Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee types?

[Owad1971]

Anyone have any insight? Is it mandatory where the PIC sits when carrying passengers? Howabout flying solo? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MAKG1]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

I believe the PIC must have controls accessible, but aside from that, there is no restriction. So, you can't go in the back seat, but the right seat in a dual control aircraft is fine.

Having said that, it would be nice to have the airspeed indicator (or PFD) where you can see it, and starting the engine with a left seat passenger is going to involve some close contact that may or may not be appropriate.

SOME aircraft have no brakes on the right seat (but not any of the ones you listed). A lot more aircraft have more adjustments on the left seat than the right.

 

[Hobobiker]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

From what I've read about here and other places the FARs don't regulate where the PIC sits. That said, the PIC should feel comfortable flying right seat and also ensure that there are no limitations imposed by the insurance company, company the plane is rented from if that applies, etc.

 

[Challenged]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

http://www.askacfi.com/7923/legal-requirement-for-sitting-left-seat.htm

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

As far as the FAA is concerned, that's legal as long as the right seat is a "control station" with flight and power controls (central controls accessible from either seat will do) and access to brakes if installed (although a central brake handle will suffice). Your insurance or flight school/FBO policy may still prohibit it, but that's not the FAA's concern. And there's the issue mentioned above regarding the differences in flying from a seat you're not used to, but again, that's not regulatory.

The one exception may be solo flight. For example, the Piper J-3 Cub has a limitation for solo from the rear seat only, so if you're alone in one, that's the seat you must occupy.

 

[frfly172]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Pic must have controls available. Have done a lot of right side flying in my 172 when I owned it.

 

[Owad1971]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Good Info, Thanks! Going to consult the rental agreement on this later this weekend.

 

[Captain]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Our GOM specifically stated who sat where and made allowances for CheckAirman.

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Good Info, Thanks! Going to consult the rental agreement on this later this weekend.

Rental agreement? Based on my experience, it's most likely the FBO/flight school will say "no" other than for CP's enrolled in a CFI course after a "right seat checkout", but it can't hurt to ask as long as you can accept "no" for an answer, so be prepared for that outcome.

 

[flyingron]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

As far as the FAA is concerned, that's legal as long as the right seat is a "control station" with flight and power controls (central controls accessible from either seat will do) and access to brakes if installed

The FAA has held that BRAKES are not flight controls and do not have to be in both pilot positions. If this were not the case, there'd be no way to do flight instruction in planes with only left side brakes.

 

[Henning]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

I used to fly Cherokees from the right quite frequently because the door was on the right.

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

The FAA has held that BRAKES are not flight controls and do not have to be in both pilot positions. If this were not the case, there'd be no way to do flight instruction in planes with only left side brakes.

You need to re-read the letters on point. In all cases, the airplanes involved had a center brake handle allowing the airplane to be stopped from the right seat. The issue was only lack of toe brakes on the right side, not inability to brake the plane at all, when the Chief Counsel said that lack of toe brakes was not disqualifying.

 

[Johann]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

starting the engine with a left seat passenger is going to involve some close contact that may or may not be appropriate.

So true. There were a couple of times (the first few flights) where my instructor in the 172 would prime and start the engine. And he's a big dude, I didn't have one of those hot female instructors we see threads about every now and then.

 

[weilke]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

The poh for some types specifies that 'a pilot' has to occupy the left seat. That is typically because some control cannot be reached without contortions from the right seat.

This is in the 'limitations' section for the TB-20 AFM, I am sure other part 23 aircraft have similar language:

CREW LIMITATIONS​

Minimum crew:

1 Pilot
(1 pilot required at L.H. station)

This is in the limitations section for the Columbia 400 AFM:

A pilot with the seat belt fastened must occupy the left pilot’s seat during all autopilot​

operations
​

 

[Brad Z]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

You need to re-read the letters on point. In all cases, the airplanes involved had a center brake handle allowing the airplane to be stopped from the right seat. The issue was only lack of toe brakes on the right side, not inability to brake the plane at all, when the Chief Counsel said that lack of toe brakes was not disqualifying.

