Private Plane

Get a Comanche 400 with the tip tanks, bonus points for turbo normalization.:eek:
 
I throw it out there often, but the Commander 114 should probably be put in the discussion. Falls closer to the T-182 than a Mooney 201 in terms of speed, but definitely a solid IFR bird and likely the most comfortable of the bunch.


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I know for a fact, clean t210m's are selling in your budget, you just aren't going to see those deals on the world wide internets.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I know for a fact, clean t210m's are selling in your budget, you just aren't going to see those deals on the world wide internets.
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iamtheari said:
Trips that short would take longer in a twin than a single simply because the preflight and run up would eat away any time advantage from the extra speed. I never get the obsession with a fast plane for short trips. My plane goes 130 knots at 65% power and the only time I have really wished I had a faster plane has been on trips over 400 nm. (Incidentally, my iPhone just now wanted to correct nm to mm so perhaps that's why the OP wrote mm.)

300 nm at:
100 knots = 3:00
130 knots = 2:18
140 knots = 2:09
150 knots = 2:00
160 knots = 1:53
180 knots = 1:40
200 knots = 1:30

The major time savings come in the first 30 knots or so above 100. After that you're mostly burning more fuel to save fewer minutes and the diminishing returns in time can quickly go away due to a more complex plane requiring more time between the hangar and the runway.
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Yep. It's a percentage thing. You are definitely right about speed not having much of an impact on short trips, but then "short" is a relative term. I've seen people comparing 200 nm or 250 nm trips and they don't look at those as short. Whereas my trips start at 250 nm and go up from there. :cool:

Although, if you add 15 knots of headwind you'll find the time deltas grow. The other thing I noticed was the speed came from more horsepower, which also significantly helps the climb rate. That means you get to cruise speed quicker, and to the cooler/smoother air quicker.

We did a couple of long trips (760+ nm and 850 nm each way) in an Arrow one summer with the family. It was near max gross at take-off. I thought we were never going to get to 9,000'. In the SR22 we climb to 9,10,11k easily. Going from 200 hp to 310 hp makes a big difference, not only going from 135 kts to 170 kts, but also the climb rate improved even more.

Here's an image of a speed - distance matrix I created years ago. This is my second version as I moved up from an Arrow to a SR22. These are just speed for distance, no account for climb time.

speeds2.jpg
 
I used to own an Arrow IV, flight planned 137kts. Upgraded to a Mooney Ovation, fly slow LOP for economy and still flight plan 175. And climb rate can be near double. That's a 40kt advantage. Even my quick 100nm summer flights to Cape Cod are very noticeably shorter.

And then range is a huge speed mod. I can now get to FL in 5 hours reliably. The Arrow took almost double in large part due to the required half way fuel stop.

Yes a few kts won't change your life but there are piston singles that will go 100, like a lot of trainers up to turbo models that are over 200, the king being an Acclaim type S that can do 242 at 25k feet where sometimes you can pick up HUGE tailwinds. So if you're picking a traveling plane, don't discount speed. It totally changed how I use the plane...


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Who can sit in a GA plane for 5 hours? I probably could do it, but my wife can't do 2 without complaining loudly.
 
Salty said:
Who can sit in a GA plane for 5 hours? I probably could do it, but my wife can't do 2 without complaining loudly.
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If its hot or cold on the ground its a pretty good motivator to stay at altitude as long as possible.
 
Salty said:
Who can sit in a GA plane for 5 hours? I probably could do it, but my wife can't do 2 without complaining loudly.
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If you're going to the Bahamas, 5 hours is not so bad.

I need to do this trip again sometime. Wheels up at 6:30 AM from North Carolina. Fuel Stop Ft. Pierce... by 12:30 I was on the ferry from Marsh Harbor to Guana Cay.
 
It's a big hassle to drop down from 7500+ feet and land and shut down and get gas and taxi back take off and climb out. Lot of work just to stretch my legs... and always seems to kill an hour.


