Pilots also molested during medical exams

PeterNSteinmetz said:
Typical PoA thread drift of course. But also note that the rectal exam provides additional information beyond the assessment of prostate size and hardness, such as testing for occult fecal blood, sphincter tone, etc.

But for adults this should be up to each individual whether this wish this test performed.
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Sphincter tone. Haha
 
Morgan3820 said:
My call. I also hate hospitals and many other things medical. I will do the blood tests and imaging but some other things, nope. Pretty sure that I have had my last colonoscopy too. (What ever happened to the camera pill?) I am ok with the consequences of my decisions. Got to die of something. A few years, one side or the other makes little difference in the end.
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I hear you, I know a guy went in for a colonoscopy in November, still in recovery. They perforated his colon, sent him home. He went back, 2 times telling them something was wrong, they sent him home, finally he went to the ER, ended up losing a bunch of his colon, plus was in sepsis. Hearing that, I'll still probably get one done when I'm due, just not by his doctor.

The problem with avoiding this stuff, these screenings, is that if you do have what they check for, it's not just you die one day, it can be years of suffering for something that may have been easily caught. That's why I do it. But it is your call.
 
I wasn't trying to be cute. The thread title does imply that the purpose is sexual gratification, doesn't it? Isn't that what "molested" means?
 
Palmpilot said:
I wasn't trying to be cute. The thread title does imply that the purpose is sexual gratification, doesn't it? Isn't that what "molested" means?
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That's not really a fair interpretation of the title, apparently this guy doing these exams was a dirt bag who allegedly molested underaged people. But in your defense, some people seem to want to sexualize what could be lifesaving examinations. If someone doesn't trust their doctor, they should find someone else.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wasn't trying to be cute. The thread title does imply that the purpose is sexual gratification, doesn't it? Isn't that what "molested" means?
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I agree. I think that was the clear implication of the article that was linked. Remember one of the administrators who tried to have Andresen fired said he was outraged that he was “fooling around” with the boys. The investigation was about alleged behavior aimed at sexual gratification.
 
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I am probably out of place telling "my story" but it is humorous when I look back.

I had been diagnosed with bladder cancer (nothing really serious) and my doctor asked when was the last time I had a prostate exam .... never , I said.

He told me that every man over 40 should have it checked... got me to lay on my side facing the wall .... did the check , and said hmmmm .... wait right there for a minute.

Came right back with another doctor who also checked my prostrate ... he also said hmmm ... and asked me how old I was .... 63 I replied .... really ???? he said ... wait right there.

Minute later they brought back a third doctor and I got the third finger up my butt .... same reaction ... this is rare he said .... by then I am thinking they must have found a big cancer there or something.

Turns out for a 63 year old man I had the prostrate of a healthy teenager and they had never seen that before .
 
GaryM said:
Good for you, though it seems like the second and third doctors could have simply accepted the word of the first!
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Yes .... and I should have mentioned that the other 2 doctors were interns and it was considered part of their training.
They also said men begin to develop prostrate "cancer" around 40 years old (thus the regular check ups are recommended) .... mostly it comes very slowly and never an issue ... but some are faster ... partly genetics apparently.

All those tests were done at Winnipeg Health Sciences hospital in the department of nuclear medicine .... haaa ... and they literally injected me with something like plutonium , put me into an MRI scanner for 45 minutes and produced a 3 dimensional "XRAY" type image of my whole body. Amazing modern technology.
 
A good physical exam by a physician that knows how to do it, will catch a lot of treatable disease, including disease that is not picked up on a blood test or imaging. Physical exam is a lost art, but if a physician is not doing a good exam, he or she is cutting corners, possibly due to time constraints, possibly financial, since a PE is not billable, but is not a mark of the best care. The real world, rectal exams are are a pain in the arse for the MD (pun intended), takes time, needs supplies, but can detect treatable prostate cancer, anorectal cancer, colon cancer, neurologic disease. A genital exam, endocrine problems, testicular cancer, in kids sexual abuse. A simple handshake can give an idea of circulation, heart rhythm with the finger over the radial artery, endocrine status, strength, a look with the naked eye into the face, lipid status, neurologic health, endocrine function, hair skin, rare disorders of copper metabolism. Physical exam is a lost art, those of us that trained before the CT scan are probably a dying breed. ONE CT scan is estimated to be a 1 in 2000 risk for developing cancer, probably higher with older scanner protocols. Some people want them for everything. Even for their kids which likely have higher odds of damage from the radiation. Notwithstanding, there probably are some creepy MD's out there, but in my opinion, I think the numbers are low. I don't know anything about the case being discussed, but just taken aback by those that think their Doctor is doing them a service by not examining them.