Interesting. The twin (Piper Apache) I flew for my MEI training this summer has no brakes on the right side, nor does it have a center hand brake. It just has a parking brake tab that holds the brakes in place after they've been applied.

I questioned the wisdom of training ME candidates in a plane with no brakes available to the instructor, but he indicated that in the 7,000 hours of instruction he's given, he's had no problems. I honestly never considered the legality of it, since I was not the one offering the instruction.

 

[MikeELP]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

So true. There were a couple of times (the first few flights) where my instructor in the 172 would prime and start the engine..

Strange. I teach my students (that is...I explain and talk them through it while they do it) the priming and engine start procedures on their very first flight.

Mike

 

[flyingron]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Well, I don't know what "examples" you think you're talking about Ron, because the official determination on it doesn't mention ANY examples.

It can't be any clearer in the statement:

3. ACTION. Aviation safety inspectors in all Flight Standards
District Offices (FSDO) are requested to advise certificated flight
instructors, certificated pilot schools, and affected aircraft
owners and operators within their jurisdiction, that FAA’s previous
and long standing policy regarding this matter continues to apply
and that civil aircraft with a single set of brakes, with or
without a central handbrake, may continue to be used for flight
instruction or practical tests IAW all applicable provisions of
14 CFR.​

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Interesting. The twin (Piper Apache) I flew for my MEI training this summer has no brakes on the right side, nor does it have a center hand brake. It just has a parking brake tab that holds the brakes in place after they've been applied.

I've only got about 900 hours in PA23's, but they all had a center brake handle with a locking tab for parking, but it could still be used to slow and stop the plane if you didn't push on the tab to lock it in the braking position.

 

[rbridges]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

are there any rules about distance from certain gauges? I may be confusing it with an IFR GPS being used as a primary instrument.

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Well, I don't know what "examples" you think you're talking about Ron, because the official determination on it doesn't mention ANY examples.

It can't be any clearer in the statement:

3. ACTION. Aviation safety inspectors in all Flight Standards
District Offices (FSDO) are requested to advise certificated flight
instructors, certificated pilot schools, and affected aircraft
owners and operators within their jurisdiction, that FAA’s previous
and long standing policy regarding this matter continues to apply
and that civil aircraft with a single set of brakes, with or
without a central handbrake, may continue to be used for flight
instruction or practical tests IAW all applicable provisions of
14 CFR.​

Note also that this applies only to "flight instruction or practical tests", i.e., with somebody in the seat with the toe brakes.

 

[poadeleted20]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

are there any rules about distance from certain gauges?

None of which I am aware.

I may be confusing it with an IFR GPS being used as a primary instrument.

Do you mean the clause in the Garmin 430/530 installation manual which allows omission of the separate annunciator if the main unit is within a certain distance of the center of the yoke or pilot's seat? If so, I think that may be the source of your confusion.

 

[rbridges]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

None of which I am aware.
Do you mean the clause in the Garmin 430/530 installation manual which allows omission of the separate annunciator if the main unit is within a certain distance of the center of the yoke or pilot's seat? If so, I think that may be the source of your confusion.

I was talking to my avionics guy about possibly moving things around, and he mentioned something about distance. that's probably it.

 

[Jim_R]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Our GOM specifically stated who sat where and made allowances for CheckAirman.

Hah! We have an honorary club at work for the "Grumpy Old Men" of the office. I could see one of our GOMs laying down the law about who sat where in the airplane!

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

The pic may sit anywhere in the front....but.....he may not sit in either backseat saying things like, " it's over! We are going to die!" Or " what are we to do"?! ( Taylorcrafts were used for years , to train thousands with no brakes on the right. )

 

[Brad Z]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

I've only got about 900 hours in PA23's, but they all had a center brake handle with a locking tab for parking, but it could still be used to slow and stop the plane if you didn't push on the tab to lock it in the braking position.

