Prebuy next 2 days - help me with cold feet

455 Bravo Uniform

455 Bravo Uniform

Final Approach
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455 Bravo Uniform
Am I really doing this?
What, am I crazy?
Will I fly it enough, more than 50, 100 hrs/yr?
It definitely is cheaper to rent.

But the pluses outweigh the minuses (been through my pros/cons list and spreadsheets). And I can always get most of my money out if it ended up being a mistake. And the money and time I don't get back is the cost of fun and education that I'm willing to pay.

Anyone ever get cold feet before the big purchase? I've done this with homes, cars, and investment real-estate...close to backing out, but pulled the trigger and was the best thing ever.

But dang, a friggen plane? WTF is wrong with me?

And none of this needs an answer, it's just so you can laugh at me, or make me feel good or bad.
 
Simple question. Can you afford it?

If so, my advice? Ya only live once.

Whatcha buying?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Don't get ahead of yourself, still hasn't passed prebuy.

Enjoy the journey
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Anyone ever get cold feet before the big purchase?
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Definitely. I was only buying 1/3 of the LLC and it took me from a December Christmas party until May to sign the paperwork. LOL.

Now that I've done it, I doubt I'll ever be without an owned aircraft ever again barring complete bankruptcy. ;)

There is literally nothing like going to the airport, pulling the keys to the airplane and hangar out of your pocket, and flying... as easy as pulling out your car keys to drive there. It's surreal.

Edit: Fixed bad quoting.
 
gsengle said:
Simple question. Can you afford it?
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I too had cold feet when I bought my 182 a year ago. When we went over & took delivery my wife said " you look so serious, lighten up". I told her buying the airplane was exciting but when we took the cash out of the bank to pay the seller I wasn't too smiley.

After one year of ownership our finances haven't even noticed it.
 
Spoken like a true (almost there) aircraft owner.:cool:

See. You're pouring money into the plane already. And you don't even own it. :D
Yet.

Hope the pre-purchase inspection goes well, but there's always other airplanes out there just in case.

Just one question...are you ready for the abuse and stigma that comes from not buying a Bo? It's not too late to repent. ;)
 
heated-socks_B.jpg
 
So, let me just say - for the most part - your normal (about buying a plane) :)

Yes, it's normal to get cold feet - the purchase is the cheap/easy part. Once you buy you are committed and have the joys of MX etc. But, you can also make sure your due diligence is thorough. Finish your pre-buy and be ok to walk away - or negotiate changes. For me - my pre-buy was my sounding board - I didn't have any experience buying a plane, I didn't have any close friends who had purchased several planes. My pre-buy was trying to help me overcome ignorance, limit my exposure, remove emotion and logic and add experience - to help me make a hopefully good decision. Years later, I am very happy with my choice and have not regretted it. But everyone is in a difference space and place in their life and you have to make the right choices for you.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out

Dean
 
Your daddy would tell if if it flys, floats or Fks, you are better off renting.
 
There is no justification other than self-indulgence for owning an aircraft. They are a pure luxury item. The plane will be a cost hit and then eat away at your wallet for the entire time you own until you finally sell one day and take a loss. Every other "reason' you try to come with is an excuse.

And don't be tempted to try to get taxpayers to subsidize your hobby. The IRS has seen it all too.
 
citizen5000 said:
There is no justification other than self-indulgence for owning an aircraft. They are a pure luxury item. The plane will be a cost hit and then eat away at your wallet for the entire time you own until you finally sell one day and take a loss. Every other "reason' you try to come with is an excuse.

And don't be tempted to try to get taxpayers to subsidize your hobby. The IRS has seen it all too.
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Is this based on your experience owning an airplane... Are you even a pilot?

Without airplanes the Iditarod dog race wouldn't be possible. In Alaska planes are NOT luxury items, they are primary modes of transportation. Anyway, in the lower 48 they still have uses other than "luxury items" what if the OP is buying it to train in? Or what if they're buying a 12k 152? Not exactly a luxury item. Plenty of people use their airplanes to commute to work or start businesses.

Having a passion and a love for flying isn't an excuse to buy a plane. It's a reason.

Even if they ARE buying a top of the line cirrus... Who are you to dictate how people spend their own money

EDIT: I guess I shouldn't feed the troll.
 
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citizen5000 said:
There is no justification other than self-indulgence for owning an aircraft. They are a pure luxury item. The plane will be a cost hit and then eat away at your wallet for the entire time you own until you finally sell one day and take a loss. Every other "reason' you try to come with is an excuse.

And don't be tempted to try to get taxpayers to subsidize your hobby. The IRS has seen it all too.
Click to expand...

There are many reasons for planes and aviation.
However, I will fall squarely into this category if/when I buy.

I have and had other hobbies too...and own my own gear. Scuba diving, golfing, canoeing, kayaking, etc. etc... used to own a boat.
It hurts me to rent no matter what the numbers say.
None of those other items carry the regulation, nor the expense of an airplane though. So it'll be a loooong thought process before pulling the trigger.
But still, I can't wait! ha ha
 
denverpilot said:
.........................There is literally nothing like going to the airport, pulling the keys to the airplane and hangar out of your pocket, and flying... as easy as pulling out your car keys to drive there. It's surreal.

