Proposed new rule(s) to Rules of Conduct

[wanttaja]

Agreed. There are no bad threads, only bad posters.

Agreed. The problem is, there are posters who bring their Spin Zone manners, conflicts, and attitudes to the "General" boards. You'll be reading a "Hangar Flying" thread that's a bit argumentative, then WHAM... a big slam against somebody for their liberal/conservative bent. And you wonder, "Where the heck did that come from....?"

Jim mentioned the USENET newsgroup rec.aviation.homebuilt; those who participated might recall when several folks group started their own "splinter" group because people were complaining how rough they were. They'd come over to RAH on occasion and post things like "You a******s should come join alt.aviation.fun!" Oddly enough, there were few a******s that actually did.

I enjoy a good spirited discussion, but the discussion should be based on the *ideas* exchanged, not the ideology of the poster, or the person's comments in other threads. I don't want to hear you complain that Ron Levy is a know-it-all *****; I want to see you post logical arguments to refute what he said.

Generally, things aren't bad. But one way to look at the boards is try to imagine the discussions being performed verbally around the water cooler at work. Too often, the discussions sound like drunken frat kids arguing at the next table. You can come up with good counter-arguments with what they're saying...but do you *really* want to get involved?

I see some comments about about "thin skinned people should stay away, anyway." News flash, folks: Most teenagers have pretty thin skins, but they're the kind of people we need to lure into flying. We need a more professional, helpful, environment.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[weilke]

I can't figure out how to keep my hamburgers from shrinking on the grill.
I made what seemed like nice large burgers tonight, threw them on the grill, and when I pulled them off, they were tiny.

Irritating.

Buy better meat.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Buy better meat.

You know what?
Mrs.6PC only buys that Laura's 97% lean beef
I bet that is why. If we got regular old ground beef I bet they wouldn't shrink up as much.

 

[txflyer]

I wouldn't mention my Mrs. and shrinking beef in the same post...

Wait a minute, I just did.

 

[weilke]

You know what?
Mrs.6PC only buys that Laura's 97% lean beef
I bet that is why. If we got regular old ground beef I bet they wouldn't shrink up as much.

It's lean because it is pumped up with water.

If god* wanted to make 97% lean hamburgers, he would make fat-free cows. With anything patty based, most of your fat is going to end up in the drip-pan or on the coals, so dont be afraid of some fat content.


*nondenominational reference to a higher being

 

[RV10flyer]

You know what?
Mrs.6PC only buys that Laura's 97% lean beef
I bet that is why. If we got regular old ground beef I bet they wouldn't shrink up as much.

Try 80/20 and keep the grille's lid open or you might also try smaller buns.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Try 80/20 and keep the grille's lid open or you might also try smaller buns.

Okay, that's good
I always keep the lid shut.

I will leave it up next go round.

Thank you

 

[txflyer]

Make sliders.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

It's lean because it is pumped up with water.

If god* wanted to make 97% lean hamburgers, he would make fat-free cows. With anything patty based, most of your fat is going to end up in the drip-pan or on the coals, so dont be afraid of some fat content.


*nondenominational reference to a higher being

Ok, That is good advice.
Next time, I will leave the lid up and not use so lean beef.

Thanks.

Can I get a "what What" for turning the "rules of conduct" thread into a cooking thread

 

[Palmpilot]

I drove to trader Joe's tonight, and hit EVERY light red!

 

[weilke]

Made an awesome roast on friday night *sound of patting myself on the back*, it sat in a marinade of beer, vinegar, black-pepper, onions and ginger since wed. Browned the outside in vegetable oil and then off into the oven for 1hr at 450 and 2hrs at 275. Mhh, yummy.

 

[murphey]

Ok, That is good advice.
Next time, I will leave the lid up and not use so lean beef.

Thanks.

Can I get a "what What" for turning the "rules of conduct" thread into a cooking thread

According to many reputable cooks/chefs (including Julia & Alton Brown, our favorite pilot-chef) meat for burgers should be no more than 85% lean. In other words, 15-20% fat. After cooking, let the burger sit, covered in foil, for about 5-10 minutes. They will still be warm and much jucier.

It pains me to watch people grill burgers outside and smash them down to flat patties. All that does is squash the juices out, leaving a very dry chunk of meat. No wonder A1 & ketchup are such big sellers. If you cook the burger properly, you really don't need additional junk.

