Private checkride went horribly wrong!

P

pflemming

Guest
Well, I didn't even get to the practical portion! The DPE failed me on the oral. :eek: I had a bad initial interaction with him, and just knew it was going to go south (which it did). I recorded the oral and that also riled him up. Probably a bad move! But in retrospect, I have proof he was overall harsh on me. Do I have any recourse? Or just suck it up, and retest with a different DPE? Any advice would be great.
 
Can't give you ANY reasonable advice without knowing what you were failed for. If you didn't know something critical, you're SOL. If you tripped a "special emphasis area," you're SOL. If you failed because of your attitude, that's not the smartest move but it's not a legit reason to fail on its own.

Yes, recording the exam over the examiner's objections was a dumb thing to do.

And be careful about calling the examiner "harsh." It is his JOB to find the boundary of your knowledge. If you try to BS your way through the exam, it is entirely legit for him to probe that.
 
Last edited:
Move on.

Maybe file an NASA ASRS (even though that is not entirely appropriate/applicable) just so there is a record somewhere.

If it happens again, ask yourself, "what do all my failed relationships have in common?"

Peace, out.
 
Overall harsh? How? Did he ask you questions that you didn't know the answers to? Should you have known the answers to his questions?

What recourse do you want? Take the oral over again? You have to do that anyway.
 
pflemming said:
Well, I didn't even get to the practical portion! The DPE failed me on the oral. :eek: I had a bad initial interaction with him, and just knew it was going to go south (which it did). I recorded the oral and that also riled him up. Probably a bad move! But in retrospect, I have proof he was overall harsh on me. Do I have any recourse? Or just suck it up, and retest with a different DPE? Any advice would be great.
Click to expand...


Put the recorder away, and listen to the DPE. Usually, in most cases, they use it as a teaching opportunity, not an opportunity to fail someone.

I would have failed you for asking to record it, after I took it away and threw it. :mad2:
 
Can you share a little more about what he failed you on and why you felt he was harsh?
 
Best buddy failed his oral, went back and passed the whole thing with flying colors. Move on and get it done.
 
FWIW I would expect most DPEs would be rather suspicious of someone wanting to record the oral. They're going to give you the hardest oral you could receive at that point so that they're never accused of letting you pass illegitimately based on the audio.
 
Why would you want to record it ?
 
I went into my oral thinking I was ace it. Turned out the examiner knew just the stuff I was weak on. I still passed, but was not happy with my performance. Did fine on the checkride.

Recording any part of a test will absolutely guarantee that the examiner will A) not omit a single item required by the FAA and b) not cut you a bit of slack. Bad move.
 
Add me to the list of those who thinks recording the oral was a bad idea. IMO if there was going to be any leeway taken it would have been in your favor.
 
+12, bad idea

btw, what was your bad initial interaction?
 
I have the strangest feeling we're being trolled my Mr. P.F. Lemming.
His one and only post to this forum though it bears an odd resemblance to pj500.
 
Last edited:
pflemming said:
Well, I didn't even get to the practical portion! The DPE failed me on the oral. :eek: I had a bad initial interaction with him, and just knew it was going to go south (which it did). I recorded the oral and that also riled him up. Probably a bad move! But in retrospect, I have proof he was overall harsh on me. Do I have any recourse? Or just suck it up, and retest with a different DPE? Any advice would be great.
Click to expand...

Upload the recording for our comments.
 
On the "recording was a bad idea" note, I'll add that what does the examiner naturally assume you're going to do with that recording? Send it to your friends who have their checkride with him next week, of course. That way they already "know" exactly what questions he'll ask, what the right answers are, areas he focuses on, etc. So, if I was the DPE and you brought in a recorder, then to assure the validity of future exams, I'd feel obliged to ask questions on just about every topic in the book, to make sure the next applicant doesn't skimp on studying. Don't worry about scheduling the plane, we probably wouldn't be flying until tomorrow anyway, this oral's gonna take a while.
 
How do you get off to a bad "initial interaction" with the DPE? This should be one of the most fun days of your life, in all seriousness, and you were able to f*gg it up from the get-go?

And the recording thing is just bizarre.

You deserve to have failed for poor judgement.
 
pflemming said:
Well, I didn't even get to the practical portion! The DPE failed me on the oral. :eek: I had a bad initial interaction with him, and just knew it was going to go south (which it did). I recorded the oral and that also riled him up. Probably a bad move! But in retrospect, I have proof he was overall harsh on me. Do I have any recourse? Or just suck it up, and retest with a different DPE? Any advice would be great.
Click to expand...

My advice? Go into comedy.
 
Sorry, yes, should have introduced myself. I've been on and off taking flying lessons for a couple of years. Honestly, with job and family, I don't have a lot of time and have to time it out from an expense point of view. I wrote my written almost two years ago, and got into an argument with the examiner over that as well. He wanted to know if I'd reviewed any recent tests, and I said what for? :dunno: I passed didn't I? :mad2: Yes, bonehead move, should not have argued with him.