Edit: Fixed bad quoting.
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Amen. Gawd I miss it
 
Do you have the money to buy it? Are you likely to have the money to fly it?
 
Do it! Before I bought mine was was a little nervous too. Good call on the pre-buy... remember you don't have to buy it, so if something doesn't feel right after that, you're not committed.

That said, it's awesome. You can leave your crap in the plane. Use it whenever you want (assuming it's not in Mx). You'll fly more I think simply because you can.

Even if it's a biz expense, it's still a luxury. But life is short man. Be happy.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Do you have the money to buy it? Are you likely to have the money to fly it?
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a lot of us looking at buying ask ourselves this and the OP's questions.
It's hard to say yes when we don't know what's in store. Probably why there is several threads about "cost" of owning.
After all my calculations, a good fat round number is about $1000 a month....at 100hrs per year.
That doesn't include upgrades of choice, but has a little padding. Probably way less than I think lol.
 
Skyrys62 said:
a lot of us looking at buying ask ourselves this and the OP's questions.
It's hard to say yes when we don't know what's in store. Probably why there is several threads about "cost" of owning.
After all my calculations, a good fat round number is about $1000 a month....at 100hrs per year.
That doesn't include upgrades of choice, but has a little padding. Probably way less than I think lol.
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Depends on what you are flying. 1k a month including hours of fuel is plenty doable with a 182P as long as your hanger isn't $350+ a month.

We have a 182P. We hadn't spent much of anything on the plane the last four months until our AI went out a week ago. Costs come in fits and spurts.
 
That figure is based on the most common of the planes I've looked at. 172's, Piper 140/180, etc.
There's so many intricate details per person/plane/situation that it's impossible to pinpoint.

But I assume 200 mo for hangar, which gets me a pretty nice one here. Full service pull-out, put-away with a wipe down. Not heated, but free electricity and lighting.
I didn't, but could deduct from that figure by accounting for other usage such as storage.
I can only imagine how many millions of justifications have been designed around plane ownership lol.
That would be a fun thread... Name your justification!

To the OP- Loved this:
-the money and time I don't get back is the cost of fun and education that I'm willing to pay.
-none of this needs an answer

Congrats on your decision, and fly safe.
 
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If you have to worry about the money you can't do it. If you've got the bucks to spare, go for it. if I only fly 30 minutes a week, month, year it's mine and waiting for me any time I want it.
 
My recommendation is to go for it. My wife and I are on our second airplane. I am sooo glad we decided to buy. With an airplane like the one you are contemplating, you can always find a buyer if you decide you aren't flying it enough. Just don't let it sit on a ramp somewhere and rot like some of the aircraft in the other thread.
 
I'm in the minority here... but if I had to do it again, I wouldn't. But I had a bad experience. So YMMV.
 
Enjoying the thread. Thanks y'all.

Like they say, don't ask the inmates in the insane asylum if you're crazy.

Early inspection report is positive, no show stoppers so far. Going to see the plane in person tomorrow.
 
Long story short... uneventful prebuy... 15,000 annual on a 36,000 dollar plane. Brutal. Broo. Tal. My experience is not usual. Prebuy guy was decent, but he didn't tear the engine down to get behind the exhaust valves. Wouldn't have caught the three cylinders I had to replace.
 
By the time you're buying your third plane it'll be a lot less scary.

You gotta start somewhere.

Good luck,
Larry
 
The number one reason to own a plane? You can take it places. No one cares when you get back. This profoundly changes your flying....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
citizen5000 said:
There is no justification other than self-indulgence for owning an aircraft. They are a pure luxury item. The plane will be a cost hit and then eat away at your wallet for the entire time you own until you finally sell one day and take a loss. Every other "reason' you try to come with is an excuse.

And don't be tempted to try to get taxpayers to subsidize your hobby. The IRS has seen it all too.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

There is no justification other than self indulgence for eating in a restaurant when you can cook your own meals.
There is no justification other than self indulgence owning a car bigger than a Smart-4-Two since it's just transportation.
There is no justification other than self indulgence owning a good suit when a pair of old jeans and a tee shirt can clothe you just fine.
And there's certainly no justification other than self indulgence owning anything more than a one bedroom house since you can only sleep in one place at night anyway.
 
gsengle said:
The number one reason to own a plane? You can take it places. No one cares when you get back. This profoundly changes your flying....
Click to expand...

I usually let mine take me places, but if you've got a big enough flatbed trailer... I suppose the airplane might like a trip to Walmart once in a while. ;)
 
On the "...no justification other than self indulgence...", it's all perspective, right?

To take it even further, jeans and tshirt are a luxury; being nekid is free. A roof is a luxury. The food we eat is a luxury.

