Question for airplane owners

I got a 182rg for a few reasons. I wanted something that had a good useful load with 3 adults in it. 95% of our flying is 3 or less persons. We've only filled the seats once. It also needed to have suitable avionics to do both my instrument and his. We wanted to do cross countries, especially kchd to krap whoch is pretty far. We weren't necessarily looking for a complex and high performance aircraft. A Dakota or a 182 were what we were aiming for. But now I have 125hrs in it and I've started my commercial training. It's awesome not to have to go back to renting for that. I don't know that I would be perusing the commercial if I didn't have this plane.
 
Dav8or said:
Lots of cross country is doable VFR, if you're retired, or have a very flexible schedule and don't mind unexpected stays and overnights during your travels. An IR helps a lot in keeping you on schedule, but IMO, if you're a person with a rigid schedule where you must be at your job Monday through Friday, think twice about lots of long x country even with a IR.
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Huh? I did 30 odd 840NM round trips in a warrior II last year. 100% return rate. Filed IFR less than 20% of the time. Shot only 2 approaches by necessity. Most of the flexing I did on Sunday had to do with winds and convective systems. I arrived at my home airport at 1-2am Monday a couple times. Big whoop. I was still at work on Monday. I think the dispatchability rate argument is overblown. This is in the lowlands in non-icing environment, granted. Maybe in the mountains you can't say that. I dunno, not a limitation where I fly.
 
I fly for a living, and despite having flown well over a hundred types of airplanes, I've never owned one. I know lots of people with airplanes, some of whom have great fun and others well, less. I suspect that has partly to do with the mission creep that inevitably develops when the machine is actually sitting in the hangar...and the wife doesn't really want to go...all your buddies are at work, and what you thought you were going to do with the airplane happens all to infrequently, and every time you open the hanger doors, it's another hundred plus bucks. Still want one though. The Falco is the one that really makes my teeth sweat. That airplane is like Scarlet Johanssen on a bicycle - she looks good from every angle! An airplane to love. But darn if it doesn't command Bonanza $$. True, it has a nose wheel, but it retracts to avoid embarrassment. 160kts on 8gal/hr + aerobatic + flies like a dream and there isn't one on every corner, like some airplanes I could mention.
 
Bill Watson said:
A dispiriting thought, most airplanes parked at most airports rarely fly.

The people here include some of the few owners that actually fly regularly.

The implication is that owners with the wrong plane, no mission or who otherwise regret their airplane decision, aren't represented here.

Just saying
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No kidding. One of the ramps at my hom field has 5 to 6 planes that fly regularly, a bunch that fly on the 3rd thursday of every month when it's partly cloudy after 4 PM and a few more (including a what was probably once beautiful Cessna 180) that have been stuck in probate for the past decade.
 
Bought something specifically for Alaska and with the thought that I really didn't need a true four seater and 2+2 would be fine. As it turns out I never put it on skis and there have been many times that I wished I had 1000 lbs useful instead of 750lbs. I was (very) single when I bought it and now we are a family (of soon to be four.) Now that I'm in the lower 48 I'll switch to something else but I don't have time to think about it at the moment.

One nice thing is, for the same amount of $ I was putting into insurance for a 170 in Alaska, I can insure quite a bit of airplane down here :rolleyes:
 
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supernovae said:
Is it really feasible to be a travelling pilot and stay VFR or is IFR a necessity if you plan on doing lots of xcountry?
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Obviously you can do it VFR... there are a good number of people on this board that do it year in and out.

However, if travel is what you want to do, an IR will make it more better. Having earned it will make you a better traveler, even if you don't stay current and decide to remain VFR only. See recent thread on ATC comm with class B/C airports for an example.

If you do end up traveling a lot and do keep current, it's by far the best way to travel. Practically 100% of my flights are on IFR plans. Partly as a way of staying proficient in the system, partly because it is simplerer. This is especially the case in the GPS era. Most flights require me to decide what altitude I want to fly at and a request for direct to destination. Avoiding prohibited airspace, clearance thru and to Class B/C, and separation services are all taken care of. Allows me to focus on weather and VFR traffic.

The ATC system is a fantastic resource and the IR gives you full access to it.
 
My mission when I got my first plane was a lot like yours I bought a Decathlon to learn in, and to go punch holes with the occasional trip to somewhere. I got a great education in both airmanship(you don't need), and plane ownership. It was great for boring holes, and going solo to just get my head straight for a while. Not so great on trips but got the job done.

If you can afford the Falco it would suit you fine. For less money, and less performance Beech offered the aerobatic Sundowner with stodgy four seats, and a nose wheel. Or, you could go whole hog and find one of the aerobatic Bonanzas out there. Take lots of money.
 