Yeah, I know I messed up doing the recording. Let me back up a little here. I was extremely nervous going into this, and my CFI told me to treat it like a learning exercise and to relax. Worst case, was I would fail it, learn from my mistakes then do it again. I mean, I was a mess. I wanted to have a record, just for my own learning purposes. It wasn't meant to be anything more than that. Obviously I'm not going to post it on youtube or anything like that. Not trying to get anyone in trouble. The examiner totally took it the wrong way, and then from some of his comments it kind of just changed the whole tone to the point I wanted it on record. I should have just terminated it and taken my money back. He was really bent out of shape over the recording thing.

I messed on some of the questions. I will admit that. But he was so aggressive. I could tell he wanted to fail me right from the beginning. Don't they have to fail a certain number of applicants? It looks bad if they pass everyone? I just think he should not have charged me $400 cash for the privilege of a 20 minute grilling and humiliation session. If he had a problem with me or the camera, he should have asked me to leave, not take my cash and string me along then terminate it so badly. He said I don't strike him as a safe pilot? How can he say that without even flying with me? Something is not right here. He summed me up the second he saw me, I'm convinced. He insisted on cash. Is that typical? I'm realiziing now I've got absolutely no proof I paid him anything. I should be reimbursed at least a majority of that payment. Isn't a typical checkride 4 hours?
 
pflemming said:
Sorry, yes, should have introduced myself. I've been on and off taking flying lessons for a couple of years. Honestly, with job and family, I don't have a lot of time and have to time it out from an expense point of view. I wrote my written almost two years ago, and got into an argument with the examiner over that as well. He wanted to know if I'd reviewed any recent tests, and I said what for? :dunno: I passed didn't I? :mad2: Yes, bonehead move, should not have argued with him.

Yeah, I know I messed up doing the recording. Let me back up a little here. I was extremely nervous going into this, and my CFI told me to treat it like a learning exercise and to relax. Worst case, was I would fail it, learn from my mistakes then do it again. I mean, I was a mess. I wanted to have a record, just for my own learning purposes. It wasn't meant to be anything more than that. Obviously I'm not going to post it on youtube or anything like that. Not trying to get anyone in trouble. The examiner totally took it the wrong way, and then from some of his comments it kind of just changed the whole tone to the point I wanted it on record. I should have just terminated it and taken my money back. He was really bent out of shape over the recording thing.

I messed on some of the questions. I will admit that. But he was so aggressive. I could tell he wanted to fail me right from the beginning. Don't they have to fail a certain number of applicants? It looks bad if they pass everyone? I just think he should not have charged me $400 cash for the privilege of a 20 minute grilling and humiliation session. If he had a problem with me or the camera, he should have asked me to leave, not take my cash and string me along then terminate it so badly. He said I don't strike him as a safe pilot? How can he say that without even flying with me? Something is not right here. He summed me up the second he saw me, I'm convinced. He insisted on cash. Is that typical? I'm realiziing now I've got absolutely no proof I paid him anything. I should be reimbursed at least a majority of that payment. Isn't a typical checkride 4 hours?
Click to expand...

Typical 2-2.5 hrs, 1-1.5 oral, 1-1.5 in the plane. You have a "pink slip" from the affair which will be proof enough to the FSDO should you want to file a complaint with them.

However given your attitude reflected in the "why should I, I passed" remark to having reviewed or studied information from 2 years ago does not leave me in disagreement with the DE about your potential safety as a pilot. Flying ability is 20% of safety.
 
Last edited:
flyingron said:
I have the strangest feeling we're being trolled my Mr. P.F. Lemming.
His one and only post to this forum though it bears an odd resemblance to pj500.
Click to expand...

Mr Flyin' Gron, pleased to meet you. Mr Flemming at your service. My friends call me Pete. My mother calls me Peter.
 
I detect some really problematic attitudes from these posts.

"I said what for? :dunno: I passed didn't I"

Are you kidding? You REALLY said that? I'm not surprised you got pink slipped.
 
MAKG1 said:
I detect some really problematic attitudes from these posts.

"I said what for? :dunno: I passed didn't I"

Are you kidding? You REALLY said that? I'm not surprised you got pink slipped.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that right there wrapped 3 or 4 hazardous attitudes into one statement. Pretty much displayed them all before they got started.
 
My DPE charged $150 for the oral and $150 for the flight portion. I would think you could probably get your $200 back at least since you never started the flight portion. As for the oral money, once it starts, too bad. He had to show up to the airport and deal with some paperwork, so he's entitled to that $200. Ultimately, I had to use 2 DPE's, so I ended up only paying my first DPE the $150 for the oral and the second one $150 for the flight portion (I had to change locations, and my first test was postponed due to weather).
 
You STILL haven't posted what you failed on. Just that the checkride was harsh. I believe the DPE has to be more specific on the pink slip and that "didn't like applicant" is not a valid reason.
 
Fail the oral in 20 minutes? Surely this has got to be some kind of a record?
 
mtuomi said:
Fail the oral in 20 minutes? Surely this has got to be some kind of a record?
Click to expand...

I think he failed it before it started, the DE just needed to validate the failure since it was being recorded.
 
