Proposed new rule(s) to Rules of Conduct

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Jim Logajan

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Some recent thread locks by the MC suggest some rules are being acted on that do not appear in the Rules of Conduct . To minimize surprise and reduce follow-up sniping, it may help to make these rules explicit in the FAQ. The rules that would need to be added appear to be:

  • When a thread "runs it course" it will be locked.
  • When a thread "goes off track" it will be locked.
  • When a poster states they are leaving Pilots of America, the thread that post appears in will be locked.
 
Someone please lock the thread.
Meta-Threads should be locked
 
Jim Logajan said:
  • When a thread "runs it course" it will be locked.
  • When a thread "goes off track" it will be locked.
  • When a poster states they are leaving Pilots of America, the thread that post appears in will be locked.
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I disagree with the first two, at least.

1) Many threads run in "fits and starts". They may seem to have up run their courses, but then get a second wind.

2) Conversations tend to meander. Lots of interesting content has come up which is barely relevant to the original topic.

Even three seems arbitrary. A thread on an interesting topic deserves to die because one person makes a single "goodbye" post? Seems illogical.

All three smack of over-moderation, which can really dampen the dynamism of a forum. Speaking only for myself, I don't see the need - if a thread wanders or is on the verge of petering out, we can all simply lose interest in it and stop clicking.
 
Blue Loctite will usually lock a thread quite well.
 
Cuz -- more rules make for better life. I know, lets get approval from a mod before any new thread can be started? Wait, mod approval for all posts in all threads. Wait - mods will edit all posts in all threads so that they are 'acceptable'.

One of the things I like most about POA is the very gentle hand that the MC exercises in thread locking or post removal. Of course, there are a certain segment of people who need external authority to stand up for themselves.

http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4317403/BUTT+HURT+REPORT+FORM/
 
Jim Logajan said:
Some recent thread locks by the MC suggest some rules are being acted on that do not appear in the Rules of Conduct . To minimize surprise and reduce follow-up sniping, it may help to make these rules explicit in the FAQ. The rules that would need to be added appear to be:

  • When a thread "runs it course" it will be locked.
  • When a thread "goes off track" it will be locked.
  • When a poster states they are leaving Pilots of America, the thread that post appears in will be locked.
Click to expand...

The threads that were locked today were locked for other reasons. The MC is discussing (in general) the (lack of) civility by which some members treat others in the forums.
 
Personally, I don't see any problems with POA. It works.
 
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wsuffa said:
The threads that were locked today were locked for other reasons. The MC is discussing (in general) the (lack of) civility by which some members treat others in the forums.
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Then may I suggest that the real reason be stated, please. The more explicit the MC is in calling out specific posts and posters, explaining how a poster might have made their point in a more civil manner, the more likely they are to that they change their behavior - assuming change is at all possible.

I would not bring this issue up at all but I felt some of the threads (recently and in the past) that got locked seemed to punish the civil posters more than the uncivil posters, in my humble opinion, which I find most unfortunate. I'd much rather the MC publicly call out the posts and posters they find objectionable, being as specific as possible to what edits might have been made to the post to make it civil - or whether the post even added anything at all short of vitriol?

(Thread locking seems to me to be a tool of dubious utility.)
 
Make all members moderators.
Just for a couple days. That would be awesome!

The train wreck would be talked about years into the future.
 
I think there are some very thin skinned people here who can dish it out but can't take it. There are also some who are very angry at life. Allowing their actions and/or temper tantrums to dictate the rules seems akin to allowing a 2 year old to rule the roost.

I can appreciate the MC scramble to try and get things under control, but it doesn't seem to be too bad here to me. Maybe some polling of members to test the relevance of some perceived problems before going draconian driving everyone away would be prudent.
 
Since no one asked my opinion, I'll give it. lol

I would advise that if you are going to quote someone, you better know what the heck you are doing. Otherwise, just make your point in your own way, without the quoted text. If you do quote someone, and you screw up - be prepared for the end of the world coming down on you, justifiably. Better yet, don't quote anyone and it's all good.
 
Locking threads and censoring things kinda defeats the point of a forum built so people can freely converse.
 
I just saw that the SI swimsuit thread has been locked. That sucks.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Then may I suggest that the real reason be stated, please. The more explicit the MC is in calling out specific posts and posters, explaining how a poster might have made their point in a more civil manner, the more likely they are to that they change their behavior - assuming change is at all possible.

