Post-Gear-Up 709 Ride - what to expect?

SCCutler

SCCutler

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Spike Cutler
Not for me, this time...

I've an acquaintance who, for reasons we all might understand, had an inadvertent gear-up landing. No injuries, except to pride, panels, paint and prop, but the FAA wants a 709 ride with him, and Mr. FSDO is being cryptic about what all is to be covered.

Has anyone experience with this to offer? He has already booked time with an exceptional instructor to go over pretty much everything about how he flies, but if there is any gouge on particulars from others who have experienced this, it would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance for ANY advice or suggestions!

(Cross-posting to BT, as well)
 
Not first hand info, but I think Henning did a writeup about his. Bottom line is to not go into it with an attitude. I would think an hour with a CFI covering checklist usage, gear extension, both normal and emergency, and that would be the extent of it. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it.

Easy for me to say, huh?
 
Sorta what I expect, but I understand the nervousness - and this guy's very meticulous and thorough in everything he does, so he wants to ensure that he "gets it right."
 
Most of the guys I've had with 709 rides have found it a rather low key affair. You get to fly what you screwed up (essentially do some landings and be sure to put the gear down). Might get some questions about emergency extension procedures as well.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Bottom line is to not go into it with an attitude. I would think an hour with a CFI covering checklist usage, gear extension, both normal and emergency, and that would be the extent of it.
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I think demonstrating a compliance and safety attitude is one key to sailing through the 709 ride without turbulence. Greg's suggestion of spending an hour or so with the CFI prior to the ride is a good demonstration of the correct attitude. I would do that if I were in the 709 ride pilot's shoes...

-Skip
 
On "cryptic"

The emphasis on what is to be covered should be mentioned clearly in the 709 letter; often the very first paragraph. I have seen ones that are very detailed in terms of specific PTS tasks and others that are more general. But looking at the specific language is the starting point.

Typically, the 709 for a gear up landing involves (Duh) procedures used by the pilot to prompt and confirm lowering the gear.

As others already said, they tend to not be a big deal unless the pilot makes it one. And showing a logbook with a session or two with a CFI on the subject is a plus. "Compliant attitude" euphemisms aside it does show the pilot treated the issue seriously.
 
Always wondered what happens to a pilot who forgets the gear on that 709 ride.
(I bet it could happen if it hasn't yet.)
 
I think if I were giving the ride for that particular reason, my main concern would be discerning whether the pilot simply made a mistake or was tutto spostata. Assuming the former, I'd hope for some contrition and some evidence of a renewed respect for checklists on the pilot's part.

Of course, that's just a hunch.

Rich
 
SCCutler said:
Sorta what I expect, but I understand the nervousness - and this guy's very meticulous and thorough in everything he does, so he wants to ensure that he "gets it right."
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Except for this time, huh?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Bust airspace, ignore a controller and get into a loss of separation event will do it.

709's are on the decline as the new philosophy is to do retraining.
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..although I have seen some recently in place of what would otherwise have been formal enforcement action.

Of course, "recently" is still before the October 2015 start of "compliance action" implementation.
 
RotorAndWing said:
He fails.

Inspector gets reprimanded, and then he gets a 709 ride.
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I guess I meant: The inspector catches it and sends him around, they land ok.
What would they do with such a pilot besides a fail. They either have to offer a re-ride or suspend/revoke. Which is it?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
It wouldn't load. It's not that important, I'm sure it doesn't happen that often.
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Here ya go:

B. Airman’s Performance Unsatisfactory. The airman must be informed in detail of each deficiency. Additionally, if the airman’s certificate had been temporarily deposited at the field office and the temporary deposit term is nearing expiration, a decision must be made to suspend the certificate or to extend the temporary deposit period for another 30 days. If, in the opinion of the inspector, the airman could successfully complete another reexamination by obtaining additional instruction, every effort must be made to encourage the airman to do so.

Indicates new/changed information.
1) When the inspector decides to allow the airman additional time, the inspector takes the airman’s certificate for temporary deposit at the field office and issues a temporary certificate. The temporary certificate must have a limitation against carrying passengers and a 30-day expiration date. The airman has 30 days in which to practice or obtain additional dual instruction before being reexamined again.

2) If the inspector determines the airman is unable to establish qualification to hold the certificate or rating, legal enforcement action must be taken to revoke the airman’s certificate and/or ratings. (Refer to FAA Order 2150.3, Chapter 8.)
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Let'sgoflying! said:
Always wondered what happens to a pilot who forgets the gear on that 709 ride.

(I bet it could happen if it hasn't yet.)
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We had a guy lose the nosegear on a 182RG on a CFI ride here a year or so ago. Heh. He has a great photo of the 182 sitting in the middle of the runway with its tail feathers reaching for the sky.

Pretty entertaining considering some of the "horror stories" I've heard about multiple inspectors going over the MX logs of any aircraft used for FSDO rides.

Not too surprisingly it was quickly and quietly handled and the "story" disappeared pretty fast. Almost as quick as accidents and whole aircraft disappear quickly into a hangar at Oshkosh.

Timing affects the outcome of the rain dance as they say...
 
If you fail a 709, what happens? Revocation, suspension, additional training and then another 709 ride, or what?
 
denverpilot said:
We had a guy lose the nosegear on a 182RG on a CFI ride here a year or so ago. Heh. He has a great photo of the 182 sitting in the middle of the runway with its tail feathers reaching for the sky.

Pretty entertaining considering some of the "horror stories" I've heard about multiple inspectors going over the MX logs of any aircraft used for FSDO rides.

Not too surprisingly it was quickly and quietly handled and the "story" disappeared pretty fast. Almost as quick as accidents and whole aircraft disappear quickly into a hangar at Oshkosh.

Timing affects the outcome of the rain dance as they say...
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We have done mx on a fair share of aircraft that geared up. Normally the fsdo just comes out and watches a gear swing to see if the horn and lights work. I've seen airplanes gear up that had checkrides with the FAA scheduled and it was so different.

Here sometimes they bring a mx guy to a cfi checkride. Most of the time they don't though. Put fsdo is know. For being a kindler, gentler faa though.
 
bullwinkle said:
If you fail a 709, what happens? Revocation, suspension, additional training and then another 709 ride, or what?
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I believe the inspector takes your certificate and encourages you to get some instruction and try again.
 
bullwinkle said:
If you fail a 709, what happens? Revocation, suspension, additional training and then another 709 ride, or what?
Click to expand...

As indicated in R&W's post, the certificate itself and/or specific privileges may be revoked...I've seen something to the effect of "not valid for PIC privileges in conventional-gear aircraft" listed in the Limitatins section of a certificate after a 709 gone bad.

In this specific case, I guess a limitation against retractable gear aircraft would be possible,:dunno: but I think a "failure" would indicate more serious airmanship issues beyond just throwing the gear.
 
flyingron said:
I believe the inspector takes your certificate and encourages you to get some instruction and try again.
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That's more or less what happened in the case I'm familiar with. He had his first ride and didn't do so well and a week or so later he had some instruction and tried again and passed.
 
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