Politically Correct ?

[Tom-D]

Am I supposed to ask what religion, political affiliation, or national origin you are before I make my traditional holiday remark?

Life is too short to worry about this trivial shi-

 

[poadeleted20]

Here's a Jew who doesn't mind

Why should I be offended if someone says Merry Christmas ?

I'm not really offended, but I'm certainly reminded that the person who says it do me is insensitive enough to not realize that not everyone shares their faith, especially if they know I'm Jewish. For my part, I don't wish those I don't know are Jewish a shenah tovah on Rosh Hashonah or an easy fast on Yom Kippur, but I do appreciate my non-Jewish friends making an effort to express an appropriate sentiment at that time, and likewise their appropriate nonreligious holiday sentiments (after all, it is a US Federal holiday) this time of year.

 

[Tom-D]

I went to office depot yesterday to get a few things. At the check out, I said Merry Christmas. The lady at the register replied with "Happy Holidays".

You can't be in much of a holiday mood if that pizzes you off.

typical moral majority attitude, if you ain't like us you are bad.

 

[Henning]

Here's a Jew who doesn't mind

Why should I be offended if someone says Merry Christmas ?

So this is a great opportunity to wish you all a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND VERY HAPPY NEW YEAR!

That's really it isn't it? The person is giving a friendly salutation in good(at least not evil in the case of the clerk required to say something) nature, why should someone get ****ed off just because it doesn't apply to them, it's not like Christmas is the time of year that Christians go around killing Jews in the holiday tradition.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kawanzaa, whatever, the only thing that really matters is the intent, not the holiday.

 

[Mafoo]

I was born a Jew, and am a atheist. My holiday greeting to those I don't know, is "Merry Christmass". To my Jewish friends, it's "Happy hanukkah", and to anyone who says something to me first, I say whatever they say back to them.

It's just people enjoying a week of whatever makes them happy. Why screw it up with a political statement?

If I worked in a store, I would start with Happy Holidays. If they said "Merry Christmass" back, I would say "Merry Christmass to you too sir". I would not start with it, because even though it's stupid to get upset over a greeting meant to be cheerful, it's a place of business, and part of my job is not to upset anyone.

 

[roncachamp]

Why should I be offended if someone says Merry Christmas ?

You shouldn't, nor should anyone else. Yet there are those that passionately believe there are a significant number of people that are offended by it and move to squelch the expression.

 

[flyingron]

Sorry, speedy. I think you *ARE* out of line. You say Merry Christmas or whatever greeting to people not because you are trying to force a religious discourse, but to express your sentiments for the season. You do NOT get to dictate how others express their similar feelings in response. This is not an "attack" on Christmas or anything else, just common manners. Your behavior is right up there when someone says "Have a nice day" to stomp out saying "What's nice about it."

 

[Tom-D]

May all my POA friends have the best holidays ever, enjoy your families this time of year.

we will.

 

[Henning]

Sorry, speedy. I think you *ARE* out of line. You say Merry Christmas or whatever greeting to people not because you are trying to force a religious discourse, but to express your sentiments for the season. You do NOT get to dictate how others express their similar feelings in response. This is not an "attack" on Christmas or anything else, just common manners. Your behavior is right up there when someone says "Have a nice day" to stomp out saying "What's nice about it."

I see it the same. Speedy, you are basically violating the spirit of the 1st Ammendment. While that only governs the actions of government, it is meant to express the ideals of everyone in the nation. You are trying to force others to follow your beliefs. On other boards this thread would have been Godwinned about post 2 or 3 for your attitude of aggression and intolerance.

 

[wabower]

I think the biggest difference is that the different groups discuss whether they've been naughty or nice on different days of the year. Whether any atoning actually takes place at either time probably depends on the individuals involved. Nor do I know if those of the synogogue group are threatened with a lump of coal.

