Plane down in st Louis

It will be interesting to find out the facts about this accident. The news story is very sketchy.
 
A Cessna 150 barely has any electrical to begin with. There must be more to the story.
 
An electrical failure at night is an emergency that should result in a diversion to the nearest brightly lit airport using backup GPS and preferably backup portable com. Everyone carries those, especially at night, right? Night XC in a new plane would be the first of an unhappy chain of decisions here. Very unfortunate.
 
Didn’t see where is was a 150.. but info is sketchy. Trip from NY to Missouri in a 150
Is a haul!!
I’d text one of my pilot buddies long before I’d text my wife to help.
What was the weather like???
 
Flying a plane you just purchased can be a bag of surprises. Never really know what you have until you've owned it awhile. It's like the test flight after your plane is returned to service after an annual or a new engine is installed. Best be ready for anything.
 
Sounds like they were unwilling, or for some reason unable to divert to a better lighted runway.
 
I saw a news clip of the airport operator talking to media. One idiot asked him how he felt about a father and son dying, and the guy gave him the mal de ojo and said "Why would you ask a question like that?".

Should be on the KMOX website.
 
chemgeek said:
An electrical failure at night is an emergency that should result in a diversion to the nearest brightly lit airport using backup GPS and preferably backup portable com. Everyone carries those, especially at night, right? Night XC in a new plane would be the first of an unhappy chain of decisions here. Very unfortunate.
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Definitely an emergency, but it can be mitigated and shouldn’t result in a fatal outcome, especially in a 150.

Very sad to hear this.
 
???
FESTUS, Mo. – A father and son died Thursday evening in a plane crash near Festus Memorial Airport. They’d just picked up the plane in New York state from a relative. The aircraft had been in the family for several decades.

People at the airport said the father and son planned to refurbish the plane and that the son was going to learn to fly like his father, who was an American Airlines pilot.

The plane crashed around 10:30 p.m. about 300 yards south of the airport runway. Weather forced the police to stop its search overnight.

On Friday morning, the local hospital’s helicopter and a private plane joined in the search. The wreckage was discovered around daybreak.

Mike Bippen, vice-president of the organization that operates the airport, said he knows the pilot and doubts the crash was his fault.

“His experience – I find it very, very unlikely operator error,” he said.

Bippen said the plot was a good man.

“Very family-oriented,” he said. “He loved his boys.”

The pilot reported electrical problems and because of that, it’s believed he wasn’t able to turn runway lights on remotely like most pilots are able to do. He texted his fiancé on the ground for help.

“She went to the end of the runway with a flashlight and attempted to flag him in,” said Jefferson County Sheriff Deputy Corporal John Kozel.
 
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If the electrical failure was reported, how hard would it really be to get someone to go turn on the runway lights? I mean ATC could just ask a nearby pilot to switch to the CTAF and click his mic a few times right?

*edit, I just read again... he texted his wife. Damnit, if the right person had just gotten the information or someone had known what to do. :(
 
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cowman said:
I mean ATC could just ask a nearby pilot to switch to the CTAF and click his mic a few times right?
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10:30 at night probably no one close enough. But an AA pilot, and someone with a flashlight at the end of the runway to guide him in. Electrical failure, lost instrument lights and stalled???
 
AKBill said:
10:30 at night probably no one close enough. But an AA pilot, and someone with a flashlight.???
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Maybe? I guess I never really thought about it but the clicker must have some way of limiting the range it responds at or all those airports that share a CTAF would be getting turned on/off by pilots at other airports. Would an airliner up at FL300 clicking his mic 7 times on 122.8 turn on the lights at every airport with 100 miles?
 
cowman said:
...*edit, I just read again... he texted his wife. Damnit, if the right person had just gotten the information or someone had known what to do. :(
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Maybe I am being unreasonable, or quite likely there is more to this than we know so far, but I would have expected an AA pilot to "know what to do".
Arranging for the waving of a flashlight at the end of the runway in apparently inclement weather ain't it.