And just to reemphasis that said above, imaging can really miss a lot of significant cancers, and medical conditions, there are not blood tests that are reliable for many diseases. Plus false positive imaging and false positive blood tests can lead to harm and even death from more testing and interventions.
 
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A Martin said:
I am probably out of place telling "my story" but it is humorous when I look back.
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As long as you took the plunge...

It was my first AME physical since moving to Denver. I'm getting the inguinal hernia "turn your head and cough" test. So I'm standing there with my pants around my ankles and his hand in the position.

He chooses that moment to ask, "So what do you do for a living?"

My answer: "There is absolutely no way I am telling you right now!"
 
midlifeflyer said:
As long as you took the plunge...

It was my first AME physical since moving to Denver. I'm getting the inguinal hernia "turn your head and cough" test. So I'm standing there with my pants around my ankles and his hand in the position.

He chooses that moment to ask, "So what do you do for a living?"

My answer: "There is absolutely no way I am telling you right now!"
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:rofl:
 
weilke said:
That said, if a urologist does aeromedical exams, it would be entirely appropriate to ask any male pilot whether someone handles their prostate cancer screening (be it PSA or PSA+DRE). Different from women who usually have an established relationship with a GYN, FP or NP who does pap-smears, sends them for mammograms etc., men tend to have a more fragmented primary care situation. Often, the recommended screening falls through the cracks.
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When I was younger, I was not one of those women who gets regular exams. I was in my mid 20s and went to a new AME. He asked me when my latest pap smear had been... um maybe never? So he told me I should have one, and I let him. Until I read this thread, it never dawned on me that an AME would do one for other than medical reasons. Doesn't seem like something that would give one pleasure. Don't remember if he charged more for it. Now I know it's not required. I think I knew it then too, but it seemed like reasonable medical advice, since I was there, and would probably not have made a special appointment with an ob/gyn.
 
Everskyward said:
When I was younger, I was not one of those women who gets regular exams. I was in my mid 20s and went to a new AME. He asked me when my latest pap smear had been... um maybe never? So he told me I should have one, and I let him. Until I read this thread, it never dawned on me that an AME would do one for other than medical reasons. Doesn't seem like something that would give one pleasure. Don't remember if he charged more for it. Now I know it's not required. I think I knew it then too, but it seemed like reasonable medical advice, since I was there, and would probably not have made a special appointment with an ob/gyn.
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The current ACOG recommendation is for women between 21 and 29 to have a pap smear every 3 years. Iirc starting 1 year after becoming sexually active. I don't know what the recommendation was when you were in your 20s, but I don't think this has changed.
And no, unless someones wiring is screwed up, doing a pap-smear or a prostate exam doesnt give anyone pleasure.
 
weilke said:
The current ACOG recommendation is for women between 21 and 29 to have a pap smear every 3 years. Iirc starting 1 year after becoming sexually active. I don't know what the recommendation was when you were in your 20s, but I don't think this has changed.
And no, unless someones wiring is screwed up, doing a pap-smear or a prostate exam doesnt give anyone pleasure.
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Yes, there are doctors who get pleasure from molesting patients, and yes, we're taking about people who, by definition have their wiring screwed up.
 
Lindberg said:
Yes, there are doctors who get pleasure from molesting patients, and yes, we're taking about people who, by definition have their wiring screwed up.
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Right, like that creep up in MI.

