Plane expenses planning. I need some real world examples.

MountainDude said:
If you are worried about unexpected expenses, a club of 3 is a great solution.
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Ultimately, I'd like to do a partnership, but also would like more control over the plane AND home airport. I've only seen a Beechcraft and a Cessna partnership come up in 2 years. The Beech was pretty steep on the front-end and the Cessna was in need of an engine so it wasn't even flying. I'm telling myself it would be ideal to eat the first few years solo and then create the partnership after building some serious time.

bradg33 said:
Another point - depending on your risk tolerance and financial situation, note that insurance is generally not required. Most people obtain it, but if you don't have a lien on the airplane and you're not in one of the very, very few states that purport to require it, you can fly without it.
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I agree with what you're saying, but also read that many FBOs don't allow you to park unless you have liability at a minimum. I know that's not something they probably check for, but I would hate to run into something or have the plane get blown into another one and be held liable without some help. To me, that's where there's more risk than hull damage from a crash....at least until I acquire enough hours to afford the coverage reasonably. If it was a shared aircraft, then it would need insurance.
 
Nikhiln25 said:
I recently bought a 182. For simplicity’s sake, knowing I plan on using 125-150 hours a year, my approach is to put away $25k annually related to aviation expenses and just roll that forward each year (one time upgrades etc will be extra)

Fuel costs me $70/hour if I buy at my home airport, so I figure the balance should be enohhh to carry most expenses. If there is anything left over at the end of the year I would just roll it forward with another $25k next year.


I don’t know if $25k is too much or too little. I will tally up all my expenses at end of year 1 and find out. If it’s too much then I can use that money towards upgrades or larger maintenance expenses that will inevitably show up at some point.


I don’t want to do anything more complicated than this. I don’t want to track evry penny every time and compare it to a budget line and stress out about it. Will just see where I am all in at the end of year 1 w the $25k planned.

$25k doesn’t include cost of purchasing the airplane but includes everything else including hangar insurance annual fuel subscriptions
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This roughly what I do as well. My number is about 20K (on a Cherokee 235) and I did have to OH the engine in 2023. That sucked both in $$$ and the amount of time the plane was down. Without the engine, my annual inspections and unscheduled repairs have averaged about 8-9K per year and the rest is oil changes and fuel. Even with all that (and I was prepared for it), I'm glad I pulled the trigger. Good luck!
 
Richard Frank said:
This roughly what I do as well. My number is about 20K (on a Cherokee 235) and I did have to OH the engine in 2023. That sucked both in $$$ and the amount of time the plane was down. Without the engine, my annual inspections and unscheduled repairs have averaged about 8-9K per year and the rest is oil changes and fuel. Even with all that (and I was prepared for it), I'm glad I pulled the trigger. Good luck!
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How many hours in did you OH?
 
Um, $20K barely covers the R/R+engine mount refurb these days, let alone OH, so I dunno what relevance that has. If 20K is all it took to refresh a powerplant, I'd still have an airplane in 2023.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Um, $20K barely covers the R/R+engine mount refurb these days, let alone OH, so I dunno what relevance that has. If 20K is all it took to refresh a powerplant, I'd still have an airplane in 2023.
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As I said in my post, the OH was NOT included in that number.
 
Nikhiln25 said:
How many hours in did you OH?
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I bought the plane with 900ish hours and I put 200 or so hours on it when it suffered a stuck valve which destroyed the push rod and the lifter. Parts of the lifter and tappit fell into the engine and that was the ballgame. The last overhaul was in 97'. While it had flown a bunch with the previous owner before I bought it, there were two stretches in its history where it sat for several years without being flown. So while I was hoping to get to TBO, it was probably wishful thinking.
 
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scarpozzi said:
Ultimately, I'd like to do a partnership, but also would like more control over the plane AND home airport. I've only seen a Beechcraft and a Cessna partnership come up in 2 years. The Beech was pretty steep on the front-end and the Cessna was in need of an engine so it wasn't even flying. I'm telling myself it would be ideal to eat the first few years solo and then create the partnership after building some serious time.


I agree with what you're saying, but also read that many FBOs don't allow you to park unless you have liability at a minimum. I know that's not something they probably check for, but I would hate to run into something or have the plane get blown into another one and be held liable without some help. To me, that's where there's more risk than hull damage from a crash....at least until I acquire enough hours to afford the coverage reasonably. If it was a shared aircraft, then it would need insurance.
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No FBO is asking for insurance to park on the ramp. A lot may ask for proof of insurance for you to be a hangar (or tie-down) tenant, but not for transient parking.
 
