that. I like to look at the little electronic tach on the left side. Some people like to stare at tire pressures. Others like to watch a seriously annoying mileage strip jump to the right and left as the work the gas pedal. But one thing it does allow you to do, is uncheck the box that is labled "Auto Engine Stop."

Well it doesn't work. Whether the box is checked, or unchecked, the engine stops, as soon as you come to a complete stop. If you crawl, it doesn't stop. In either mode. If you lift the brake slightly the engine restarts. In either mode.

Am I missing something, or is there another step, or another place I need to go to disable that annoying shyte?

I don't have the manual. It's probably sitting in Oakland. I am not in Oakland right now. I am in the Central Valley. It's brand new. They bought it last week. I ain't have nobody I can aks about it right now. I will probably be driving around in it for a while.

Didn't watch the video but there is most likely a button that has an A with an arrow circling it. That should shut it off

 

[Sac Arrow]

Didn't watch the video but there is most likely a button that has an A with an arrow circling it. That should shut it off

Yes, that appears to be the gist of it.

I hate icons almost more than I hate smilies. But just almost. I stil hate smilies more.

 

[jheyen]

I had a hybrid that did the engine shut off thing as a rental, and it drove me nuts. I wonder if the starters fail early on those vehicles.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I have a Tahoe hybrid that does the same thing. I actually got used to it and it doesn't bother me. I do know that I don't have a starter though, the electric engine portion of the system is used as the starter so at least I don't have to worry about that wearing out.

 

[N747JB]

Didn't watch the video but there is most likely a button that has an A with an arrow circling it. That should shut it off

That's the one!

 

[Doggtyred]

Okay, so I'm driving around in a 2017 Ford Fusion (long story, don't ask) and while it's really not that bad of a car, actually it is quite nice and comfy and it smells nice too and has lots of nice techno-geek gadgetry and lots of lights and displays and a little camera thingie in the back I don't use, but....

The engine shuts down every single time I come to a complete stop. Every single time. Those of you who know me, know that I drive in places where that's like every few feet, even on the freeways at rush hour. Now I know why they do this. They want to save gas and reduce idle emissions. I get it. But every mechanic knows the worst thing you can do to your engine is start it. Cold starts are worse than hot starts but any time the oil drains out of the journals once they quit floating, that's a lot of added wear on restart. Plus it's annoying when you need to get going in a hurry.

There is an option to disable it. There is a little button pad on the steering wheel that allows you to navigate and set things and options, like displays and crap like that. I like to look at the little electronic tach on the left side. Some people like to stare at tire pressures. Others like to watch a seriously annoying mileage strip jump to the right and left as the work the gas pedal. But one thing it does allow you to do, is uncheck the box that is labled "Auto Engine Stop."

Well it doesn't work. Whether the box is checked, or unchecked, the engine stops, as soon as you come to a complete stop. If you crawl, it doesn't stop. In either mode. If you lift the brake slightly the engine restarts. In either mode.

Am I missing something, or is there another step, or another place I need to go to disable that annoying shyte?

I don't have the manual. It's probably sitting in Oakland. I am not in Oakland right now. I am in the Central Valley. It's brand new. They bought it last week. I ain't have nobody I can aks about it right now. I will probably be driving around in it for a while.

Its all about meeting an efficiency mandate and minimizing idle time. You want to keep the engine on? Turn the AC/defroster on.. the compressor requires the engine running. Try it.. It worked on a rental we had a few months ago.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Its all about meeting an efficiency mandate and minimizing idle time. You want to keep the engine on? Turn the AC/defroster on.. the compressor requires the engine running. Try it.. It worked on a rental we had a few months ago.

I got it figured out. You have to push the lever every time you start the car but it works. I can see if you're waiting for a train or a five minute light, but to stop and immediately restart? That's stupidity.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

But every mechanic knows the worst thing you can do to your engine is start it. Cold starts are worse than hot starts but any time the oil drains out of the journals once they quit floating, that's a lot of added wear on restart

Every mechanic may know that. But, no one will be able to show you one bit of data that says that stop/start reduces the life of your engine by even one mile.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

but to stop and immediately restart? That's stupidity.