But the great majority of medical providers are not screwed up like that. If during an encounter for other reasons (AME, DOT, insurance), a medical provider offers to get the patient caught up on age appropriate recommended screening (pap smear/HPV / mammogram for women, PSA +/- DRE for men), my first thought is that they are looking out for their patients best interest, not that they are doing this for any nefarious reason. Nobody ever made a boat payment with revenue created from non-indicated pap-smears or PSA orders.
 
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Lindberg said:
Yes, there are doctors who get pleasure from molesting patients, and yes, we're taking about people who, by definition have their wiring screwed up.
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Don't think anyone said there weren't. There are sickos in every profession, but I think most would agree this sort of thing isn't prevalent enough to justify avoiding preventative care.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Eat well, exercise, regularly get a prostate exam/colonoscopy ..still die
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I don't need to live forever, but I also don't want to die any earlier than I have to! I plan to get my first colonoscopy when I turn 45, which in my case will certainly lead to longer life because my wife has made it clear that she'll kill me if I don't. :p
 
Morgan3820 said:
Eat well, exercise, regularly get a prostate exam/colonoscopy ..still die
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....in your 80s, shot by a jealous husband.

Not at 55 with bone mets.

While the details of PC screening are controversial, mortality from the disease has decreased by 40% since widespread sceening has become the norm. While this comes at the price of not only money but also a number of unneccessary biopsies, there is a definite mortality benefit to the screening program.

Yes, in the end 'we all die', but there are differences in 'how you get there', and when.

Same with cervical cancer. Its rare these days that young women die from this, it wasn't rare 60-70 years ago.
 
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Morgan3820 said:
Eat well, exercise, regularly get a prostate exam/colonoscopy ..still die
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Do good preflight planning, make sure you have enough fuel with an appropriate reserve, get weather forecasts, inspect the aircraft...still die.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Eat well, exercise, regularly get a prostate exam/colonoscopy ..still die
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Jokes aside, what if doing those things led to a few extra years of life that you may or may not have otherwise had - would it be worth it?
kayoh190 said:
I don't need to live forever, but I also don't want to die any earlier than I have to!
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Exactly. I’d rather try to live as healthy of a lifestyle as I can, so I can be honest with myself that I gave it as best of a shot as I could.
 
RyanB said:
Jokes aside, what if doing those things led to a few extra years of life that you may or may not have otherwise had - would it be worth it?
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Maybe, maybe not. My athletic, healthy as a horse father lingered for years in a Alzheimer's lock down unit in a nursing home before finally passing at 96. A WWII Marine veteran of the Guadalcanal campaign, university professor, amateur athlete spent his last decade not knowing my name, having other people wipe his a$$. His mind, who he was, was gone but has body kept right on ticking. If you can promise me that I won't suffer a similar fate, I might give it more thought. There are worse things than death. Enjoy your youth.
 
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Palmpilot said:
Do good preflight planning, make sure you have enough fuel with an appropriate reserve, get weather forecasts, inspect the aircraft...still die.
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I see your point. But I don't feel that a proper preflight is at all similar to the indignity of a colonoscopy. To the clinical staff it is a routine event but not to the patient, at least not this patient. I still don't like strangers, or friends for that matter, poking me with long pokey things.
 
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Morgan3820 said:
I see your point. But I don't feel that a proper preflight is at all similar to the indignity of a colonoscopy. To the clinical staff it is a routine event but not to the patient, at least not this patient. I still don't like strangers, or friends for that matter, poking me with long pokey things.
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Poop in a box. Mail the box to a lab. Call it a day.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I see your point. But I don't feel that a proper preflight is at all similar to the indignity of a colonoscopy. To the clinical staff it is a routine event but not to the patient, at least not this patient. I still don't like strangers, or friends for that matter, poking me with long pokey things.
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I've had two colonoscopies, and they didn't feel like an indignity to me. They certainly didn't feel like a fate worse than death. Obviously you're entitled to feel however you feel, of course.
 
Palmpilot said:
I've had two colonoscopies, and they didn't feel like an indignity to me.
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I've had a couple of colonoscopies and I kinda felt like Michael Jackson as they used propofol to put me to sleep ... :happydance:
 
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