I would not bring this issue up at all but I felt some of the threads (recently and in the past) that got locked seemed to punish the civil posters more than the uncivil posters, in my humble opinion, which I find most unfortunate. I'd much rather the MC publicly call out the posts and posters they find objectionable, being as specific as possible to what edits might have been made to the post to make it civil - or whether the post even added anything at all short of vitriol?

(Thread locking seems to me to be a tool of dubious utility.)
Click to expand...

Since day one of this board the MC has had a policy (even listed in the RoC) that we were not discussing bans, suspensions, or warnings.

We also made it clear with the creation of Spin Zone that political or similar "hot" topics belong there and that the MC would move threads or lock threads at our discretion if they became primarily "Spin" material.

Thread drift is OK. Making a thread in the non-spin portion into political or Spin material is not. Personal attacks are not OK. Making PoA an unfriendly place is not OK. Remember that posts in the main sections are public & indexed by search engines.

All that said, we appreciate your comments and will take them into consideration as we discuss what, if anything, to do.
 
The original "Measles" thread was also an interesting, vibrant thread.

Like the SI thread, what end was achieved by locking it?

Those who find the content uninteresting or divisive can simply ignore them.

As I do to every "Climate Change" thread.
 
Please Note:

Prior to starting this thread I had sent a private message to Adam Zucker after I saw a thread get locked, and thought the reason given as slightly incredible. I did not see the need to make a public complaint.

Then a short while later I saw another thread locked right after that, so I started this thread.

Adam contacted me and asked to discuss the thread locks by phone since that would actually be quicker than an online message dialog. So I took his offer and called him. He explained in more depth the reasons for the thread locks and, at least from my end, it was a reasonable call.

I know that action sometimes need to be taken if things are to be kept reasonably civil, and I appreciate Adam for taking time out of his day to listen to what I had to say. (Basically the points I made in post 8.)
 
FastEddieB said:
The original "Measles" thread was also an interesting, vibrant thread.

Like the SI thread, what end was achieved by locking it?

Those who find the content uninteresting or divisive can simply ignore them.

As I do to every "Climate Change" thread.
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:yeahthat:

There should be a alternate website

PWMEO

Pilots Who are Meek and Easily Offended.
 
wsuffa said:
Since day one of this board the MC has had a policy (even listed in the RoC) that we were not discussing bans, suspensions, or warnings.
Click to expand...

I reviewed the wording of RoC prior to starting this thread - in fact I linked to it. I wanted to avoid any mention of any announced bans, suspensions, or warnings. I hoped that it was clear my intent was regarding policy (unless that is also off limits; let me know.) I wanted to suggest some change in policy - perhaps by using more timely (i.e. earlier) and precise intervention so as to avoid too much collateral damage using blunt force tactics later.

We also made it clear with the creation of Spin Zone that political or similar "hot" topics belong there and that the MC would move threads or lock threads at our discretion if they became primarily "Spin" material.
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I agreed with that. I have even posted "This thread belongs in SZ" on occasion.

Thread drift is OK. Making a thread in the non-spin portion into political or Spin material is not. Personal attacks are not OK. Making PoA an unfriendly place is not OK. Remember that posts in the main sections are public & indexed by search engines.

All that said, we appreciate your comments and will take them into consideration as we discuss what, if anything, to do.
Click to expand...
I appreciate all that and the "no win" positions you are often put into and it bothers me to add to that unpleasant position.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Please Note:

Prior to starting this thread I had sent a private message to Adam Zucker after I saw a thread get locked, and thought the reason given as slightly incredible. I did not see the need to make a public complaint.

Then a short while later I saw another thread locked right after that, so I started this thread.

Adam contacted me and asked to discuss the thread locks by phone since that would actually be quicker than an online message dialog. So I took his offer and called him. He explained in more depth the reasons for the thread locks and, at least from my end, it was a reasonable call.

I know that action sometimes need to be taken if things are to be kept reasonably civil, and I appreciate Adam for taking time out of his day to listen to what I had to say. (Basically the points I made in post 8.)
Click to expand...

The Management Council has a good handle on how to run an open and vibrant forum. This is why POA works! Leave well enough alone. I have left forums that were over moderated. Censorship hurts all of us.
 
I think the OP went over a lot of people's heads. He's not (necessarily) saying he wants new rules...
 