"...The plane crashed around 10:30 p.m. about 300 yards south of the airport runway. Weather forced the police to stop its search overnight..."​
 
cowman said:
Would an airliner up at FL300 clicking his mic 7 times on 122.8 turn on the lights at every airport with 100 miles?
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maybe not a hundred miles, but yes...at least the ones with pilot controlled lighting on 122.8.
 
GRG55 said:
Maybe I am being unreasonable, or quite likely there is more to this than we know so far, but I would have expected an AA pilot to "know what to do".
Arranging for the waving of a flashlight at the end of the runway in apparently inclement weather ain't it.
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I guess he should've had her drive the car to the end of the runway and shine the headlights down the runway. That's what we always did.
 
GRG55 said:
Maybe I am being unreasonable, or quite likely there is more to this than we know so far, but I would have expected an AA pilot to "know what to do".
Arranging for the waving of a flashlight at the end of the runway in apparently inclement weather ain't it.

"...The plane crashed around 10:30 p.m. about 300 yards south of the airport runway. Weather forced the police to stop its search overnight..."​
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Maybe that played into it. Maybe he had some reason... like worry about an emergency being declared and having questions to answer that might cause him issues with his job. Or perhaps he just thought he could handle a night landing without any lighting? Perhaps both? I'm only speculating of course.
 
It’s one thing to land without your landing light working, but landing on a 2200’ runway without that pavement being lit up? Just one more hotel short of home, before dark, and we wouldn’t be talking about this.

How long of a day? Any mechanical issues prior? Whatever could happen, it’s easier to deal with in daylight. It sounds like a new to them plane, though it may of been in the family. How prepared for night flying were they/he?

I think ‘get-there-itis’ played a role in this accident. One needs to keep in mind, maybe ‘we’re not as good as we once were’.
 
Just sad.

Crap like this is why I don’t ferry airplanes at night. Like someone said, it can take a little while to shake the bugs out of any new airplane. You just never know what you’re going to get.
 
The “family” they got the plane back off of probably feels like crap. Wonder if there was some complacency over looking over aircraft in detail and logs proir to taking it up???
 
benyflyguy said:
Something about an electrical failure??
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If you lose the alternator you have about 20 to 30 minutes before the battery goes dead. If you lose the alternator you have 20 to 30 minutes land at the first available lighted airport.
 
AKBill said:
Electrical failure, lost instrument lights and stalled???
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This happened in St. Louis...more than a few well lit airfields around.

Even if he had an electrical failure and lost instrument lights, he should’ve been able to mitigate the issue to get it down. I fly a 152 that barely has any panel lights at all—even with the electrical working. If I’m flying at night, a lot of times I’ll have to turn on the flashlight on my iPhone to give me enough light to see the panel. If this pilot was an AA pilot, I would’ve thought this would’ve been a total non-event, which makes me think there’s more pieces to the story that we’re not hearing.
 
Festus is a ‘burb to the west of the city. Some people here were speculating on if his fuel situation precluded heading towards Lambert. Someone mentioned if he had his phone he could have called or even asked his fiancé to call Lambert and have them bring him in under light signals. At 10:30 at night Lambert is pretty deserted right now.

Sad all around.
 
I’d think just one little flashlight would actually be worse than no lights.

Maybe she couldn’t get her car out on the field
 
Fearless Tower said:
That’s assuming you notice you lost the alternator....
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It's when everything goes dark about 30 minutes after the little RED light labeled "Alt" comes on.
Also, it is possible the alternator failed much earlier and "GetHomeItis" set in.
 
Ryanb said:
This happened in St. Louis...more than a few well lit airfields around.
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Festus is a 2200' sidewalk and it's NOT in St. Louis. Not many other options in the immediate area and all have pilot controlled lighting so, they would have been similarly dark, albeit quite a bit bigger (Potosi and Sparta are closest).