If memory serves me correctly, that's more than a few percent improvement in the label fuel economy (city) and very cost effective compared to other things that would have otherwise be done to meet CAFE standards.

 

[N747JB]

If memory serves me correctly, that's more than a few percent improvement in the label fuel economy (city) and very cost effective compared to other things that would have otherwise be done to meet CAFE standards.

And I think we are going to see a lot more of this in the future!

 

[JoseCuervo]

I got it figured out. You have to push the lever every time you start the car but it works. I can see if you're waiting for a train or a five minute light, but to stop and immediately restart? That's stupidity.

Are you smart enough to judge the engineers who designed and implemented the system?

Not running an engine when power output is not desired seems brilliant.

 

[cowman]

Cold starts are bad because the oil is all drained back into the pan. I seriously doubt all the oil has drained back in the < 1min typical stop and it probably isn't going to make a bit of difference engine longevity wise.... I'm sure Ford studied this. I'd be more worried about the life of the starter motors....

 

[Sac Arrow]

Are you smart enough to judge the engineers who designed and implemented the system?

Not running an engine when power output is not desired seems brilliant.

Yes, in fact I am. I've taken ME coursework in engine design. It's a matter of compromises. The average person doesn't keep a vehicle long enough for the additional wear and tear to be an issue. Of course they've studied this.

A similar thing happens with large diesel gensets used for emergency power. They come from a preheated cold start condition to full power in under 90 seconds on an emergency start. It's terrible on the engine but the unit will still last 20 years since the number of emergency starts, plus the total engine hours will still be very low compared to a vehicle engine. Run a truck or marine diesel that way and you're toasting it early.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Yes, in fact I am. I've taken ME coursework in engine design. It's a matter of compromises. The average person doesn't keep a vehicle long enough for the additional wear and tear to be an issue. Of course they've studied this.

A similar thing happens with large diesel gensets used for emergency power. They come from a preheated cold start condition to full power in under 90 seconds on an emergency start. It's terrible on the engine but the unit will still last 20 years since the number of emergency starts, plus the total engine hours will still be very low compared to a vehicle engine. Run a truck or marine diesel that way and you're toasting it early.

I too have taken "mechanical engineering coursework" and I am smart enough to know that I would not be informed enough to pass judgement on the engineers at Ford and their implementation of this feature. And, unless you know this system, which, based on this thread, it is clear you do t understand this system at the least amount, there can be no basis for your judgement on Fords engineering.

Do you think shutting motors down when no power output is required is a good idea?

 

[cowman]

You want to talk about dumb MPG boosting features, I've got something to top engine stops at red lights.

My '12 Mustang with a 6-speed manual transmission came with a feature called skip shift. What this thing did was under certain rpm/engine load conditions, just after you started out from 1st gear a message would pop up in the display "1 -> 4 for best fuel economy" which isn't so bad but it also activated a solenoid in the transmission that would physically block you from shifting into 2nd and push you over into 4th instead. This was my first manual transmission car so for the longest time I thought I was just shifting poorly.... then one day I'm flipping through the owner's manual and I find out about skip shift. Sure enough next time I drive I see the message come up and it correlates with my "accidentally" going into 4th gear.

This is actually a safety problem, imagine you need to quickly accelerate your way out of danger or are making a turn in front of oncoming traffic without a great deal of room. Suddenly instead of your zippy sports car acceleration you expect, you go up 3 gears and the engine bogs down with no power... now you have to shift back down or live with the boggy acceleration. Not only that but the entire point of having a manual transmission on a modern car is that YOU get to choice what gear to shift into and when... the entire concept of skip shift negates that.

Fortunately the internet, as it often does, delivered. I found out that all you have to do to disable it is disconnect a single connector on the back of the transmission. Doesn't even trigger a check engine light.... so now I can shift my car perfectly but wow what a stupid idea.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I too have taken "mechanical engineering coursework" and I am smart enough to know that I would not be informed enough to pass judgement on the engineers at Ford and their implementation of this feature. And, unless you know this system, which, based on this thread, it is clear you do t understand this system at the least amount, there can be no basis for your judgement on Fords engineering.