 

[Mafoo]

Sorry, speedy. I think you *ARE* out of line. You say Merry Christmas or whatever greeting to people not because you are trying to force a religious discourse, but to express your sentiments for the season. You do NOT get to dictate how others express their similar feelings in response. This is not an "attack" on Christmas or anything else, just common manners. Your behavior is right up there when someone says "Have a nice day" to stomp out saying "What's nice about it."

I would agree if the response was from someone actually hoping he had a good Quanza. If it was obvious he was patronizing him, then he had a right to be upset (especially after dropping $300 in the store).

 

[Henning]

I would agree if the response was from someone actually hoping he had a good Quanza. If it was obvious he was patronizing him, then he had a right to be upset (especially after dropping $300 in the store).

Drop $300 in any store and see if it's different. Since when is being upset a 'right'? It's typically a 'wrong' and useless under any circumstances. The only person being upset effected negatively in the entire scenario was the OP.

 

[LDJones]

You want to get ****ed off over a slight to a dead man whose mantra was "turn the other cheek". Jesus would roll in his grave.

Uh, he's no longer in the grave! If he was this wouldn't be an issue. :wink2:

 

[Mafoo]

Drop $300 in any store and see if it's different. Since when is being upset a 'right'? It's typically a 'wrong' and useless under any circumstances. The only person being upset effected negatively in the entire scenario was the OP.

So the store has a right to treat you any way they want, but you don't have a right to chose who you do business with based on how your treated?

I am not saying the store should get in trouble with the law, or that anyone broke one. They have every right to say anything they want.

If I worked in the store, I have a right to say "thanks for the business, now I hope you die in a car crash on the way home".

Offending someone should be legal, but reacting to it without infringing on anyones right should be as well, and that's all Speedy did.

 

[Henning]

So the store has a right to treat you any way they want, but you don't have a right to chose who you do business with based on how your treated?

I am not saying the store should get in trouble with the law, or that anyone broke one. They have every right to say anything they want.

If I worked in the store, I have a right to say "thanks for the business, now I hope you die in a car crash on the way home".

Offending someone should be legal, but reacting to it without infringing on anyones right should be as well, and that's all Speedy did.

Of course you have the right not to do business with them, no need in getting upset. Does getting upset ruin the other guy's day? No, just yours.

 

[Mafoo]

Of course you have the right not to do business with them, no need in getting upset. Does getting upset ruin the other guy's day? No, just yours.

So if you said "have a good day", and I said "**** off", you would not get upset, because it only hurts you?

 

[Pilawt]

I am of faith/group "A". I am approached by a person of faith/group "B" who, in all good intention and sincerity, extends the traditional holiday greeting of faith/group "B".

I have a number of choices as to how to respond.

1. I can respond with the holiday greeting of faith/group "A", and in so doing express to this person that I think that my faith is better than his, or at least more important to me than his is to him. After all, if I feel that he is trying to hurt me by his greeting, it's fair game for me to zing him with mine, right?

2. I can respond with "Happy Holidays," and in so doing express to him that in my presence he is not allowed to celebrate or in any way feel good about his faith. Instead, he must conform to the homogenous, colorless, modern practice that in its effort to be offensive to no one, is meaningless to everyone.

3. I can silently glare at him, because before either of us was born, in a place far away, unspeakable evil was done to my people in the name of Faith "B". Given half a chance, perhaps this person in his heart of hearts would want to do the same to me, if he cannot at least convert me to Faith "B". Even if he is sincere, though, he needs to be humiliated because of his failure to recognize, because of my name or appearance, that I am not of faith/group "B".

4. I can respond with a frivolous, pop-culture "greeting", because he needs to learn, right here and right now, that the faith that has given meaning, comfort and joy to him and his family for years, is worthy of nothing more than mockery.

-- or --

5. I can return the greeting in kind, with the sincere wish that the holiday he celebrates will be meaningful and joyous to him. If it is difficult and foreign for me to do so, then let that be my gift to him at this time of year. It cannot diminish me or my faith to do so, and it will surely brighten his day. It's a win-win, and the world is better for it.