I spent a few years in relatively complex aircraft in often challenging conditions so when I retired I wanted something simple and fun to fly. I got a old 172, redid the interior and hung a new 180hp on it and updated the panel. (I also spent a lot of time in helicopters so going slow wasn't an issue for me) After a while I recognized a need for better cross country capability so I added a 310. As of now I'm set to cover both fun and travel.
 
j1b3h0 said:
I fly for a living, and despite having flown well over a hundred types of airplanes, I've never owned one. I know lots of people with airplanes, some of whom have great fun and others well, less. I suspect that has partly to do with the mission creep that inevitably develops when the machine is actually sitting in the hangar...and the wife doesn't really want to go...all your buddies are at work, and what you thought you were going to do with the airplane happens all to infrequently, and every time you open the hanger doors, it's another hundred plus bucks. Still want one though. The Falco is the one that really makes my teeth sweat. That airplane is like Scarlet Johanssen on a bicycle - she looks good from every angle! An airplane to love. But darn if it doesn't command Bonanza $$. True, it has a nose wheel, but it retracts to avoid embarrassment. 160kts on 8gal/hr + aerobatic + flies like a dream and there isn't one on every corner, like some airplanes I could mention.
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I think much of the mission creep has to do with unrealistic mission expectations.

If the expectation is for the family to fly as well, then they need to be on board with the idea. If the expectation is to fly with friends, that's probably an unrealistic expectation. Usually it's easiest to find pilot friends to fly with, but even then that can be difficult. Best to just fly because you want to.
 
I had no false notions about mine. :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
Huh? I did 30 odd 840NM round trips in a warrior II last year. 100% return rate. Filed IFR less than 20% of the time. Shot only 2 approaches by necessity. Most of the flexing I did on Sunday had to do with winds and convective systems. I arrived at my home airport at 1-2am Monday a couple times. Big whoop. I was still at work on Monday. I think the dispatchability rate argument is overblown. This is in the lowlands in non-icing environment, granted. Maybe in the mountains you can't say that. I dunno, not a limitation where I fly.
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Here's the way I'd do the math around your IFR/VFR figures.

80% of the time you can get there VFR.
80% of the time you can get back VFR.

If you were only VFR, you'd be able to successfully complete the round trip 80% x 80% = 64% of the time. That means you'd cancel over 1/3 of the trips because of actual IFR issues.

I suspect you'd really cancel more than that because of potential IFR. Since you have the IFR ticket, you get to launch VFR into situations that might turn IFR. When they don't, you can complete the flight VFR. The VFR guy often cancels the trip because he doesn't want to get stuck in Podunk due to low ceilings or whatever.
 
All of these responses make me wonder why LSA hasn't taken off.. seems like unless you're flying professionally, the bulk of what you thought you would do is nada and most of what you do could be done cheaper if you didn't make the assumption you would do what you dreamed you wanted to do to begin with. lol
 
supernovae said:
All of these responses make me wonder why LSA hasn't taken off.. seems like unless you're flying professionally, the bulk of what you thought you would do is nada and most of what you do could be done cheaper if you didn't make the assumption you would do what you dreamed you wanted to do to begin with. lol
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This has been addressed before. LSAs have to have used C-152 prices (as they were thought of in the first place to support the pilot entry projections) in order to attract the majority to have the incentive to invest in a toy with such a low prescribed mission set (pattern jumping and sub 100nm VFR hops). Not for 100K though.

Furthermore, the option to go on those XC trips is still worth the money for others, making the purchase of a 2 seater a non-starter. I was there, I bought a C-150, I overgrew the mission the second I took possession of it. I simply should have waited until I could have afforded the Warrior.
 
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supernovae said:
All of these responses make me wonder why LSA hasn't taken off.. seems like unless you're flying professionally, the bulk of what you thought you would do is nada and most of what you do could be done cheaper if you didn't make the assumption you would do what you dreamed you wanted to do to begin with. lol
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Too much to buy, too slow to fly.
 
hindsight2020 said:
This has been addressed before. LSAs have to have used C-152 prices (as they were thought of in the first place to support the pilot entry projections) in order to attract the majority to have the incentive to invest in a toy with such a low prescribed mission set (pattern jumping and sub 100nm VFR hops). Not for 100K though.

Furthermore, the option to go on those XC trips is still worth the money for others, making the purchase of a 2 seater a non-starter. I was there, I bought a C-150, I overgrew the mission the second I took possession of it. I simply should have waited until I could have afforded the Warrior.
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How often do you fly the warrior with 4 seats filled?