Do you think shutting motors down when no power output is required is a good idea?

It depends on how long they are going to be shut down for. A couple minutes yes, a couple seconds no. If Ford thought it was such a great idea to have this feature operative in heavy stop and go, they wouldn't have given the option to disable it. What's the ideal time breakpoint? I have no idea but I'm quite certain thirty starts and stops in the course of two minutes is fairly hard on engine and starter.

But since I'm such an idiot in your eyes, I think it's fairly pointless in asking my opinion.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I can shift my car perfectly but wow what a stupid idea.

Without that stupid idea, the car wouldn't have made the fuel economy targets and that manual transmission wouldn't have been available.

You can get the same thing on many model years of Corvette as well.

 

[Sac Arrow]

You want to talk about dumb MPG boosting features, I've got something to top engine stops at red lights.

My '12 Mustang with a 6-speed manual transmission came with a feature called skip shift. What this thing did was under certain rpm/engine load conditions, just after you started out from 1st gear a message would pop up in the display "1 -> 4 for best fuel economy" which isn't so bad but it also activated a solenoid in the transmission that would physically block you from shifting into 2nd and push you over into 4th instead. This was my first manual transmission car so for the longest time I thought I was just shifting poorly.... then one day I'm flipping through the owner's manual and I find out about skip shift. Sure enough next time I drive I see the message come up and it correlates with my "accidentally" going into 4th gear.

This is actually a safety problem, imagine you need to quickly accelerate your way out of danger or are making a turn in front of oncoming traffic without a great deal of room. Suddenly instead of your zippy sports car acceleration you expect, you go up 3 gears and the engine bogs down with no power... now you have to shift back down or live with the boggy acceleration. Not only that but the entire point of having a manual transmission on a modern car is that YOU get to choice what gear to shift into and when... the entire concept of skip shift negates that.

Fortunately the internet, as it often does, delivered. I found out that all you have to do to disable it is disconnect a single connector on the back of the transmission. Doesn't even trigger a check engine light.... so now I can shift my car perfectly but wow what a stupid idea.

Wow, that does sound potentially hazardous.

 

[SoonerAviator]

You want to talk about dumb MPG boosting features, I've got something to top engine stops at red lights.

My '12 Mustang with a 6-speed manual transmission came with a feature called skip shift. What this thing did was under certain rpm/engine load conditions, just after you started out from 1st gear a message would pop up in the display "1 -> 4 for best fuel economy" which isn't so bad but it also activated a solenoid in the transmission that would physically block you from shifting into 2nd and push you over into 4th instead. This was my first manual transmission car so for the longest time I thought I was just shifting poorly.... then one day I'm flipping through the owner's manual and I find out about skip shift. Sure enough next time I drive I see the message come up and it correlates with my "accidentally" going into 4th gear.

This is actually a safety problem, imagine you need to quickly accelerate your way out of danger or are making a turn in front of oncoming traffic without a great deal of room. Suddenly instead of your zippy sports car acceleration you expect, you go up 3 gears and the engine bogs down with no power... now you have to shift back down or live with the boggy acceleration. Not only that but the entire point of having a manual transmission on a modern car is that YOU get to choice what gear to shift into and when... the entire concept of skip shift negates that.

Fortunately the internet, as it often does, delivered. I found out that all you have to do to disable it is disconnect a single connector on the back of the transmission. Doesn't even trigger a check engine light.... so now I can shift my car perfectly but wow what a stupid idea.

The first car I drove with the "skip shift" was the C5 '97-04 Corvettes, so it's definitely not a new idea from Ford. However, as you mentioned, it's easily defeated. As for your dangerous scenario, I'm not sure I understand. If you needed to emergency-accelerate, why wouldn't you stay in 1st gear and accelerate instead of shifting to 4th? The system should be dependent on engine rpm and throttle position, so if you stay in 1st and punch it, you can shift to 2nd like normal.


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[cowman]

If you were planning ahead and anticipating, yes but skip shift isn't terribly predictable.... and in this car you really only kiss 1st gear for a moment before immediate upshift to 2nd. You run out of RPMs really quick in 1st, really you can bypass it and start in 2nd pretty easily but I always figured that's hard on the clutch.

