Pilots also molested during medical exams

The AME has be dead for 13 years and now people decide to come forward and sue the University.
 
If true, this went on over decades and was a very serious offense for a doctor.
 
Should I be worried for when I go in for my colonoscopy???
 
A prostate exam and testicular exam, was that it? I've had a friend who had to have a testicle removed in his 20s and another who had his prostate removed in his 30s both due to cancer. They both would have probably died without these exams.
 
PaulS said:
A prostate exam and testicular exam, was that it? I've had a friend who had to have a testicle removed in his 20s and another who had his prostate removed in his 30s both due to cancer. They both would have probably died without these exams.
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A complete physical should definitely include these. However, an athletic physical or FAA physical normally does not. And one should not rely on such physicals for health purposes.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
A complete physical should definitely include these. However, an athletic physical or FAA physical normally does not. And one should not rely on such physicals for health purposes.
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Agreed Peter, but for most, especially before 30, some before 40, these encounters are the only time most of these people see a doctor. If a prostate exam and testicular cancer exam is all that happened I think this is BS. The bottom line is these are grown men and women, if you don't want something done, say no.
 
There are a lot of docs that believe in a through exam in general and are not sexually abusing ppl.
when a pt comes to see me and asks for a physical I usually will review what it’s for and what is indicated. If you are 40 or over it’s a detailed exam - but choices are made. Nothing is forced. Some things are deferred or refused -which is documented.
Oddly enough for my first flight physical in my 20’s i had an ungloved scrotal exam. Didn’t think much of it. Used to sports physicals looking for hernias. Probably not required looking back. Didn’t have to pay extra for it lol. No other FAA exam since then included that though.
 
Clip4 said:
The University is only worried about negative news. Their attorneys will settle with the black mailers.
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Maybe. To really get to the bottom of this one would have to look at the actual evidence against Anderson.

In an earlier report, a retired administrator described this as “Easthope, who was associate vice president for student services, said he was ‘furious” as he marched across campus to fire Anderson based on a report that he was “fooling around with boys.’ Sort of vague exactly what that means.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Maybe. To really get to the bottom of this one would have to look at the actual evidence against Anderson.

In an earlier report, a retired administrator described this as “Easthope, who was associate vice president for student services, said he was ‘furious” as he marched across campus to fire Anderson based on a report that he was “fooling around with boys.’ Sort of vague exactly what that means.
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You are unlikely to get all of the evidence because it no longer exists. That includes exculpatory evidence.
 
Clip4 said:
You are unlikely to get all of the evidence because it no longer exists. That includes exculpatory evidence.
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That is a serious issue. And particularly in cases where the statute of limitations gets extended like this.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Maybe. To really get to the bottom of this one would have to look at the actual evidence against Anderson.

In an earlier report, a retired administrator described this as “Easthope, who was associate vice president for student services, said he was ‘furious” as he marched across campus to fire Anderson based on a report that he was “fooling around with boys.’ Sort of vague exactly what that means.
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https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...nvestigation-dr-robert-e-anderson/4836425002/

This should bring up the 2018 investigative report from the University Police.

The investigation likely dealt with the tip of the iceberg. This man was removed from the job at the university health center but continued to work within the athletic department for another 25 years. His expansive definition of what was required for a sports physical in a 17 year old was apparently well know among the students in the athletic department. He had been reported to the state and the university along the way. Similar to the Nassar case, through his position in the athletic department, the students were in a very assymetric power situation and the fact that nobody spoke up beyond joking about 'Dr drop your drawers' and 'two finger Anderson' doesn't mean that nothing happened. A testicular exam as part of a annual physical in a young man is medically appropriate, a prostate exam on a wrestler who sees the doc for a dislocated elbow is not.

As for what happened in his private practice and with pilots, that's a slightly different story. He apparently had a endocrine practice specializing in andrology. The entire 'Low T' industry didn't exist at the time. If you have a hammer, you see many nails. If you go to a andrologist, you are going to get a physical exam that includes your genitals, that wouldn't be unusual. With the aeromedical exams, we again have the assymetry of power. There is probably a good number of pilots who just decided that he was a creep and that they wouldn't go back to him but didn't feel a need to get involved in litigation or complaints to the state medical board.
 
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weilke said:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...nvestigation-dr-robert-e-anderson/4836425002/

This should bring up the 2018 investigative report from the University Police.

The investigation likely dealt with the tip of the iceberg. This man was removed from the job at the university health center but continued to work within the athletic department for another 25 years. His expansive definition of what was required for a sports physical in a 17 year old was apparently well know among the students in the athletic department. He had been reported to the state and the university along the way. Similar to the Nassar case, through his position in the athletic department, the students were in a very assymetric power situation and the fact that nobody spoke up beyond joking about 'Dr drop your drawers' and 'two finger Anderson' doesn't mean that nothing happened. A testicular exam as part of a annual physical in a young man is medically appropriate, a prostate exam on a wrestler who sees the doc for a dislocated elbow is not.

As for what happened in his private practice and with pilots, that's a slightly different story. He apparently had a endocrine practice specializing in andrology. The entire 'Low T' industry didn't exist at the time. If you have a hammer, you see many nails. If you go to a andrologist, you are going to get a physical exam that includes your genitals, that wouldn't be unusual. With the aeromedical exams, we again have the assymetry of power. There is probably a good number of pilots who just decided that he was a creep and that they wouldn't go back to him but didn't feel a need to get involved in litigation or complaints to the state medical board.
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My AME is a urologist. He didn't do any "urology stuff" at my last exam.