Maybe this "tolerance" thing isn't so bad, after all.

 

[murphey]

I don't know that many Jews, but the five or six that I do know seem to be pretty good sports at Christmas time.

It's not that we're pretty good sports, but we don't have the option and for the most part, don't even care anymore. From Day 1 all thru school (unless you went to a Yeshiva) and our lives we're bombarded with Christianity to the exclusion of everything else. The overwhelming number of Christians to everything else in this country dictates the culture. I'm not about to move to Israel, nor sections of Brooklyn, Miami, Chicago or Toronto, so I just accept that my beliefs have no relevance to the general populace.

Speedy, only because you asked, if you are looking for Christmas at the mall, you are looking in the wrong place. I think you went way overboard. The mall is all about selling stuff. Christmas is all about peace and love for one another. You should have been giving that kid a little love instead of giving him a load of grief. I think that would have gone a lot farther to spread the Christmas spirit than going off on everyone. Just my opinion.

I have two very good friends, one a pastor and the other a lay minister who are apalled at what the holiday season has become. They find the materialism offensive and completely antiethical to what it should be.

So with that, merry Christmas to all of you, whether it is a special day to you or not. I wish you the best.

Max

And may you have a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.

 

[Henning]

So if you said "have a good day", and I said "**** off", you would not get upset, because it only hurts you?

No, I would not get upset because the world is full of *******s and idiots, nothing to get upset about, I'd just clump you into that group and continue on with the smile never leaving my face.

 

[wabower]

Nicely done, Jeff.

I am of faith/group "A". I am approached by a person of faith/group "B" who, in all good intention and sincerity, extends the traditional holiday greeting of faith/group "B".

I have a number of choices as to how to respond.

1. I can respond with the holiday greeting of faith/group "A", and in so doing express to this person that I think that my faith is better than his, or at least more important to me than his is to him. After all, if I feel that he is trying to hurt me by his greeting, it's fair game for me to zing him with mine, right?

2. I can respond with "Happy Holidays," and in so doing express to him that in my presence he is not allowed to celebrate or in any way feel good about his faith. Instead, he must conform to the homogenous, colorless, modern practice that in its effort to be offensive to no one, is meaningless to everyone.

3. I can silently glare at him, because before either of us was born, in a place far away, unspeakable evil was done to my people in the name of Faith "B". Given half a chance, perhaps this person in his heart of hearts would want to do the same to me, if he cannot at least convert me to Faith "B". Even if he is sincere, though, he needs to be humiliated because of his failure to recognize, because of my name or appearance, that I am not of faith/group "B".

4. I can respond with a frivolous, pop-culture "greeting", because he needs to learn, right here and right now, that the faith that has given meaning, comfort and joy to him and his family for years, is worthy of nothing more than mockery.

-- or --

5. I can return the greeting in kind, with the sincere wish that the holiday he celebrates will be meaningful and joyous to him. If it is difficult and foreign for me to do so, then let that be my gift to him at this time of year. It cannot diminish me or my faith to do so, and it will surely brighten his day. It's a win-win, and the world is better for it.

Maybe this "tolerance" thing isn't so bad, after all.

 

[Henning]

I am of faith/group "A". I am approached by a person of faith/group "B" who, in all good intention and sincerity, extends the traditional holiday greeting of faith/group "B".

I have a number of choices as to how to respond.

1. I can respond with the holiday greeting of faith/group "A", and in so doing express to this person that I think that my faith is better than his, or at least more important to me than his is to him. After all, if I feel that he is trying to hurt me by his greeting, it's fair game for me to zing him with mine, right?

2. I can respond with "Happy Holidays," and in so doing express to him that in my presence he is not allowed to celebrate or in any way feel good about his faith. Instead, he must conform to the homogenous, colorless, modern practice that in its effort to be offensive to no one, is meaningless to everyone.