DMD3. said:
I understand that avionics in experimental aircraft are less expensive than in certified (“less” being the operative word). Is this true even if you’re one of the ‘drop off at the shop call me when it’s done’ pilots?

Also, will the same avionics shops be willing to do work on experimentals? Even if I gained the mechanical aptitude to do minor routine maintenance, there’s no way I’d ever be able to mess with avionics.
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During my avionics upgrade, the shop had several experimentals they did installs on.

For budgeting (dreaming) a full on glass panel can run over $100K.
 
bradg33 said:
Another point - depending on your risk tolerance and financial situation, note that insurance is generally not required. Most people obtain it, but if you don't have a lien on the airplane and you're not in one of the very, very few states that purport to require it, you can fly without it.
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A smarter plan may be to insure for Liability alone. The Liability portion of my insurance cost is minimal.
 
Pinecone said:
A smarter plan may be to insure for Liability alone. The Liability portion of my insurance cost is minimal.
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Not a bad option but depending on the airplane, liability only may still come with certain training and experience requirements that could be burdensome (expense wise).
 
Pinecone said:
A smarter plan may be to insure for Liability alone. The Liability portion of my insurance cost is minimal.
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I found that liability only through Avemco was only slightly less than full coverage (25K hull) through A.I.R. using Victoria Neuville ...
 
Daleandee said:
I found that liability only through Avemco was only slightly less than full coverage (25K hull) through A.I.R. using Victoria Neuville ...
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Apples and oranges.

Look at your policy, it will show the breakdown in the cost between Liability and Hull.

Hull is a percentage of the claimed value.

If you are going to carry hull insurance, set the value at a reasonable number to replace your plane. A number of people have had minor mishaps and found their plane "totaled" and sold for scrap because of a low hull value and the insurance company making money by totaling and selling the plane.
 
Pinecone said:
Apples and oranges.

Look at your policy, it will show the breakdown in the cost between Liability and Hull.

Hull is a percentage of the claimed value.

If you are going to carry hull insurance, set the value at a reasonable number to replace your plane. A number of people have had minor mishaps and found their plane "totaled" and sold for scrap because of a low hull value and the insurance company making money by totaling and selling the plane.
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I was just giving comparative numbers between the two companies. I thought one was notably higher on liability than the other and the difference was nearly enough to also cover the hull. I made the change some years ago so it may be less now.

I like having hull insurance though I've considered dropping it but the moment I do that taildragger will teach me another lesson in economics ... ;)
 
scarpozzi said:
I agree with what you're saying, but also read that many FBOs don't allow you to park unless you have liability at a minimum. I know that's not something they probably check for, but I would hate to run into something or have the plane get blown into another one and be held liable without some help. To me, that's where there's more risk than hull damage from a crash....at least until I acquire enough hours to afford the coverage reasonably. If it was a shared aircraft, then it would need insurance.
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As others have said many airports require at least liability insurance for aircraft based there, but there would be no realistic way to enforce it for transient aircraft. But even if it wasn't required, it's good idea unless you have the cash reserves to pay to fix somebody's Learjet if your plane gets blown into it. I've foregone hull insurance for some of the cheap planes I've owned, but carried liability even on my ultralight.
 
I have an excel file that I have used years ago for one airplane, anyone can enter their specific situation (ie their hangar costs, their overhaul costs, their insurance premium, their hours/year) and see an all up hourly rate estimate.
POA won't accept an excel file apparently (its not showing as available) but I could put on a hosting site if I was told of one.
 

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Let'sgoflying! said:
I have an excel file that I have used years ago for one airplane, anyone can enter their specific situation (ie their hangar costs, their overhaul costs, their insurance premium, their hours/year) and see an all up hourly rate estimate.
POA won't accept an excel file apparently (its not showing as available) but I could put on a hosting site if I was told of one.
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Maybe just put it on Google Drive and make it shareable with a link?
 
frfly172 said:
If you have to ask you can’t afford it.
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This is such a bogus answer, and not remotely true.

Some of us like to plan. I could have a billion dollars and I'd still ask this question.

And if you can afford it, but not by a ton, then you definitely have to ask even if the answer is yes.

If I have enough money both in the pot and coming in to take care of my financial obligations now and in the future, plus a $100K sitting around and $50K per year extra coming in, can I afford a particular airplane? That's a perfectly legitimate question.

IMO, you need to have the ability to access enough money to do an engine overhaul. It's easy enough to find what an overhaul shop charges for a particular engine; add about $8K on top of that for R&R and related expenses. That's going to be your biggest surprise expense.
 
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