Where this used to bite me all the time before I disabled it was on the drive home to my old house. We had a left turn lane with no stop on level ground where one often had to stop for oncoming traffic... it could get pretty busy around the time I'd be coming home for work so I had to find a hole and dart through it sometimes. Immediately after making the turn the road went up a steep hill. I would frequently start out in 1st, and before I'd even cleared the road I was on be ready for 2nd.... which I'd go for and get dumped into 4th and bog down on the hill and nearly get run over by the car behind me. One day I wouldn't get skip shifted another I wouldn't... the conditions must have been right on the borderline of where the computer decided to do it.

Again, yeah you can anticipate it but in quick situations in traffic like that when you're expecting the car to do one thing and it does another(and so are the other drivers around you) it's not a good situation. I imagine most owners who have the mechanical inclination to know it can be disabled probably do. The procedure was so simple you almost wonder if they designed it to be easy to bypass.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

If you were planning ahead and anticipating, yes but skip shift isn't terribly predictable.... and in this car you really only kiss 1st gear for a moment before immediate upshift to 2nd. You run out of RPMs really quick in 1st, really you can bypass it and start in 2nd pretty easily but I always figured that's hard on the clutch.

Where this used to bite me all the time before I disabled it was on the drive home to my old house. We had a left turn lane with no stop on level ground where one often had to stop for oncoming traffic... it could get pretty busy around the time I'd be coming home for work so I had to find a hole and dart through it sometimes. Immediately after making the turn the road went up a steep hill. I would frequently start out in 1st, and before I'd even cleared the road I was on be ready for 2nd.... which I'd go for and get dumped into 4th and bog down on the hill and nearly get run over by the car behind me. One day I wouldn't get skip shifted another I wouldn't... the conditions must have been right on the borderline of where the computer decided to do it.

Again, yeah you can anticipate it but in quick situations in traffic like that when you're expecting the car to do one thing and it does another(and so are the other drivers around you) it's not a good situation. I imagine most owners who have the mechanical inclination to know it can be disabled probably do. The procedure was so simple you almost wonder if they designed it to be easy to bypass.

Yep, I had an '05 C6 6-speed Vette with what GM euphemistically calls CAGS (computer aided gear selection), and it catches you out in exactly the scenario you describe. For me, the gotcha was lumbering along in a controlled left-turn lane behind other cars, where the situation just begs for a short shift.The irony is that for what's a fuel-economy Band-Aid for CAFE purposes, defeating it with more throttle before the 1-2 shift hurts rather than helps fuel economy, so there you are. When I took it in for a flash tune, I had the technician defeat the skip-shift with a couple of keystrokes, but pulling the solenoid works too.

 

[SoonerAviator]

. . . Where this used to bite me all the time before I disabled it was on the drive home to my old house. We had a left turn lane with no stop on level ground where one often had to stop for oncoming traffic... it could get pretty busy around the time I'd be coming home for work so I had to find a hole and dart through it sometimes. Immediately after making the turn the road went up a steep hill. I would frequently start out in 1st, and before I'd even cleared the road I was on be ready for 2nd.... which I'd go for and get dumped into 4th and bog down on the hill and nearly get run over by the car behind me. One day I wouldn't get skip shifted another I wouldn't... the conditions must have been right on the borderline of where the computer decided to do it . . .

Ah, I see. I haven't owned any of the vehicles I've driven with the skip shift, so I haven't had it in many situations where it was much of a hindrance. I have heard that on the latest C7 Vettes, it's much more difficult to de-activate the CAGS system, but the aftermarket always seems to come through. Worse case, they force you to pull the mechanical solenoid on the shift gate and remove the "mechanical" portion of it, lol.

 

[Timbeck2]

Yep, hit the A with the circle around it button and the OK button on the steering wheel.

<----- Just learned that myself last week.

 

[hockeyrcks9901]

I don't mind the Auto Start-Stop but that Skip Shift would drive me NUTS!

One of the reasons I chose my car (Ford Focus ST) was that it was only sold in a manual transmission. Luckily Ford didn't put that system in this car.