 

[Geico266]

Personal attacks, revolution, burgers, humor, thread drift, Nazis, silliness to serious. Please reread this entire thread and tell me why anything at POA needs to be changed.

 

[JOhnH]

I think this thread has run its course and should be closed.

 

[FastEddieB]

I think this thread has run its course and should be closed.

Don't be hasty - no one has said goodbye yet!

 

[SCCutler]

The "owner" of the forum can obviously do as he wishes and make any rules that he wants or lock any threads that he wants. For me I spend more time on POA than on any other forum due to it NOT being over moderated. I used to spend most of my time on a certain Van's aircraft forum but spend very little time there now due to over moderation. Over moderation actually makes it seem artificial, fake. After a while you only see the moderators "Polyanna" view of how things should be and how people should get along. I can understand that things can get out of hand but in my opinion the forum will not get the traffic it does now if moderation goes too far.

You may be interested to know that the Pilots of America forum is owned by Pilots of America, a Not-for-Profit Corporation, chartered in the state of Pennsylvania. The non-profit was created explicitly for the purpose of protecting POA's mission of serving the pilots and general aviation community.

The Management Council is all-volunteer, and a reasonably diverse group of personalities. And (trust me), being a forum mod is not trivial (I knew not what I was getting into!).

 

[Rigged4Flight]

I'm leaving PoA!




















Just kidding ;-)

 

[JOhnH]

Don't be hasty - no one has said goodbye yet!

Sorry. I was thinking about the OP:

Some recent thread locks by the MC suggest some rules are being acted on that do not appear in the Rules of Conduct . To minimize surprise and reduce follow-up sniping, it may help to make these rules explicit in the FAQ. The rules that would need to be added appear to be:

• When a thread "runs it course" it will be locked.
• When a thread "goes off track" it will be locked.
• When a poster states they are leaving Pilots of America, the thread that post appears in will be locked.

I thoroughly understand the MC's position. And they warned us several days ago they would be taking action. I know they had a tough decision but I just wish they would take action against the guilty parties. At least a few PMs with some escalating warnings would be good. Even if I am one of the violators.

Without going back, I think it was Mark that said some of the attitude from the SZ spills over to the general forums. He was exactly correct in that. I think a few reminders could help most of the violators correct themselves. If not, then those few that won't abide should be banished.

 

[EppyGA]

Don't be hasty - no one has said goodbye yet!

He's not really goodbye. He's been checking in since his proclamation of goodbye

 

[EppyGA]

Agreed. The problem is, there are posters who bring their Spin Zone manners, conflicts, and attitudes to the "General" boards. You'll be reading a "Hangar Flying" thread that's a bit argumentative, then WHAM... a big slam against somebody for their liberal/conservative bent. And you wonder, "Where the heck did that come from....?"

Yep, they really should leave the attitude in the SZ.

 

[josephbelt01]

I like the sirloin hamburger patties from BJs. I'm believe Costco has something similar. They're 1/3lb and don't shrink up so much. A good burger needs decent fat content. Use the big Sara Lee or Pepperidge Farms buns. Top it with some raspberry chipotle sauce for good measure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bill]

According to many reputable cooks/chefs (including Julia & Alton Brown, our favorite pilot-chef) meat for burgers should be no more than 85% lean.

100% agree, anything more lean that this leads to dry tasteless burger.

 

[Edgefly]

As a curiosity, I would like to know which forums members of the POA consider "over-moderated" . One of the above posts indicates "some RV forum" and another cites having left a forum or forums due to over moderation without specifying them. Personally, I no longer read or participate in the "red board " for reasons of dissatisfaction with the sponsoring organization rather than the forum operation myself. For my satisfaction, I would favor more topic control rather than civility, wandering, etc. There is always FACEBOOK if you want to learn how to scramble EMU eggs. The POA should be for members to discuss
Aviation topics not to post pictures of grandchildren (unless they are taking lessons or something)

 

[jtheune]

Here's a suggestion to battle the hiding behind a screen name issue. Allow users to maintain a screen name so bots can access the name but allow a registered user to request a real name from the system. Perhaps this might temper some of the rude behavior if people knew they could not hide. Make outing a poster a death sentence ( permanent ban ) to keep the original posters argument about the internet valid.

