Primer on used exp purchases

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
I need instruction on how used exp a/c can be registered. And any associated gotchas or info.

Obviously, used flying models are sold/bought, and flown by the new owner. Is transferring the ownership exactly the same as for certified a/c?
And, once purchased, did I catch that the new owner, because he is not the manufacturer of the a/c, has restrictions on maintenance? (I am a non-IA A+P, what could I not do?)

On the other extreme, I could buy an unstarted kit either from a manufacturer or someone who bought from the mfg'er. I could construct/assemble the kit and there is a process of faa oversight during this process, culminating in registration of the homebuilt kit.
Anything I missed there? I have to be materially involved at each stage and physically complete 51% myself, I think?

Now, how about a partially completed kit? How would registration go following purchase of such a kit?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I need instruction on how used exp a/c can be registered. And any associated gotchas or info.

Obviously, used flying models are sold/bought, and flown by the new owner. Is transferring the ownership exactly the same as for certified a/c?
And, once purchased, did I catch that the new owner, because he is not the manufacturer of the a/c, has restrictions on maintenance? (I am a non-IA A+P, what could I not do?)

On the other extreme, I could buy an unstarted kit either from a manufacturer or someone who bought from the mfg'er. I could construct/assemble the kit and there is a process of faa oversight during this process, culminating in registration of the homebuilt kit.
Anything I missed there? I have to be materially involved at each stage and physically complete 51% myself, I think?

Now, how about a partially completed kit? How would registration go following purchase of such a kit?
Click to expand...
When it has an N number it is treated just like any other aircraft.
The first person to gain an airwothiness certificate, registration, and N number is the manufacturer.
The common belief is that the builder must do 51% of the build, this is not true, 51% of the aircraft must be built by amateur builders. not necessarily the owner builder.
You can buy a partially built kit, with simply a bill of sale transferring the ownership of the kit to you. then finish and register it with the FAA. that's legal.
 
Tom-D said:
You can buy a partially built kit, with simply a bill of sale transferring the ownership of the kit to you. then finish and register it with the FAA. that's legal.
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Thanks Tom - what is the inspection process? The inspector has to come at certain stages?
My concern would be to buy an unfinished exp project, only to find out none of the inspections were done; is that a worry?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Thanks Tom - what is the inspection process? The inspector has to come at certain stages?
My concern would be to buy an unfinished exp project, only to find out none of the inspections were done; is that a worry?
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only one inspection required at the end of the build, to issue the AWC and letter of limitations

I'd suggest you join EAA and get the questions answered there.
and join a the local EAA Chapter lots of friendly help

Why are you thinking about building?
 
The registration of a kit is a separate process from the airworthiness certification process and must be completed before applying for the AWC. The change of registration from owner to owner of an already flying E-AB aircraft is exactly the same as for any aircraft and gas nothing to do with its certification category.

As for maintenance of an already flying E-AB aircraft, anyone can do any maintenance on the plane. The only thing you cannot do is sign off on the annual condition inspection--for that you'll need an A&P (no IA required) or the holder of that airframe's repairman certificate (that would be a long shot at best).
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Pretty good find. Specs say 190kts, think its more like 170kts?
The model that has my interest right now is the Questair Venture 220-240kts and they are pretty rare to find completed, ready to sell. More uncompleted kits than flyable ones.
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Uncommon airplanes don't scare me, but I'd be pretty hesitant to buy an experimental with very few flying examples. What about something a little more common like a Glassair?
 
Speed costs money, 100k doesn't buy much.
 
Tom-D said:
The DARs really don't care.
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Very true.

Now when it comes to getting your repairman's cert, that's a completely different story. You'll be at the mercy of whatever FSDO you go to. And then, whichever person you'll be dealing with.

One builder I know said it was in and out. No more difficult than a buying a six-pack of beer.

I, however, had someone who felt the need to count (literally) the number of pictures in my build log which had me in it factored against the total number of pictures. Had to get two other people to come in and investigate this travesty.
 
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donjohnston said:
Very true.

Now when it comes to getting your repairman's cert, that's a completely different story. You'll be at the mercy of whatever FSDO you go to. And then, whichever person you'll be dealing with.

One builder I know said it was in and out. No more difficult than a buying a six-pack of beer.

I, however, had someone who felt the need to count (literally) the number of pictures in my build log which had me in it factored against the total number of pictures. Had to get two other people to come in and investigate this travesty.
Click to expand...

My experience was kind of in between. My FSDO inspector didn't look at my build log at all. Even though he wasn't the same inspector who did my AWC, he knew I had built the plane. Consequently 99% of the questions he grilled me on over a little more than an hour session were engine related.
 
I truly doubt you will get a venture for any where near 100k. But the person you need to talk with is grum.man he has a nice questair and knows them well.

Bob
 
unsafervguy said:
I truly doubt you will get a venture for any where near 100k. But the person you need to talk with is grum.man he has a nice questair and knows them well. Bob
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Completely agree. Maybe 150, but tricked out ones could be 250, not sure. I need to research the market better but there are so few available (none now) that it is going to be historical or opinion only.
Only hope I have is a partially finished kit or maybe a distress sale.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Pretty good find. Specs say 190kts, think its more like 170kts?
The model that has my interest right now is the Questair Venture 220-240kts and they are pretty rare to find completed, ready to sell. More uncompleted kits than flyable ones.
Click to expand...
islandaero.com. 75K. Don't know if it's still around
 
tsts4 said:
My experience was kind of in between. My FSDO inspector didn't look at my build log at all. Even though he wasn't the same inspector who did my AWC, he knew I had built the plane. Consequently 99% of the questions he grilled me on over a little more than an hour session were engine related.
Click to expand...

And that's the thing. I didn't get a single question on the actual construction. Not one. The ONLY thing this guy was interested in where pictures. Specifically, the number of pic's with me in the picture.

I asked one of the other inspectors as I was leaving how many pictures they wanted so I could let other builders know and she told me that she never looks at the pictures. She randomly flips to pages in the log and asks the builder to explain the construction in this section. She said that after getting the explanation of a couple of sections that she will know if the builder knows what they're doing.

Oh yeah, and the inspector also screwed up the paperwork. After not receiving my repairman's cert within 90 days (time for annual), I called and found out about the screwup. He sent me another temp cert.
 
Another find, probably nothing. The aircraft was deregistered, they probably let the registration lapse.
I suppose its a paperwork matter all of which can be overcome with money and angst.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Another find, probably nothing. The aircraft was deregistered, they probably let the registration lapse.
I suppose its a paperwork matter all of which can be overcome with money and angst.
Click to expand...

Don't count on it. If it was deregistered and done correctly by filing the correct paper work. You may have to have this airplane inspected by a DAR and then go back through the 40 hr phase one testing. I have been down this road. I was lucky and the correct paper work as not filed. The FAA caught the mistake and corrected it by contacting the owner, that would be me. I made a bone head move on registration forum 8050-2 and almost destroyed my newly purchased airplane. The FAA caught the mistake. Thumps up to the FAA.

When I spoke with the FAA they told me if this was not caught the airplane would have had to been reinspected and then go back into phase one testing.

Tony
 
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