Pilot Training + GI Bill

Rotarywing said:
So you think anyone owe you something? I spent years in the Army and retired as a LT with plenty of experience doing "stuff" in other countries. Nobody owes me anything. It's a job, I did apply for it and made the choice. I was NOT drafted!!
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You type like a LT who got all of his experience playing halo. Shut your douche mouth and go help James plan the Hillary 2016 rock the vote campaign.

So are you saying those that stayed in the service for 20 years aren't owed their retirement? That's a benifit just like all of the other VA services.

Go take your meds before the nurse finds out you are playing on the Internet again.
 
So where did I say they where not worth their retirement?

Really no reason to argue with you. Judging from your response you are probably either a kid or have no education


Eboschung said:
You type like a LT who got all of his experience playing halo. Shut your douche mouth and go help James plan the Hillary 2016 rock the vote campaign.

So are you saying those that stayed in the service for 20 years aren't owed their retirement? That's a benifit just like all of the other VA services.

Go take your meds before the nurse finds out you are playing on the Internet again.
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Ok professor so people are owed their retirement but not owed the GI Bill? They are both benifits of service. So explain the difference, enlighten me with your advanced education.

Saying that this dude owes anyone anything for paying taxes that eventually go into financing his education through the GI Bill is like saying that Apple executives owe me a debt of gratitude because I buy iProducts and one of their benifits is a 401k match or tuition reimbursement.

No body owes me anything I didn't earn. I don't get a gummit check, I don't get Medicare welfare or Obamacare.

Thank you for your service, even though I'm pretty sure it was on X-box.
 
Rotarywing said:
So you think anyone owe you something? I spent years in the Army and retired as a LT with plenty of experience doing "stuff" in other countries. Nobody owes me anything. It's a job, I did apply for it and made the choice. I was NOT drafted!!
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You retired as a LT???
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Because of this I decided to do an extra touch and go in the pattern today and burn an extra 450 gallons of Jet-A. :D
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And I bet that extra money you burned from the tax payers will probably do more damage to America than 10 AK-47 wielding malnourished dudes in, whatever country we are war with today.

Sadly you don't understand that our out of control government does WAY WAY more damage to our country than some ex goat farmer in the Mid East.
 
The personal attacks and opinions really ruin the value of this board at times.

TS, Middle Tennessee State has a good program. It's not without flaws, but I've been very happy here with my choice. The aircraft are nice, and the cost of living and area are nice. I Would guess about a third of the flight students here are prior military. The pro pilot degree is a door opener for any sort of pilot, airport operations, and airport management job. I would agree it is slightly limiting outside of aviation, but if you want to remain in the aviation industry it will serve as well as a business or management degree. In fact, most of the ops staff at BNA hold this degree. I'm not affiliated with the university in any way other than being a student, but feel free to pm me with any questions, I don't feel like digging through the bickering here.

Also, I would recommend busting out the ratings and degree, then heading to one of the big flight schools like aerosim in Florida. They will fly you like crazy til you get your hours. Then, with the state of the industry right now, a regional will snap you up in a heartbeat
 
Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm deciding currently between the following

First pick - Kent State University
Second pick - Ohio State University
Third - Eastern Kentucky University

Appreciate all the help and if anyone has any thought on the top three it'll be greatly appreciated. Kent State has the top rated aviation program out of all of them and I have a buddy who used to fly over there, says it's a nice place, only problem is most apartments I've been looking at are already booked :(
 
Have a few friends that went to Kent and liked it. I'm gonna guess Ohio State is probably the most expensive being a big 10 school.
 
Louisiana Tech University has a great program that has been around since the 50's. Also has flow through agreement with a regional airline. GI Bill covers full cost of tuition and flight training.
 
Firstly

As a former solider. Thank you for the time and sacrifice you have put in to serve. Secondly i personally like EKU even though I went to Devry to get my degree. I did not realize at the time that I could get any flight assistance whatsoever with the GI bill.