3. I can silently glare at him, because before either of us was born, in a place far away, unspeakable evil was done to my people in the name of Faith "B". Given half a chance, perhaps this person in his heart of hearts would want to do the same to me, if he cannot at least convert me to Faith "B". Even if he is sincere, though, he needs to be humiliated because of his failure to recognize, because of my name or appearance, that I am not of faith/group "B".

4. I can respond with a frivolous, pop-culture "greeting", because he needs to learn, right here and right now, that the faith that has given meaning, comfort and joy to him and his family for years, is worthy of nothing more than mockery.

-- or --

5. I can return the greeting in kind, with the sincere wish that the holiday he celebrates will be meaningful and joyous to him. If it is difficult and foreign for me to do so, then let that be my gift to him at this time of year. It cannot diminish me or my faith to do so, and it will surely brighten his day. It's a win-win, and the world is better for it.

Maybe this "tolerance" thing isn't so bad, after all.

There is also a modification of #1, they greet me with greeting A, and I return greeting B from my beliefs. We can both just interpret this as a sincere greetings and good wishes from someone of another culture than our own. We can look at this as from a perspective that even though there are differences in each of our cultures, they share even more similarities.

This thread's existence just goes to show how screwed up we are, how can someone get so upset over a casual and friendly salutation.

 

[redtail]

I think the store policy is kind of stupid, especially if it allows a Kwanza greeting and prohibits a Christmas or Hanukkah greeting.

That said, I don't celebrate any of them, including Kwanza, but I respect other people's right to do so. I never initiate holiday greetings, however, if someone greets me with one, I just say thanks...same to you. It doesn't offend me because I know they are just being kind and God knows we could use more of that in this world

When my siblings and I were kids, our aunts and uncles would occasionally (not every year) buy us Xmas gifts, against our parents wishes. My parents would remind them that we didn't celebrate Christmas, so sometimes they would hold them and allow us to have them at some point, after the new year.

As someone who believes in Jesus (peace be upon him). Believes that he did not die on the cross...and believes that he is indeed the Messiah!
(Qur'an: Isa ibn Maryam, Al-Masih = Jesus son of Mary, The Messiah)...

it is also my belief that the Christmas holiday has very little to do with Christ!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

 

[denverpilot]

Reminds me of a joke I heard today...

Joe Biden was invited to a person's house of Jewish faith over the holidays...

He saw the Menorah, walked over and blew out the candles, saying he'd made a wish for everyone.

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

Your Jewish acquaintances may be good sports about it, but you'd better believe we do feel it every time someone wishes us a Merry Christmas. Not nearly as bad as a black person hearing someone say, "That was mighty white of you," but it does register, especially if the person saying it knows I'm Jewish. While I understand that folks who don't know me don't realize what they're doing, my good friends always find a holiday greeting which doesn't show such insensitivity.

And for those who don't know a Jew, no, we don't have horns.

Why should I be offended when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas ?

What's wrong about it ?

Would a Christian be offended if I'd say Happy Hannuka ?

 

[Henning]

Why should I be offended when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas ?

What's wrong about it ?

Would a Christian be offended if I'd say Happy Hannuka ?

None that I know, confused yes, offended no. Most Christians couldn't tell you what Hannuka is....

 

[LDJones]

Why should I be offended when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas ?

What's wrong about it ?

Would a Christian be offended if I'd say Happy Hannuka ?

Nope...not offended, nor confused! Would smile and add a Happy Hannuka, too!

 

[Seanaldinho]

I dont care what someone says to me. If they say Happy Hanukkah or Happy Kwanzaa well thats fine I reply and to you as well. Now I dont celebrate either of those but if that person does then who am I to try and force Christmas on them. If someone tells me Merry Christmas then by golly Im gonna reply Merry Christmas to you as well. Happy Holidays is to vague and impersonal.

 

[TommyG]

Here's my gripe about the whole thing. If you are shopping this weekend. Happy holidays doesn't work. I have yet to meet anyone that celebrtates Kwanzaa. Hanukkah has been over for a while now. and Ramadan which they like to lump in the happ holidays has been over for a couple of months. So when it gets to this time of year, yest Merry Christmas is really the only one to ackknowledge.