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Salty said:
Who can sit in a GA plane for 5 hours? I probably could do it, but my wife can't do 2 without complaining loudly.
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Thats what the intercom isolation button is for...

TheGolfPilot said:
I know for a fact, clean t210m's are selling in your budget, you just aren't going to see those deals on the world wide internets.
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Do tell! Im in the market for a 210, prefer not turbo, but maybe with the 300 conversion.
 
Where the fuel stop adds retarded time is IFR. VFR, I can Formula 1 pit stop that thing wheels down to wheels up in 25 minutes. IFR though, forget it, that just kills the ETE. Arrivals alone on these category A/B airplanes add like 15 minutes, let alone clearance and release x2. No thanks.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I throw it out there often, but the Commander 114 should probably be put in the discussion. Falls closer to the T-182 than a Mooney 201 in terms of speed, but definitely a solid IFR bird and likely the most comfortable of the bunch.


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What's the factory support like?
 
Salty said:
Who can sit in a GA plane for 5 hours? I probably could do it, but my wife can't do 2 without complaining loudly.
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You need a bigger plane with a toilet.
 
Tantalum said:
Incidentally, out of curiosity I looked up the price of old SR22s out of curiosity, OP mentioned he needed speed, so wanted to check.. how are these lowish time 22s so cheap (relatively speaking)?

View attachment 52703
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Gotta budget $100/hr for eventual chute repack?
 
paflyer said:
What's the factory support like?
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From what I hear, pretty good since they solely exist as a parts supplier at this point. I'm sure there are a handful of parts that could be unobtanium, but that goes the same for many aircraft from the 1960's & 1970's. It's certainly on par with a Comanche in that regard.
 
gsengle said:
That's the point. An Ovation is not a turbo. It's a NA io550. Its so well designed doesn't even need cowl flaps. Simple. I fly it slow at 175 on 13gph lean of peak. I like effiency. Zoom in on the photo and see what's what...

Here is an excellent review: http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20R Evaluation/M20R.htm

And here is a low price point example... https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17233311/1997-mooney-m20r-ovation


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Well, you also have to fit into it to be comfortable for 5 hours. Speed ain't free.
 
paflyer said:
Well, you also have to fit into it to be comfortable for 5 hours. Speed ain't free.
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Wider than a Bonanza or an Arrow. Al Mooney was 6'5". The modern ones are a lot more comfortable than people think. Most who criticize em haven't flown in one. Go fly in one...


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gsengle said:
Wider than a Bonanza or an Arrow. Al Mooney was 6'5". The modern ones are a lot more comfortable than people think. Most who criticize em haven't flown in one. Go fly in one...


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Al designed it for himself. Depends on how you and your pax are built/
 
Yup. But solo or with two on board one seat pushed back it's pretty roomy...


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SoonerAviator said:
From what I hear, pretty good since they solely exist as a parts supplier at this point. I'm sure there are a handful of parts that could be unobtanium, but that goes the same for many aircraft from the 1960's & 1970's. It's certainly on par with a Comanche in that regard.
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And you think that's a compliment? That's a terrible indictment.
 
paflyer said:
Gotta budget $100/hr for eventual chute repack?
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Yeah... not so much! But the security of a second engine also wouldn't come without a cost (though full disclosure my somewhat-not-out-of-the-realm-of-possibility dream plane would be a Cessna 421. Or if I won the lottery a TBM!

The OP had a pretty tall list of demands... relatively low price of $60K to $100K and fast speeds, I'd be curious what they end up ultimately deciding to go with! Realistically the Mooney is probably the best option and what I'd be looking at as well with those kinds of requirements
 
Tantalum said:
Yeah... not so much! But the security of a second engine also wouldn't come without a cost (though full disclosure my somewhat-not-out-of-the-realm-of-possibility dream plane would be a Cessna 421. Or if I won the lottery a TBM!

The OP had a pretty tall list of demands... relatively low price of $60K to $100K and fast speeds, I'd be curious what they end up ultimately deciding to go with! Realistically the Mooney is probably the best option and what I'd be looking at as well with those kinds of requirements
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Price is probably a little more flexible, I was very conservative in my original post, our absolute max cap would probably be 200k assuming everything goes as planned. A mooney is still probably the best bet, or maybe a SR-22.
 