I guess he could have gone to Parks (St Louis Downtown, KCPS), it's a class D field that would have been lit up. It's about 25 miles NNE but it's well inside of the STL Class B and maybe that played into his decision making. That's about the only relatively close option he had that would be "well lit" except for the AFB. But then you have to deal with a radio failure, position lights failure and control tower at night. Would be interesting just getting them to see you. Then again, I'd bet KCPS is pretty dead at 10pm and would be a low risk operation.

Dr. O said:
"Weather forced the police to stop its search overnight."
Perhaps a clue?
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Yeah, I was thinking similar but, I looked at the historical METARs for KCPS, KFAM and KSAR, the closest airports with weather reporting in three different directions, and they were all reporting Clear and 10mi.

It's a puzzle for sure, but, unless there was some other pressing issue, I certainly think I would have (at minimum) diverted to a nearby field that was more generous in size. KFES is a postage stamp on a good day...and for this situation, with much of the surroundings being quite inhospitable, I certainly think I'd go elsewhere. KPCD is only thirty miles SE, is 7,000 freakin' feet long, wide, and surrounded by Mississippi River bottom fields. Not much that'll kill you there.

Also, if the skies were truly clear and not just high enough overcast for the awos to be calling it clear, then there should have been a decent amount of moonlight Thursday evening.

Again, puzzling for sure.

I guess we'll find out in a year or so.
 
I hate to hear this......
I only think what would do..
We always carry, portable VHF,back up bacttreies for our Portable Garmin...
I just don’t get it....
Can’t going flying on the cheap....
Very disturbing


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
A1Topgun said:
It's when everything goes dark about 30 minutes after the little RED light labeled "Alt" comes on.
Also, it is possible the alternator failed much earlier and "GetHomeItis" set in.
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You assume it has an alternator failure light.
 
LoLPilot said:
Festus is a ‘burb to the west of the city.
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Ummmm...no...

It's really not "a 'burb" and it's definitely not "west".

30 miles or more outside of a town as small as St.Louis isn't a 'burb. STL 'burbs are inside the 141 loop.
 
Wonder what his GA experience was like.

Sometimes if 95% of your hours were 121, one can be a bit of a hot mess doing single pilot GA work.
 
James331 said:
Wonder what his GA experience was like.

Sometimes if 95% of your hours were 121, one can be a bit of a hot mess doing single pilot GA work.
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Even so, that brings us back to the point that it was a 150, not like it was a complex or anything. I’ve said it a few times now, but something just doesn’t add up. There has to be more to the story than just an electrical issue.
 
Ryanb said:
Even so, that brings us back to the point that it was a 150, not like it was a complex or anything. I’ve said it a few times now, but something just doesn’t add up. There has to be more to the story than just an electrical issue.
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Sometimes simple can be quite hard when youre used to two crew and a ton a very regimented procedures and having lots of resources
 
Ryanb said:
Even so, that brings us back to the point that it was a 150, not like it was a complex or anything. I’ve said it a few times now, but something just doesn’t add up. There has to be more to the story than just an electrical issue.
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The electrical issue was only the start of the chain. No juice = no way to turn the runway lights on. Then decided to try to land anyway.
 
Dave Theisen said:
The electrical issue was only the start of the chain. No juice = no way to turn the runway lights on. Then decided to try to land anyway.
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And a regular airline pilot that doesn't have a ton of recent GA experience could easily mis-judge a flare and such in daylight conditions, much less night in a new plane without runway lights. Seen plenty of that.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You assume it has an alternator failure light.
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The first airplane I owned was a Cessna 150G, it had a generator. 1967 Cessna has a generator and a "Charge Indicator Light" per the Cessna documentation. So we can sit around and assume all day. Was it generator failure? Did the light come on? was the bulb burned out?
Bottom line: How does a airline pilot end up flying a GA trainer in the dark with no lights?
 
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