My PCP never stuck his finger in my butt until I was 45. I even asked him about it at my physical when I was 44 and 9 months. His response was I shouldn't prematurely age myself. There actually are docs who don't do unnecessary exams just for the heck of it.

I can't comment from experience, but my suspicion is that most docs would rather not handle your genitals or finger your prostate, so anyone who does it when not strictly medically necessary or indicated is suspect.
 
Lindberg said:
My AME is a urologist. He didn't do any "urology stuff" at my last exam.

My PCP never stuck his finger in my butt until I was 45. I even asked him about it at my physical when I was 44 and 9 months. His response was I shouldn't prematurely age myself. There actually are docs who don't do unnecessary exams just for the heck of it.

I can't comment from experience, but my suspicion is that most docs would rather not handle your genitals or finger your prostate, so anyone who does it when not strictly medically necessary or indicated is suspect.
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I've probably used 5 or 6 different folks for my medical. Seems to me the ex-military folks were pretty diligent about the rectal exam and the guys with a civilian background have never even mentioned it.
 
Lindberg said:
My AME is a urologist. He didn't do any "urology stuff" at my last exam.

My PCP never stuck his finger in my butt until I was 45. I even asked him about it at my physical when I was 44 and 9 months. His response was I shouldn't prematurely age myself. There actually are docs who don't do unnecessary exams just for the heck of it.
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My comment regarding hammer/nail was regarding his andrology practice. If you go to someone who deals with male hormone issues, a genital exam is par for the course. For an aviation medical, not so much.

Sad story. Sure sounds like he did some damage during his time at the University and those in charge just decided to move the problem along. A closeted gay man who abused his position for his own satisfaction. Different times.
 
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I’m assuming a flight school he worked with? I can’t imagine him getting away with that w 40yr old on up guys...
 
kyleb said:
I've probably used 5 or 6 different folks for my medical. Seems to me the ex-military folks were pretty diligent about the rectal exam and the guys with a civilian background have never even mentioned it.
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My urologist AME is a former AF doc and still does entry exams for them. So another data point.
 
There is fair variability regarding rectal exams in medical practice. When I was in medical school, all patients admitted to the medical service had a rectal exam as part of their admission physical. You actually got chewed out if you didn't perform that part of the exam. (Admittedly some time ago.)

Not to say what was going on here with Anderson was normal practice. Those type of exams for a sports physical on underage boys are uncalled for and a serious violation.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
There is fair variability regarding rectal exams in medical practice. When I was in medical school, all patients admitted to the medical service had a rectal exam as part of their admission physical. You actually got chewed out if you didn't perform that part of the exam. (Admittedly some time ago.)

Not to say what was going on here with Anderson was normal practice. Those type of exams for a sports physical on underage boys are uncalled for and a serious violation.
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Thank goodness for the PSA. Yup none of that stuff anymore. I am fine with a CAT scan if you insist but none of that.
 
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Let's see, five seconds or less of a finger up my butt, or undetected prostate cancer...... give me a break guys.
 
Typical PoA thread drift of course. But also note that the rectal exam provides additional information beyond the assessment of prostate size and hardness, such as testing for occult fecal blood, sphincter tone, etc.

But for adults this should be up to each individual whether this wish this test performed.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Typical PoA thread drift of course. But also note that the rectal exam provides additional information beyond the assessment of prostate size and hardness, such as testing for occult fecal blood, sphincter tone, etc.

But for adults this should be up to each individual whether this wish this test performed.
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That was my point at the beginning of the thread, for adults it is a choice, don't get all butthurt (see what I did there?) after the fact because of not speaking up. For kids, not so much.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Typical PoA thread drift of course. But also note that the rectal exam provides additional information beyond the assessment of prostate size and hardness, such as testing for occult fecal blood, sphincter tone, etc.

But for adults this should be up to each individual whether this wish this test performed.
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a long time ago, I was hospitalized for some weird symptoms, and after a day of being poked, prodded, scanned, bled, tapped, and injected, I was finally just lying in a room when the med student came in to do her history and physical exam. After all the normal stuff, she pulled out the lube and asked me to roll on my side. I asked did she really need to do that since they already had pictures of my insides? She said yes, she had to do a complete exam. I told her there was no way that after the day I had, she was going to stick her fingers in my butt. She was petrified, and the nurse--through her laughter--said, "Just write, 'patient refused.'" This little med student didn't have any power over me though, or even control over my treatment. Plus I was already pretty ****ed off at that point....

Even as an adult, if we were talking about an AME, job-required physical, or even my PCP, I don't know that I'd say anything. I mean is the burden on me to know when it is medically necessary for a doc to stick his finger in my butt and when it's not?
 
That said, if a urologist does aeromedical exams, it would be entirely appropriate to ask any male pilot whether someone handles their prostate cancer screening (be it PSA or PSA+DRE). Different from women who usually have an established relationship with a GYN, FP or NP who does pap-smears, sends them for mammograms etc., men tend to have a more fragmented primary care situation. Often, the recommended screening falls through the cracks.
 
PaulS said:
Let's see, five seconds or less of a finger up my butt, or undetected prostate cancer...... give me a break guys.
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My call. I also hate hospitals and many other things medical. I will do the blood tests and imaging but some other things, nope. Pretty sure that I have had my last colonoscopy too. (What ever happened to the camera pill?) I am ok with the consequences of my decisions. Got to die of something. A few years, one side or the other makes little difference in the end.
 
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