I only have 10 hours in a PA-23, but the particular model I flew did not have a center brake handle...only a parking brake valve just above the left knee of the left seater.

I don't have a photo of the cockpit but I attached the page from the handbook describing the braking system.

 

[denverpilot]

Anyone have any insight? Is it mandatory where the PIC sits when carrying passengers? Howabout flying solo? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I sit in the right seat of my airplane and make airplane noises.

Oh. The assembled crowd assumes you meant to ask if you could FLY it from over there. But that's not what you asked.

 

[marcoseddi]

Good question I thought u needed to be signed off for Right seat flying

 

[EdFred]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

The FAA has held that BRAKES are not flight controls and do not have to be in both pilot positions. If this were not the case, there'd be no way to do flight instruction in planes with only left side brakes.

Note also that this applies only to "flight instruction or practical tests", i.e., with somebody in the seat with the toe brakes.

Maybe you should try reading instead of being, well, you.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

In our Skyhawk, I "always" sit on the left, Hubby "always" sits on the right. We decide before flight who is PIC.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Our GOM specifically stated who sat where and made allowances for CheckAirman.

You have a GOM for a 150, 172 or PA28?

 

[Owad1971]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

You have a GOM for a 150, 172 or PA28?

Desculpe, O que e "GOM"- ?

 

[drotto]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

I have even heard of a plane where the instrament layout was changed to the right side because the main pilot had strength issues with his left arm, and needed to fly from the right seat.

 

[Palmpilot]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Good question I thought u needed to be signed off for Right seat flying

My flying club has that requirement.

 

[weilke]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

My flying club has that requirement.

Good idea. I know of one plane that was geared up twice by the same CFI candidate .

 

[Palmpilot]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Does flying from the right seat make a gear-up landing more likely?

 

[flyingron]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Does flying from the right seat make a gear-up landing more likely?

Don't know, but it's pretty hard to RAISE The gear in the Navion from the right seat. The way the handle is interlocked to raise it pretty much is set up for a right hand. When I let my flight instructor do some landings for currency (I offered to swap seats with him, but he's happy to do them from the right), I almost always take care of raising the gear (on his command). Putting it down isn't an issue (no interlock on lowering it).

 

[weilke]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Does flying from the right seat make a gear-up landing more likely?

It shouldn't, if you have some time to get used to the different geometry.

Some planes like the Bonanza are really not set up to be flown from the right seat. With a single-yoke and the fold-flat rudder pedals, you can put a pax in the right seat without having to worry about them interfering with your controls. The downside is that flying from the right seat is somewhat awkward. The Bos purchased for primary training (e.g. for Sabena, Lufthansa, JAL) were set up with dual controls and passenger brakes.

 

[rbridges]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

Don't know, but it's pretty hard to RAISE The gear in the Navion from the right seat. The way the handle is interlocked to raise it pretty much is set up for a right hand. When I let my flight instructor do some landings for currency (I offered to swap seats with him, but he's happy to do them from the right), I almost always take care of raising the gear (on his command). Putting it down isn't an issue (no interlock on lowering it).

I could do it if I had to, but using the Johnson bar left handed would be hard.

 

[weilke]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

I could do it if I had to, but using the Johnson bar left handed would be hard.

Do you have the 'positive control' thingmajig ? The little mooneys are another plane that is not really set up to be flown from the right seat.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Re: Question: Can PIC sit in the right seat on cessna 150, 172 and piper cherokee ty

I've only got about 900 hours in PA23's, but they all had a center brake handle with a locking tab for parking, but it could still be used to slow and stop the plane if you didn't push on the tab to lock it in the braking position.

I owned a PA23 (Apache), have flown 180's, 235's and 250's ( A, B, C, D, F's) and I don't recall ever seeing one with that brake arrangement.