An LSA split with a 2-4 way partner/club would be so affordable it would make many a pilot sick to their stomach.

Then you could rent for those other missions.

Also, CTLS / Pipistrel cruise speed is as fast/faster than a warrior

Not in any shape/form/fashion trying to wedge anyone into anything, but just after reading this and seeing what people say, I can almost guarantee we fly by ourselves and do less "Dream missions" than we mostly want to admit.

Used LSA's are really coming down. I saw a sweet CTLS with auto pilot for 70k.. a 9 year old Pipistrel Virus for 45k
 
Dav8or said:
Too much to buy, too slow to fly.
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I'm not deep on LSA issues but "Too much to buy, too slow to fly" seems dead on center.

Experimental switch on (excuse me because this has probably been beat into the ground before I got here)

The 2 place RV series demonstrates that 2 fast seats at close to 100k can be a winner. Great 1 person cross country, fun hamburger missions, sport acro; a total Walter Mitty machine.

The RV10 is what made me go down that road because I needed a great, fast 2 person cross country machine... oh, and it will do 4 people almost as well.

What will be interesting is seeing how Van's RV12 (the LSA entrant) does compared to the RV14 (the latest fast 2 place entry that allows 2 people to pack without much thought). My guess is that the RV14 hits a 2 place sweet spot that the previous side by side RVs flirted convincingly with. And that the RV12 will simply add another entrant to the LSAey slot with all the LSA pluses and minuses.

Experimental switch off
 
kyleb said:
Here's the way I'd do the math around your IFR/VFR figures.

80% of the time you can get there VFR.
80% of the time you can get back VFR.

If you were only VFR, you'd be able to successfully complete the round trip 80% x 80% = 64% of the time. That means you'd cancel over 1/3 of the trips because of actual IFR issues.

I suspect you'd really cancel more than that because of potential IFR. Since you have the IFR ticket, you get to launch VFR into situations that might turn IFR. When they don't, you can complete the flight VFR. The VFR guy often cancels the trip because he doesn't want to get stuck in Podunk due to low ceilings or whatever.
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I always take my visa and if the wx looks bad coming back and I cannot extend the vacation or weekend I rent a car and drive home....come back next month or in a few weeks. I have had to do this three times in 9 years and flying distances of up to 1700nm.
 
I started this thread a few years ago. Now I own a V35A, a Stearman and a Luscombe 8A - all with partners. Still like to roll around what kind of airplane to add next, or replace what we have. Kinda got a hormonal imbalance for a nice E55 Baron,...oh, wait! There’s a nice Pitts S-1S!
 
j1b3h0 said:
I started this thread a few years ago. Now I own a V35A, a Stearman and a Luscombe 8A - all with partners. Still like to roll around what kind of airplane to add next, or replace what we have. Kinda got a hormonal imbalance for a nice E55 Baron,...oh, wait! There’s a nice Pitts S-1S!
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Do you still lust for a Falco? I know I do.

F8L%20Falco%20NigelMoll01Large_zps4ysd7ist.jpg
 
A friend of mine bought a mooney. I looked at it’s capabilities and started working on my pilots license within a month. A year later I bought that same mooney from him. Until then, I had no idea you could own a 700 mile, 1000 pound load, 140 knot, 4 seat, IFR capable (albeit steam not /g) airplane for less than $30k.
 
One just went for 30K on eBay!

https://tinyurl.com/y7r2vlkk

I only found out about it after it was gone or would have posted earlier. The cowling looks a little odd on this one. And that boat anchor prop needs to go on a Turbo Arrow or something equally ordinary. Still . . . what an amazing stroke of luck for the buyer.
 
I was tempted by that fire sale Falco when advertised on Barnstormers at $45K/offer but have other uses for the cash. I also like my current plane quite a bit and no longer want to deal with multiple planes simultaneously. Been there, done that but if I’d known it might sell for $30K I’m not sure I could have resisted! Thanks for posting that info.

Did it actually sell, or just not reach reserve?

Other than the high cost new, the biggest problem with LSAs is their maintenance requirements. I can’t see the category ever becoming terribly popular, except maybe for the Cub replicas. All parts must be supplied or specified by the original airframe manufacturer, commercial metric nuts and bolts included. Happily there’s is a way out (conversion to Experimental, E-LSA) but this may reduce the value by prohibiting rental and commercial operations. That said, used Euro-Rotax LSAs do seem to be depreciating fast to reasonable prices, $60K or so. That makes them a better buy and a reasonable plane for an individual owner to convert to E-LSA and enjoy.
 
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