Hope OP's instructor wasn't there when he said that comment about the written exam pass. He would've screamed...
 
The OP has no reason to expect any refund whatsoever. You pay for the exam slot, not the outcome.

I think he's a troll, but if not, don't be a dumbass next time you show for your check ride.
 
I messed up my cross country flight plan, I had the wrong initial altitude for the direction of flight for the first leg. He said you need to choose the correct altitude based on the initial leg, even though the altitude was correct for the remaining legs. I mean please. I couldn't even climb to my initial altitude anyway before the first way point. Then we had an ongoing fight about retarded paper charts vs iPad's. The old geezer needs to move into the 21st century. And, no, I didn't have this attitude during the exam but right now I'm mad as hell. What kind of idiot uses pencil and paper these days to figure out a crappy inaccurate flight plan, when there are wonderful tools to do all that now?

And his fly was down when he first came in, and I pointed that out. I was doing him a favor. If the prick got all ****y about that, then HE is the one with a problem!
 
Henning said:
I think he failed it before it started, the DE just needed to validate the failure since it was being recorded.
Click to expand...

Yes, THANK YOU, that is exactly what happened. He failed me right up front, and then just needed a reason.
 
This can't be real, can it?

So you argued with your DPE about everything? My DPE doesn't like iPads and I hate paper charts but considering I've taken 3 checkrides with him and one with the FSDO I think it's something that (post PPL level) can be agreed upon either way. Jesus Christ dude. If you were my student with that attitude I wouldn't sign you off to solo, much less for a checkride.
 
Brad Z said:
The OP has no reason to expect any refund whatsoever. You pay for the exam slot, not the outcome.

I think he's a troll, but if not, don't be a dumbass next time you show for your check ride.
Click to expand...

I don't agree, I pay for his time to examine me properly. You even say yourself, I pay for the EXAM SLOT. That slot is 2-4 hours. He should have let me fly.
 
pflemming said:
I don't agree, I pay for his time to examine me properly. You even say yourself, I pay for the EXAM SLOT. That slot is 2-4 hours. He should have let me fly.
Click to expand...

If you don't pass the oral you don't fly. Period. No exceptions. Go complain to the dozens of CFI applicants that fail at hour 6 of 7 on the oral and don't get to fly.
 
pflemming said:
I messed up my cross country flight plan, I had the wrong initial altitude for the direction of flight for the first leg. He said you need to choose the correct altitude based on the initial leg, even though the altitude was correct for the remaining legs. I mean please. I couldn't even climb to my initial altitude anyway before the first way point. Then we had an ongoing fight about retarded paper charts vs iPad's. The old geezer needs to move into the 21st century. And, no, I didn't have this attitude during the exam but right now I'm mad as hell. What kind of idiot uses pencil and paper these days to figure out a crappy inaccurate flight plan, when there are wonderful tools to do all that now?

And his fly was down when he first came in, and I pointed that out. I was doing him a favor. If the prick got all ****y about that, then HE is the one with a problem!
Click to expand...

So: First you show your ignorance by asking why should you restudy stuff from your written, then you show you really should have since you planned for wrong altitude, your first checkpoint wasn't very well planned, you argued with your DPE about iPads, and then you wonder why he failed you?
Like, really?
 
pflemming said:
I messed up my cross country flight plan, I had the wrong initial altitude for the direction of flight for the first leg. He said you need to choose the correct altitude based on the initial leg, even though the altitude was correct for the remaining legs. I mean please. I couldn't even climb to my initial altitude anyway before the first way point. Then we had an ongoing fight about retarded paper charts vs iPad's. The old geezer needs to move into the 21st century. And, no, I didn't have this attitude during the exam but right now I'm mad as hell. What kind of idiot uses pencil and paper these days to figure out a crappy inaccurate flight plan, when there are wonderful tools to do all that now?

And his fly was down when he first came in, and I pointed that out. I was doing him a favor. If the prick got all ****y about that, then HE is the one with a problem!
Click to expand...

Nope, he has no problem, he has his licenses and your $400, all you have is a bunch of **** poor attitude and lazy habits before you have the experience to know how to be lazy. Flying is all about details and knowledge and cross checking information. You demonstrated that you don't care about any of that, yet you feel wronged. I'm finding myself more and more in agreement with your DE, you have a bad attitude for being PIC.
 
Z06_Mir said:
This can't be real, can it?

If you were my student with that attitude I wouldn't sign you off to solo, much less for a checkride.
Click to expand...

If I were your student, sweetie, I wouldn't want you to sign me off to solo either.

Just kidding. Okay, I know, stop rubbing it in, I messed up. I do that when I get nervous. My point though is shouldn't he have given me the respect of giving me a proper test? I can actually fly. I do actually know my stuff. I'm not perfect, it is true, but this was grossly unfair what happened.
 
pflemming said:
My point though is shouldn't he have given me the respect of giving me a proper test? I can actually fly. I do actually know my stuff. I'm not perfect, it is true, but this was grossly unfair what happened.
Click to expand...

Hell No.
If you fail your oral, there will be no flying before you take a retest and pass it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top