And if someone gets offended from any direct greeting, Christamas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, ateist festivus, they are screwed up. That is the problem with this country. It is not the stores or the clerks. It is from everyone being a bunch of overly sensative wussies. From the holidays to fairness in schools. It is your freinds, your neighbors, your co workers, and maybe even you that has brought our country to this point.

 

[Jim Logajan]

A kid of about 20 replied with "Happy Quanza". This time I got ****ed.

Thank you - your post was most enlightening about your personality and attitude toward those who do not share your beliefs.

By the way:
"Politics and religion and any other topic likely to become highly charged must be posted in The Spin Zone."

(The last two times I made a post that quoted PoA rules, the moderators removed both of those posts. Except for a winking smiley and the quoted text of the posts I was replying to, the only content I included was a copy of one of the PoA rules - nothing else.)

 

[ebykowsky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=p91GXkQ-Sas
This pretty much sums it up. Happy Ramahanakwa

nsmas to all and to all a good night!

 

[Henning]

I asked 12 Christians today what Hanukkah was, 10 answered: "Jewish Christmas"

 

[Palmpilot]

I wouldn't be offended by someone wishing me happy Hannukah, happy Kwanzaa, or anything else, so I really don't get what the big deal is.

I think each of us has the right to offer whatever holiday greeting we wish, and none of us has the right to control what type of greeting others offer. I think whatever well-meant greeting anyone wishes to offer should be accepted in the spirit it was offered.

I have to say though, that people selling "holiday trees" puzzle me greatly. Is there some type of holiday tree being sold this time of year other than Christmas trees?

I'm also puzzled by the use of BCE and CE instead of BC and AD. Everyone knows that the calendar used in Europe, the Americas, etc. is based on when Jesus was thought to have lived, so what is the purpose in trying to hide it?

And no, I don't think there is a "war on Christmas," just a lot of silliness.

I think there are too many people looking for trivial reasons to get offended.

 

[Henning]

I think there are too many people looking for trivial reasons to get offended.

Yep, we're just getting meaner and meaner with time and population.

 

[poadeleted21]

I asked 12 Christians today what Hanukkah was, 10 answered: "Jewish Christmas"

A friend of mine's 4 year old daughter explained to me tonight that she didn't know why we were celebrating Jesus' birthday because he had been dead for a long time and that was the reason we have Jews. I could only imagine what her parents had told her.

 

[Henning]

A friend of mine's 4 year old daughter explained to me tonight that she didn't know why we were celebrating Jesus' birthday because he had been dead for a long time and that was the reason we have Jews. I could only imagine what her parents had told her.

To be fair, it's not just Christians. A couple of years ago on Passover I was bringing one of my owners and family to the dock so they could get to Temple for service. Doug and his daughter were sitting there and I asked her, 11 years old, what Passover was about, she didn't know, neither did dad.

So we had an agnostic German explaining Passover to a Jewish family.

 

[BenZwebner]

A friend of mine's 4 year old daughter explained to me tonight that she didn't know why we were celebrating Jesus' birthday because he had been dead for a long time and that was the reason we have Jews. I could only imagine what her parents had told her.

Oy Gevalt!

 

[SCCutler]

How about, "Happy New Taxation Period"?

Unless you're on a fiscal year...

 

[Henning]

How about, "Happy New Taxation Period"?

Unless you're on a fiscal year...

Wow, I think you came up with a greeting that will earn a beating from people of all faiths! You're such a Uniter we're gonna call you Spike Obama.

 

[Florida Cracker]

We have a mall near us that, according to one store asst manager, we talked to, "ordered" the store mangers to instruct their employees to use the phrase, "happy giving," to avoid offending muslims.
Not atheists. Not people of the Jewish, Hindi, Buddist, or other religions. Just muslims. The mall ownership is/was supposedly of muslim origin.

