Question about pilots who fly IFR on VFR days

[N918KT]

Here is a question I thought about for awhile but never gotten any clarification on it.

For the pilots who fly under IFR on VFR days, do you actually fly under IFR on instruments just like you would be flying in IFR weather or could you look out the window for the most part like on a VFR flight plan?

What about airline pilots who always fly IFR? Do they have to be looking down on their instruments all the time or could they look out the window too like VFR pilots?

I always wondered if IFR meant IFR, always looking down on instruments for reference, even if there is clear weather outside.

 

[Kritchlow]

Here is a question I thought about for awhile but never gotten any clarification on it.

For the pilots who fly under IFR on VFR days, do you actually fly under IFR on instruments just like you would be flying in IFR weather or could you look out the window for the most part like on a VFR flight plan?

What about airline pilots who always fly IFR? Do they have to be looking down on their instruments all the time or could they look out the window too like VFR pilots?

I always wondered if IFR meant IFR, always looking down on instruments for reference, even if there is clear weather outside.

You must do both. If the weather is good you are still responsible to see & avoid. That said, you still must scan to ensure you're remaining tight on altitude and course.

 

[MAKG1]

IFR in VMC does not excuse see and avoid. Consider what happens when you fly a GPS straight-in and someone else is in a VFR left pattern. Many instrument approaches have minimums below TPA.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

In this case, autopilot is a wonderful thing.

If I don't have it, I'm eyes down most of the flight.

 

[Velocity173]

You're on instruments but not nearly as much as when it's IMC. Generally you can look out for a decent amount of time and still be able to stay within PTS or whatever standard you're trying to adhere to. Also, in dual piloted aircraft, you still have the other pilot to alert you if you stray from course / altitude so it's not like you've got to be "inside" all the time.

 

[James331]

Both, typically if Im going a long ways I'll just pull a IFR, just so I don't have to bomb around some little cloud puff to stay legal, also eliminates my need to worry about airspace.

VMC, I'd say 70% outside 30% eyes inside, I just replace the AI with the big AI outside the windshield

 

[NoHeat]

For the pilots who fly under IFR on VFR days, do you actually fly under IFR on instruments just like you would be flying in IFR weather

No, regarding the use of instruments while flying in VMC.

Your question makes me wonder if terminology is causing some confusion.

"Fly under IFR" means to fly according to specific rules.
Instead of "IFR weather" I would say "IMC".
Instead of "VFR days" I would say "VMC".

I opt to fly under IFR for almost all cross country trips, even in VMC. That's because I want the safety provided by the rules -- ATC provides me separation from other IFR traffic, and my altitude is separating me from VFR traffic.

In VMC, my eyes do exactly the same job whether I'm flying under VFR or IFR - I mostly look out the window.

 

[docmirror]

In this case, autopilot is a wonderful thing.

If I don't have it, I'm eyes down most of the flight.

If you are in VMC conditions, you are doing it wrong.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

If you are in VMC conditions, you are doing it wrong.

 

[flyingron]

I opt to fly under IFR for almost all cross country trips, even in VMC. That's because I want the safety provided by the rules -- ATC provides me separation from other IFR traffic, and my altitude is separating me from VFR traffic.

If you believe that you are very dangerous indeed. Your altitude is not protecting you from VFR traffic climbing or descending or within 3000 feet of the ground.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

The greatest benefit of filing in VMC to me, being on the East Coast in the shadow of the SFRA, is the transparency of the special use airspace. Eyes are still outside, head is still on a swivel.

 

[midlifeflyer]

You're on instruments but not nearly as much as when it's IMC. Generally you can look out for a decent amount of time and still be able to stay within PTS or whatever standard you're trying to adhere to.

At least one would hope so!

As others said, "see and avoid" is for all pilots any time conditions allow other aircraft to be seen.

And, unless ones visual skills have degraded long term (they tend to degrade in the short term during instrument training, IMO the reason most commercial training comes afterward), being able to maintain altitude and heading withing IFR parameters by using that big attitude indicator in the sky (aka "Planet Earth") with brief, periodic confirmatory scans of the DG/HSI/NAV and ALT should be very simple. If they have degraded that badly long term, might be time for some down and dirty VFR cross countries!

 

[FlyingTiger]

You must wear foggles in VMC. Haven't you ever noticed the airline pilots wearing them when you were leaving the plane?

 

[flyingron]

The greatest benefit of filing in VMC to me, being on the East Coast in the shadow of the SFRA, is the transparency of the special use airspace. Eyes are still outside, head is still on a swivel.

You still have to watch the FRZ. A guy filed IFR into CGS one day without being vetted and for some unexplained reason ATC let him do it. He had a hard time getting out again.

 

[midlifeflyer]

You still have to watch the FRZ. A guy filed IFR into CGS one day without being vetted and for some unexplained reason ATC let him do it. He had a hard time getting out again.

Does ATC actually have an accessible list of flights currently permitted to enter the FRZ? I did not know that.

 

[kayoh190]

My guess is that I don't look outside nearly as much as I should. I make a conscious effort to look outside as much as possible, but I'm sure I can be doing more.

 

[SkyHog]

No, regarding the use of instruments while flying in VMC.

Your question makes me wonder if terminology is causing some confusion.

"Fly under IFR" means to fly according to specific rules.
Instead of "IFR weather" I would say "IMC".
Instead of "VFR days" I would say "VMC".

I opt to fly under IFR for almost all cross country trips, even in VMC. That's because I want the safety provided by the rules -- ATC provides me separation from other IFR traffic, and my altitude is separating me from VFR traffic.

In VMC, my eyes do exactly the same job whether I'm flying under VFR or IFR - I mostly look out the window.

Except ATC is not responsible for separation under VMC...