 

[FastEddieB]

As a curiosity, I would like to know which forums members of the POA consider "over-moderated".

I was on a CT forum briefly a few years ago.

I wanted to mention what Cirrus owners used on their composite planes - I think it was Scrubbing Bubbles for exhaust and oil stains.

I was first warned not to mention aircraft brands other than the CT. I pondered how that might make discussing cirrus clouds problematical.

Then I reposted without the aircraft brand, and was warned not to discuss non-aviation products, such as Scrubbing Bubbles (or Pledge or whatever the product was).

That was enough. Left and never went back. Found a better forum for me at CTFlier.com. Though I don't own a CT there's still a wealth of information about Light Sport in general and often ROTAX in specific. Some moderation, but very close to that "Goldilocks Zone" of not too little and not too much.

Had a similar experience with a BMW motorcycle forum. Again, there was a far better alternative available.

Again, I generally favor less moderation rather than more. But when someone wishes ill on another member or another member's children, that requires swift action.

 

[timwinters]

As a curiosity, I would like to know which forums members of the POA consider "over-moderated" .

When Fred Johnson first started CPS (Cessna Pilots' Society) it was a really fun place to hang out at. Fred was a little "rough around the edges" himself, didn't mind a bit of off-color humor, and even threw quite a bit of it around himself.

But, unfortunately, Fred had a life change and backed out of both aviation and the forum. Fred is a great guy, it was a big loss for both aviation and CPS.

CPS was then taken over by a bunch of puritans. One actually posted that it was his view on moderating was "if it's not fit for my 13 year-old daughter to read then it's not fit for this forum."

Really?

A bunch of grown men (mostly, with a few women thrown in, just like here) are supposed to talk only about subjects appropriate for a 13 year-old girl? Really, Dave? Is that what the conversations at the local hangar sound like on a Saturday morning? And, as she grows can our diversity of posts at CPS grow too?

Seriously, it was (and likely still is) ridiculous. I got severely reprimanded for telling a joke that included the word "cunnilingus."

I got suspended another time for telling the truth about one of the mods when he went public with PM that I sent to him. One mod said something like "our board of directors honors the privacy of private messages" to which I responded "yes, six of you do" (there were seven). Tim got a time out!

Tim's no angel (we all know that), I have many faults also and have stirred up my share of sh*t in the past, here and there and everywhere. But, seriously, I'm in the minor leagues compared to some of you guys who seem to revel in making posts with the explicit purpose of pizzing off the masses and/or proving that you're superior to everyone else.

and I agree REAL NAMES should be required as I've said many times before.

 

[Bill]

CPS was then taken over by a bunch of puritans. One actually posted that it was his view on moderating was "if it's not fit for my 13 year-old daughter to read then it's not fit for this forum."

Really?

I'm on two motorcycle mailing lists (remember those, back before forums?), one is pretty much self regulating, while the other is strickly moderated to be "moto only". NO off topic discussion.

The moderated one has a little activity for a few weeks near the date of the annual get together but otherwise is just crickets chirping.

The self regulating list is like PoA, a diverse group of individuals discussing diverse subject matter, and I love it.

I think the mods here do a good job, I wouldn't consider this forum to be highly moderated at all. Mostly anything goes here as long as you keep personal attacks out of the picture.

 

[Geico266]

I'm on two motorcycle mailing lists (remember those, back before forums?), one is pretty much self regulating, while the other is strickly moderated to be "moto only". NO off topic discussion.

The moderated one has a little activity for a few weeks near the date of the annual get together but otherwise is just crickets chirping.

The self regulating list is like PoA, a diverse group of individuals discussing diverse subject matter, and I love it.

I think the mods here do a good job, I wouldn't consider this forum to be highly moderated at all. Mostly anything goes here as long as you keep personal attacks out of the picture.

Maybe we should all call out people who do that? Self moderate a tad more?

 

[denverpilot]

ROFL!!!

 

[Bill]

Maybe we should all call out people who do that? Self moderate a tad more?

IMHO that only seems to work well when the members actually have met and/or know each other in person. I've been a member of the fun motorcycle list for 20 years and have met nearly everyone.

 

[docmirror]

Maybe we should all call out people who do that? Self moderate a tad more?