The "owner" of the forum can obviously do as he wishes and make any rules that he wants or lock any threads that he wants. For me I spend more time on POA than on any other forum due to it NOT being over moderated. I used to spend most of my time on a certain Van's aircraft forum but spend very little time there now due to over moderation. Over moderation actually makes it seem artificial, fake. After a while you only see the moderators "Polyanna" view of how things should be and how people should get along. I can understand that things can get out of hand but in my opinion the forum will not get the traffic it does now if moderation goes too far.
 
James331 said:
:yeahthat:

There should be a alternate website

PWMEO

Pilots Who are Meek and Easily Offended.
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its called the Red Board - no politics or opinions allowed. Unless it involves buying a Bonanza eventually.
 
I suppose moderation in this forum is not "perfect", nothing is.

But I vote it's been moderated very, very well....
 
The only thing I'll say...and that I've said before...is that if you have a rule then enforce it. If you're not willing to enforce it then get rid of the rule.
 
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Oh, that, and, grammer/spellin'/punctuashun nazis should get an imediate 30th day suspenshun!!!!!

:)
 
timwinters said:
Oh, that, and, grammer/spellin'/punctuashun nazis should get an imediate 30th day suspenshun!!!!!

:)
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As well as people who use the word "Nazi" in a post! (Oops, I guess that takes care of you and me then! :D)
 
Double Godwin!

Psych! hehehee...
 
dmspilot said:
I think the OP went over a lot of people's heads. He's not (necessarily) saying he wants new rules...
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FastEddieB said:
You're right.

I thought he was himself a mod, putting forth suggestions.

Too oblique for me!
Click to expand...

Sorry about that. I was needlessly oblique.

I do appreciate the light moderation. But then, I spent over 15 years on Usenet groups, most of which had no moderation, so I've seen much worse (and I know many reading this have also seen worse.)

But locking threads some time after the damage has been done wouldn't seem to tie the punishment to the perps (or reverse the damage.) No single poster will think they are at fault for a locked thread if fault is not stated. Deleting offending posts, warning posters in private, explaining the problems with offending posts as neutrally as possible in public - these would likely seem more direct and effective in reducing future uncivility than locking threads, since the former involve direct feedback. But they also involve LOTS more work, and that is asking a lot of volunteers with day jobs. I've seen some of those things done, but it seems rare these days (I've had a few of my own posts deleted, so I know it happens!)
 
Jim Logajan said:
Some recent thread locks by the MC suggest some rules are being acted on that do not appear in the Rules of Conduct . To minimize surprise and reduce follow-up sniping, it may help to make these rules explicit in the FAQ. The rules that would need to be added appear to be:

  • When a thread "runs it course" it will be locked.
  • When a thread "goes off track" it will be locked.
  • When a poster states they are leaving Pilots of America, the thread that post appears in will be locked.
Click to expand...


• Threads don't run a coarse, they get sidetracked or bog down. That can be moderated.
• Ditto
• Locking a thread because someone during the course of it says bye bye is not how it's done. Who cares? Now if they START a thread saying a hateful bye-bye, that's a lock and should be forbidden. No farewell threads. Just leave.


If a particular poster or two are raising hell all the time, how about sending them on vacation once in a while? They'll either straighten up, or leave. :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
If a particular poster or two are raising hell all the time, how about sending them on vacation once in a while? They'll either straighten up, or leave. :dunno:
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Or we could have a once a month "who gets voted off the island this month?" thread.

That would be a hoot. :goofy:
 
timwinters said:
Or we could have a once a month "who gets voted off the island this month?" thread.

That would be a hoot. :goofy:
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I like the idea of a 'penalty box' thread where naughty boys are sent and that's the ONLY thread they can post in for a while.

You can go in there and beat up on them. :D
 
Why do we want to lock threads,and who should decide when a thread has run it course. Everyone has the right to express an opinion.
 
wsuffa said:
Thread drift is OK.
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I can't figure out how to keep my hamburgers from shrinking on the grill.
I made what seemed like nice large burgers tonight, threw them on the grill, and when I pulled them off, they were tiny.

Irritating.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I can't figure out how to keep my hamburgers from shrinking on the grill.
I made what seemed like nice large burgers tonight, threw them on the grill, and when I pulled them off, they were tiny.

Irritating.
Click to expand...
DriftCardOrangeLG.jpg
 
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