 

[Fearless Tower]

You must wear foggles in VMC. Haven't you ever noticed the airline pilots wearing them when you were leaving the plane?

That might explain that hellacious side-load they put on the gear on a recent flight...

 

[Sac Arrow]

For me it's normally pointless to go IFR in VMC conditions, but not always. It's easier (for me) to fly through LA airspace IFR, and if I have a long night flight, it's a guarantee that I will be able to have someone to talk to immediately if something goes South.

 

[jordane93]

If I'm IFR in VMC I'll look up occasionally but probably not as much as I should.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

What about airline pilots who always fly IFR? Do they have to be looking down on their instruments all the time or could they look out the window too like VFR pilots?

Once the autopilot comes on I enjoy the view. Even before then if I have it trimmed up.

 

[kayoh190]

What about airline pilots who always fly IFR? Do they have to be looking down on their instruments all the time or could they look out the window too like VFR pilots?

It's no different for us than a GA pilot - we're supposed to see and avoid when VMC. I probably spend a lot more time 'outside' when the AP is on, but I make an effort to look outside as much as possible while hand flying too. And of course the guy not at the controls is looking out (or should be) as well.

 

[midlifeflyer]

If I'm IFR in VMC I'll look up occasionally but probably not as much as I should.

If it's only "occasionally", it's definitely not as much as you should.

It really ought to be the opposite; mostly looking our the window and occasionally at the gauges.

If I'm IFR in VMC, I'll check the gauges a little more "occasionally" than when I'm VFR, but not by a a lot.

 

[frfly172]

Use IFR for IMC ,flight following for VMC,unless there is a chance of the weather changing. Sometimes don't involve ATC at all when flying.

 

[nddons]

Sometimes don't involve ATC at all when flying.

What? That's crazy talk!!!!!

 

[BigBadLou]

IFR in VMC is no biggie. Stare outside for see-and-avoid (airplanes, birds, balloons, drones, etc). Occasionally glance at your gauges to stay on altitude and course. If you can't do this, how do you fly VFR??

Again, should be no big deal.

And especially if you have A/P, just monitor the progress and enjoy the free hands to scratch your behind or play thumb wars.

 

[GCA319]

Here is a question I thought about for awhile but never gotten any clarification on it.

For the pilots who fly under IFR on VFR days, do you actually fly under IFR on instruments just like you would be flying in IFR weather or could you look out the window for the most part like on a VFR flight plan?

What about airline pilots who always fly IFR? Do they have to be looking down on their instruments all the time or could they look out the window too like VFR pilots?

I always wondered if IFR meant IFR, always looking down on instruments for reference, even if there is clear weather outside.

My instrument/outside scan when IFR in VMC is no different than it is when VFR.

 

[Kritchlow]

My instrument/outside scan when IFR in VMC is no different than it is when VFR.

Really?

 

[Kritchlow]

In this case, autopilot is a wonderful thing.

If I don't have it, I'm eyes down most of the flight.

Really again?

 

[simtech]

I flew IFR in VMC this weekend. I looked outside 95% of the time. If I looked inside it was a quick glance to see altitude and heading/gps. Actually most of my IFR flights are in VMC.

 

[Hank S]

In this case, autopilot is a wonderful thing.

If I don't have it, I'm eyes down most of the flight.

For God's sake, please never fly IFR around me! If you're not looking outside, how do you plan to "see and avoid" surrounding traffic?

Fly the plane just like when VFR except on the 1000-foot altitudes instead of the -500s. If I'm climbing or descending VFR, not using or already canceled Flight a Following, how are you going toad not run into me? Or the gliders I sometimes see spiraling up between clouds? Or skydivers? Or those planes with no radios--Cubs, Champs, Stearmans, etc?

Please look out that big window in front if you. It will indicate climbs, descents and turns, and a quick glance inside will confirm if it's happening or not. I do check course and altitude more often when IFR in VMC than when VFR simply because the standards are tighter for IFR. But mostly out the window.

 

[flyingron]

Does ATC actually have an accessible list of flights currently permitted to enter the FRZ? I did not know that.

It was a screw up on ATC's part, but ATC is not ultimately responsible, the pilot is.

 

[GCA319]

Really?

Really. Unless of course..I'm navigating solely by pilotage, which pretty much only happens when I fly on my own time for fun...which is almost never these days, but that aside...when in VMC conditions, my eyes are outside about 85 to 90% of the time regardless of which rules I am operating under and I don't set a lower standard for headings and altitudes for VFR than I do for IFR.

 

[Kritchlow]

Really. Unless of course..I'm navigating solely by pilotage, which pretty much only happens when I fly on my own time for fun...which is almost never these days.

Yeah,that works. Keeping a look out while checking inside.... Good work.

 

[Warrior]

I remember a midair in South Florida 2 or more years ago where a plane flying IFR collided with someone. It pays to be careful.

 

[N918KT]

Thanks for the response everyone! That answered my question. I guess you can say the only difference about flying IFR versus VFR in VMC is the having to file a flight plan.

 

[Bill Watson]

Thanks for the response everyone! That answered my question. I guess you can say the only difference about flying IFR versus VFR in VMC is the having to file a flight plan.

And consistently flying to standard; plus/minus 200ft in particular

 

[Palmpilot]

And consistently flying to standard; plus/minus 200ft in particular

The standard for IFR is +/- 100 feet (and +100/-0 on the final approach segment).

 

[Kritchlow]

Thanks for the response everyone! That answered my question. I guess you can say the only difference about flying IFR versus VFR in VMC is the having to file a flight plan.

Well, there are A LOT of differences other than filling a flight plan.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

Well, it looks like my one comment is apparently how I fly all of the time. My eyes are outside more than I made it seem, but I'm not going to bend over and explain it to everyone.