We returned the items we had purchased, made notes of the name of each store we would have purchased from and contacted each corporate office, letting them know we merrily spent money elsewhere and would be continuing to do so in the future.

 

[RJM62]

All of this PC nonsense is such a bother.

I'm so glad for having been raised in New York City pre-PC, and especially in the specific neighborhood in Brooklyn where I lived. It was what would be called very "diverse" nowadays, although I don't remember it being described that way back then.

I lived "down by the docks" in the Bush Terminal neighborhood of Brooklyn. The breadwinners of many of the families in the neighborhood were involved in international shipping or trade in some capacity, and many of the families were from overseas. It made for an exquisitely vibrant environment for little kids to grow up in. It also resulted in our having a grasp of racial and cultural differences that's difficult to describe as an adult.

The best I can do in that regard is to say that being little kids, and being naturally curious, we most certainly noticed racial, ethnic, religious, and cultural differences; and moreover, we talked openly about them with each other. I doubt there was an 8-year-old in my neighborhood who couldn't give a reasonably accurate, age-appropriate explanation of the major tenets of most of the religions represented in the neighborhood, as well as the reasons for a lot of the cultural differences in clothing, food, and so forth.

But we didn't attach any qualitative judgments to the differences. They were just part of the mosaic of life, and we accepted them in a matter-of-fact way. We even celebrated them, in our own way, most especially the culinary differences. Word got around very quickly about whose moms were cooking what for which holidays. We also kept track of which kids couldn't eat whatever, when, for whatever reasons, and we made sure our moms worked around these requirements when we invited our friends over for dinner.

Our block parties,as you might expect, were legendary.

By the time we were old enough to understand what "prejudice" was back when it was being talked about in the popular press, we were also old enough to come to the consensus that prejudice was "dumb" -- and with the blessed simplicity of childhood, we ratified that observation and carried on as we always had.

I'm also glad to have gone to school during a time when we actually learned about each others' cultures and religions in school, and no one thought there was anything at all wrong with that.

Neither did it seem odd to me to be wished a Merry Christmas by a Jewish kid, nor to wish him a Happy Chanukah. And if we weren't sure which holiday was appropriate (for example, if there was a new kid in the neighborhood), we had a simple solution: we just asked!

Nowadays, my many Jewish friends send me Christmas cards. I send them Chanukah cards. None of my Black friends celebrates Kwanzaa (actually, I've never met anyone who celebrates Kwanzaa), so that's not an issue.

In the odd little town I live in now, storekeepers seem to choose the greeting for whichever holiday is most proximal. I was wished happy Chanukah during Chanukah, and Merry Christmas afterwards. I suppose in a couple of days it will be Happy New Year. I simply return whatever greeting is offered most of the time. Other times, I'll just say, "Be safe, and be happy."

That anyone would get offended to the point of anger over a holiday greeting makes me scratch my head. But I also think that retailers who forbid their employees from making specific holiday greetings are trying, albeit ineffectively, to avoid offending the thin-skinned among us, who seem increasingly to be the majority.

If I ran a retail business, I'd direct the employees to reply in kind to the customers' greetings. If no greeting was offered, I'd suggest that they make one like "Be safe and happy," which would offend only the thinnest of thin-skinned people.

But at the same time, I'd be shaking my head wondering how, in the name of tolerance and diversity, we managed to undo something that already existed naturally among the kids of Bush Terminal when I was a kid. When did it become taboo to discuss -- or even notice -- differences? When did it become offensive to wish someone happiness in a way appropriate to their own culture or religion?

It's really baffling to me; and it's why I pretty much ignore PC and say whatever I feel like saying. It's absurd to me that in the name of openness, tolerance, and understanding, we avoid even the mere mention of anything that may in any way be identified with any specific religious, racial, or cultural group. How idiotic, lame, and boring that is; and what a loss compared to the celebration of diversity I remember being immersed in, long before anyone thought to call it that.

-Rich