Stets656 said:
Price is probably a little more flexible, I was very conservative in my original post, our absolute max cap would probably be 200k assuming everything goes as planned. A mooney is still probably the best bet, or maybe a SR-22.
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Whatever your short list don't make a choice without flying each type. Specs never tell the whole story, and you will have your own preferences...


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Let's just hypothetically say my max price cap is 200k. Am I mostly just looking at upgraded Mooeny models and SR-22s?
 
paflyer said:
Gotta budget $100/hr for eventual chute repack?
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No, it's by calendar time, so more like $1,200 / year. If you only fly 12 hours per year, then yeah it also worked out to $100 / hour. Hopefully you fly more than that, especially if you own a plane.
 
Oshkosh 3.jpg 217.JPG
turbo Bonanza....I don't have anywhere near 100K in mine.;)

195 kts TAS @ 17.5K ft and 16.5 gph....
 
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flight2000 said:
Nope, not wrong at all. It's past the magic "TBO" recommendation of 1700 hours for the IO520, but if the engine is still purring along and the engine oil analysis is good, then it could go another 100, 200, 300+ hours before an overhaul is needed. Figure anywhere from $30-$50K for a Major on the IO-520 depending on who and what type you want to go with (new, rebuild, or field overhaul).

Brian
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Except for the expensive SB that may become an AD. Watch the prices start dropping on anything With a CMI 520/550 in it. Ouch!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Let me be perfectly clear. There isn't a naturally aspirated cardinal or Arrow on this earth that will make 140kts. 130 is even pushing it for those planes in cruise. I think 130 is also more realistic for the Tiger as well.
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Own a Tiger. Routinely 135 knots true airspeed at 7-8000 ft.
 
gsengle said:
I've flown my FIKI Ovation nonstop over 1000nm to FL, the range is amazing. The ultimate speed mod is skipping a fuel stop. I think the best value are the early ones before G1000, they're generally really well equipped, here is my example. Sounds like you're not sold on Turbo. But will run you a wee bit more than 100k... if not an Ovation, the K is really fast if you're willing to fly high.

1cd8a74989688a0813b77f07827b201f.jpg



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JCranford said:
Dayum, that's beautimous!
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:yeahthat:

Nice to see someone with a six-pack who does not feel compelled to rip out the left side for a big screen display.

Too bad the gear retracts!
(I'm joking, I'm joking... :D )
 
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Rcmutz said:
Except for the expensive SB that may become an AD. Watch the prices start dropping on anything With a CMI 520/550 in it. Ouch!
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I don't believe it will become an AD, but I could be wrong on that. AOPA and ABS have already started working on this effort to keep it as an MSB or at least reword the poorly written CMI version to say "replace at next overhaul" only. Even if it does manage to slip through, there are ways to tackle it. Replacing the gear is close to $10-12K from most estimates we've heard from engine shops. I'm debating upping my HP with an IO550, so this may just cause me to do that earlier than planned. Won't like it, but I'm capable of doing that.

Now on the flip side, how many owners out there would be in a world of hurt if their engine grenades on the next flight? I'd venture a guess that it would be pretty high too.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Stets656 said:
Thanks, but no thanks. Not for me, lol
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Well you upped your limit to 200K. You'd be hard pressed to find 175 KTAS on 200 hp, 1000 mile range and a +12/-7 G, corrosion free airframe for anywhere near the price of this Velocity. Not to mention your maint costs will be half of an equivalent production aircraft.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well you upped your limit to 200K. You'd be hard pressed to find 175 KTAS on 200 hp, 1000 mile range and a +12/-7 G, corrosion free airframe for anywhere near the price of this Velocity. Not to mention your maint costs will be half of an equivalent production aircraft.
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If you didn't build it, then you still need an IA sign-off to do any work on it, correct?
 
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