I don't think having others call out people would be considered self-moderation. Self moderation would be when I realize what I've posted is troublesome and redact it. What you are proposing sounds more like peer-moderation, from those outside of the person posting, but not rising to the level of MC moderation.

I'm all for self-moderation, and I've done it in the past, editing a post that may have been too offensive. I'm not at all in favor of peer-moderation. If you want to decide what's ok and not ok for others to write, ask to join the MC and get the badge and gun. Otherwise, make your point, and let the chips fall. If you think I've been out of line, and you send me a PM about it, I will refer you to the MC.

 

[Jim Rosenow]

Add me to the band-wagon for real-name AND location for posters. I saw that post indicating this didn't help the civility issue, but would question that, and would like to see a link supporting the premise.

I'm curious why people feel the need to hide behind an alias.

It appears the Spin Zone was created to give the hard-core 'arguers' a place to do it, and it would be nice if it stayed there.

Jim

 

[JOhnH]

Add me to the band-wagon for real-name AND location for posters. I saw that post indicating this didn't help the civility issue, but would question that, and would like to see a link supporting the premise.

I'm curious why people feel the need to hide behind an alias.

Phishing and spammers and scammers. My email mailbox fills up with attempts to trick me into donating money to theives every day. Yesterday at home, my phone rang and the caller ID said it was me calling me. Identity theft gets easier the more strangers know about you.

It appears the Spin Zone was created to give the hard-core 'arguers' a place to do it, and it would be nice if it stayed there.

Jim

I'm with you there. I invite anyone to call me out if I show that tendency outside of the SZ.

 

[gkainz]

According to many reputable cooks/chefs (including Julia & Alton Brown, our favorite pilot-chef) meat for burgers should be no more than 85% lean. In other words, 15-20% fat. After cooking, let the burger sit, covered in foil, for about 5-10 minutes. They will still be warm and much jucier.

It pains me to watch people grill burgers outside and smash them down to flat patties. All that does is squash the juices out, leaving a very dry chunk of meat. No wonder A1 & ketchup are such big sellers. If you cook the burger properly, you really don't need additional junk.

QFT!!! x a bazillion

 

[docmirror]

I'm curious why people feel the need to hide behind an alias.


Jim

Your right to remain curious is no problem for me.

Using real names in a chat room has far more exposure problems than solving a localized manners problem. It's just like anything else, if you want to do something, then do it. If others don't why do you feel the need to get someone else to do your bidding for you on a public board? We have enough rules, regs, laws, ordinances, etc.

 

[Everskyward]

Add me to the band-wagon for real-name AND location for posters. I saw that post indicating this didn't help the civility issue, but would question that, and would like to see a link supporting the premise.

I'm curious why people feel the need to hide behind an alias.

One logistical problem would be how you are going to prove that is your real name and not some made-up name or someone else's name.

 

[Jim Rosenow]

Phishing and spammers and scammers. My email mailbox fills up with attempts to trick me into donating money to theives every day. Yesterday at home, my phone rang and the caller ID said it was me calling me. Identity theft gets easier the more strangers know about you.

Everyone on this site knows my name and location. Help me understand how that affects my email or phone. If someone shows up at my front door, that's a direct effect, and we'll have coffee ready.

Jim

PS- Somebody give me a call or send me an email and I'll become a believer

 

[Jim Rosenow]

One logistical problem would be how you are going to prove that is your real name and not some made-up name or someone else's name.

I suppose the authentication could always be sent by snail mail Where there's a will, there's a way...LOL!

Jim

 

[PPC1052]

Some recent thread locks by the MC suggest some rules are being acted on that do not appear in the Rules of Conduct . To minimize surprise and reduce follow-up sniping, it may help to make these rules explicit in the FAQ. The rules that would need to be added appear to be:

• When a thread "runs it course" it will be locked.
• When a thread "goes off track" it will be locked.
• When a poster states they are leaving Pilots of America, the thread that post appears in will be locked.

I could be wrong, but it seems that the real rule is that the thread will be locked when it turns into just a needlessly long thread of bashing one individual, or two or more members bashing each other. I have no problem with such a rule. These 3 I am not sure of.

 

[wsuffa]

I could be wrong, but it seems that the real rule is that the thread will be locked when it turns into just a needlessly long thread of bashing one individual, or two or more members bashing each other. I have no problem with such a rule. These 3 I am not sure of.

We have a winner.