Has anyone ever been to Haiti or Honduras and spent any number of days in the poorest areas? You realize that even the water in the toilet that we crap in and flush is a luxury...something that someone else is dying from not being able to get (no water, not safe, struggle/dangerous to get?).

I'm not worried about the money or being unable to pay/afford. Ive been blessed by the country I was born in, the parents I was born to, and everything that's happened to me or I've been able to accomplish. I've felt like I've been frugal all my life. Don't hardly ever buy things for myself. I want to be a good steward of my money. All that to say again, "what am I nuts? Buying a plane?!"

Being honest - I struggle with Luke 12:33. After a life changing event in 2003 and 36 years old, I "discovered" Christ. The next breath you and I take is a luxury; for others it seems a curse and they can't wait for it to be their last. It's all perspective.

Going to drive to Dodge City this morning to participate in the prebuy and see if this thing is worth it. Gulp. But excitement is building.
 
gsengle said:
The number one reason to own a plane? You can take it places. No one cares when you get back. This profoundly changes your flying....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This right here. I'm a newly certificated pilot and current renter. I can't tell you how many times just in a month I have wanted to fly somewhere but can't get a plane, or feel bad about taking the schools plane for a day on a weekend. An overnight trip? Forget about it...
 
citizen5000 said:
There is no justification other than self-indulgence for owning an aircraft. They are a pure luxury item. The plane will be a cost hit and then eat away at your wallet for the entire time you own until you finally sell one day and take a loss. Every other "reason' you try to come with is an excuse.

And don't be tempted to try to get taxpayers to subsidize your hobby. The IRS has seen it all too.
Click to expand...

I look at owning a airplane totally different than you. To me a airplane is a very fun savings account. Airplanes gain value, not loose unless you buy total junk. I buy a plane I really like, fly it for a year to get time in something different and put it on the market with a really high price tag. I never care if I sell them or not because I like and enjoy the planes I buy. Someone always comes along with some cash. I have made a very hefty profit on each plane I have sold. Right now I own 4 planes and they are all keepers but for the right money everything is for sale. I don't know anything else out there I can buy, enjoy the hell out of and make a profit... Cars, motorcycles, boats and any other motorsport will loose value. Not a airplane. Its better to have money invested in planes than sitting in the bank. I am all about buying unique stuff. Antique, biplanes and aerobatic planes are what do it for me.
 
pigpenracing said:
I look at owning a airplane totally different than you. To me a airplane is a very fun savings account. Airplanes gain value, not loose unless you buy total junk. I buy a plane I really like, fly it for a year to get time in something different and put it on the market with a really high price tag. I never care if I sell them or not because I like and enjoy the planes I buy. Someone always comes along with some cash. I have made a very hefty profit on each plane I have sold. Right now I own 4 planes and they are all keepers but for the right money everything is for sale. I don't know anything else out there I can buy, enjoy the hell out of and make a profit... Cars, motorcycles, boats and any other motorsport will loose value. Not a airplane. Its better to have money invested in planes than sitting in the bank. I am all about buying unique stuff. Antique, biplanes and aerobatic planes are what do it for me.
Click to expand...

Afraid I have to disagree with everything you just said. Airplanes don't gain value and its the worst idea ever to use them as investments. If anything, they may RETAIN their value. However, that's only IF you are diligent with maintenance and happen to buy a model that is popular. Buy a $100K plane and don't maintain or fly it and watch it turn into a $20K pile of barely usable garbage over time.

The only way aircraft go up in value is if you add something to them that makes that plane different then every other plane out there with the same make/model. And usually the value increase is not even close to the amount invested to do the upgrade.

The really crazy people will put 14K worth of upgrades in a plane and try to sell it for 14K more. No chance.

Expect to lose money on a plane, they are not an investment, they are either a tool or a toy.
 
In general, old wise pilots told me to have 10% of the original purchase price available for the 1st couple of annuals, as you will inevitably have to correct things the DPO let go.
 
Bill Jennings said:
In general, old wise pilots told me to have 10% of the original purchase price available for the 1st couple of annuals, as you will inevitably have to correct things the DPO let go.
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Good advice. I have a spreadsheet I use for basic costing a plane for when I decide to buy again, IF I buy again.

In addition to what @Bill Jennings said about the annual, I budget about 15% of the cost of the plane annually for maintenance work in general. Such as equipment failures, inspections, and it helps add a little buffer for the inevitable overhaul.

And just because I want enough budget room, I even add money on top of ALL of that for incidentals. Like, a plane ticket home if you get stranded. Costs to rent a car when you travel, ramp fees, etc.

Based on the basic calculations I have, a 30K plane will end up costing you at least 5 times that cost over 10 years. Or 3 times as much over 5 years.
 
Caramon13 said:
Based on the basic calculations I have, a 30K plane will end up costing you at least 5 times that cost over 10 years. Or 3 times as much over 5 years.
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Oh hell, I don't *even* want to know what I've spent in 10 years of ownership. Not going there. Nope. :fingerwag::loco::lol:
 
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