 

[James331]

One of the first things I did on my C6 was to take that CAGs thing out, forget if it was a fuse or something, but it took me all of a minute, man that was annoying.

 

[PaulS]

Are you smart enough to judge the engineers who designed and implemented the system?

Not running an engine when power output is not desired seems brilliant.

Um, yeah, engineers screw up all the time, if you don't think so google 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee shifter.

 

[PaulS]

Okay, so I'm driving around in a 2017 Ford Fusion (long story, don't ask) and while it's really not that bad of a car, actually it is quite nice and comfy and it smells nice too and has lots of nice techno-geek gadgetry and lots of lights and displays and a little camera thingie in the back I don't use, but....

The engine shuts down every single time I come to a complete stop. Every single time. Those of you who know me, know that I drive in places where that's like every few feet, even on the freeways at rush hour. Now I know why they do this. They want to save gas and reduce idle emissions. I get it. But every mechanic knows the worst thing you can do to your engine is start it. Cold starts are worse than hot starts but any time the oil drains out of the journals once they quit floating, that's a lot of added wear on restart. Plus it's annoying when you need to get going in a hurry.

There is an option to disable it. There is a little button pad on the steering wheel that allows you to navigate and set things and options, like displays and crap like that. I like to look at the little electronic tach on the left side. Some people like to stare at tire pressures. Others like to watch a seriously annoying mileage strip jump to the right and left as the work the gas pedal. But one thing it does allow you to do, is uncheck the box that is labled "Auto Engine Stop."

Well it doesn't work. Whether the box is checked, or unchecked, the engine stops, as soon as you come to a complete stop. If you crawl, it doesn't stop. In either mode. If you lift the brake slightly the engine restarts. In either mode.

Am I missing something, or is there another step, or another place I need to go to disable that annoying shyte?

I don't have the manual. It's probably sitting in Oakland. I am not in Oakland right now. I am in the Central Valley. It's brand new. They bought it last week. I ain't have nobody I can aks about it right now. I will probably be driving around in it for a while.

Why oh why do you hate the environment so?

 

[Sac Arrow]

Why oh why do you hate the environment so?

Think about all of the baby seals that would have otherwise had to be clubbed to death when they could have just painlessly succumbed to suffocation by inhalation of noxious chemicals?

 

[PaulS]

Think about all of the baby seals that would have otherwise had to be clubbed to death when they could have just painlessly succumbed to suffocation by inhalation of noxious chemicals?

Lol, the hoity toi around here are chased off their yacht docks by ****ed off seals, those seals are ingrates.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Um, yeah, engineers screw up all the time, if you don't think so google 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee shifter.

But they don't screw up as often as the "barstool geniuses" drinking Keystone Light and telling stories about their uncle's buddy's nephew's teacher's barber's mom who has a faulty Jeep Grand Cherokee....

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

One of the first things I did on my C6 was to take that CAGs thing out, forget if it was a fuse or something, but it took me all of a minute, man that was annoying.

When and why did they make it impossible to disable all the seat belt, door chimes & warnings in vehicles? Used to be, the first thing was to pull those annoyances out from every new to me car.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Wow, that does sound potentially hazardous.

So maybe you weren't doin it right?

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Um, yeah, engineers screw up all the time, if you don't think so google 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee shifter.

Or Anton Yelchin. So sad.

Sucks when automakers try to reinvent perfectly good controls that were intuitive to operate. BMW detent-less turn signal stalks also come to mind.

 

[Zeldman]

This is nothing new. I had a '47 Chevy 5 window PU that would always auto shut off at a stop light. Sometimes it would even auto shut off while driving down the road..!!

 

[Bill]

This is nothing new. I had a '47 Chevy 5 window PU that would always auto shut off at a stop light. Sometimes it would even auto shut off while driving down the road..!!

Or the old cars that would continue to run on for a while after shutting the thing off. My Dad had one car so bad that sometimes you'd have to put it in gear to stop the darned thing.

 

[PaulS]

But they don't screw up as often as the "barstool geniuses" drinking Keystone Light and telling stories about their uncle's buddy's nephew's teacher's barber's mom who has a faulty Jeep Grand Cherokee....

Pfft, I have one, what's your point?