Secondly
Well I wont even get involved with some of the silly **** I have seen in this post

Best of luck and if all else fails look at MTSU. Good Program.
 
Imamerican said:
I'm not the man to gloat about being a Marine, I served and my nation paid me back with free college. I served voluntarily though, people are intitled to their opinion that's why the military fights for it haha.
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Well said. Back to your thread: are you married or have any other ties to any location? If you're single, please for the love of your future options stay that way until you get past your college and early career years. Men in general, and military guys in particular seem to get an urge to put a ring on something at every major life event. I always cautioned my guys against this, as it seemed to backfire on them and severely limit their options later. Once you're settled in a career or solid plan/path in life, go for it. Plant roots, build a foundation, etc - but get all the other stuff settled first. That's the very best advice I can give, as one guy to another.

James331 said:
Funny I gave the guy some good advice, but because I don't have this hero worship for anyone who joins the millitary you get bent out of shape.

Is it that much to ask that people thank private sector America for the opportunity and funding taken from them and given to the millitary?
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Not at all. But I don't see anyone with a chip on their shoulder for the MANY more people that have received help with their educations through other public and tax funds. Heck, some states offer free tuition just for being a resident. Does it make any sense at all for us to hate on students at those schools? No it doesn't. In fact, it would be fairly stupid to hate on anyone that took advantage of state funded education opportunities if they had the option to do so.

Many companies also provide tuition assistance to their employees. Most of the time none of the employees of these companies are given the option of whether they want their benefit money spent in this manner or not. And yet I've never heard any employee anywhere complaining about their company revenue being spent to fund someone's college education.

It's a job perq that is used as a recruiting incentive. Amazingly, it works for both civilian and military recruiting alike. Funny how that works.

By the way - kudos for the nuggets of advice. Backhanded as it was, it's still good info.
 
Geico266 said:
A real achiever. :no:
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Well it's not entirely impossible but would be extremely rare in the Army vs Navy / Marine LDO programs. Also, while battlefield promotions were reinstated a few years ago, I don't recall a single one that resulted in a commission.

There are plenty of former enlisted / warrants that go commission later on but to do it so late in their careers to retire as a LT? None that I ever met. I would think there would be an like a 6 yr ADSO with the commission as well. In that case one would have had to at least obtain the rank of CPT before separation.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Well it's not entirely impossible but would be extremely rare in the Army vs Navy / Marine LDO programs. Also, while battlefield promotions were reinstated a few years ago, I don't recall a single one that resulted in a commission.

There are plenty of former enlisted / warrants that go commission later on but to do it so late in their careers to retire as a LT? None that I ever met. I would think there would be an like a 6 yr ADSO with the commission as well. In that case one would have had to at least obtain the rank of CPT before separation.
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What about those commissioned types that spend a whole career and retire as an O-3? :dunno:
 
RotorAndWing said:
What about those commissioned types that spend a whole career and retire as an O-3? :dunno:
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I suppose that's mathematically possible but there would have to be a double pass over in there somewhere. These days you can't even make it to the first board because the military just issues "pink slips" on officers they want to kick out. So yeah, in the old days I suppose you could have an O-3 retained until retirement but I've never personally met one. That type of officer wouldn't exactly be head and shoulders above their peers.

The problem with the enlisted to commision route with retirement is that you have to have at least 10 yrs of service as an officer to get your officer pension. If you did 10 yrs of service and didn't at least get O-3, I'd say something was wrong. O-3 is pretty much garranteed when one becomes eligible.

Edit- Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if an O-3 without prior time could make it to 20yrs. I believe they would be boarded around 10 yrs in service or about 6 yrs in rank. If they don't get promoted at that 10 yr mark, they get another chance a year later. No promotion then will result in getting forced out. I know at the 18 yr mark you can be retained to 20 for retirement but in your example, I'm not sure how an O-3 could make it that far. :dunno:
 
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RotorAndWing said:
What about those commissioned types that spend a whole career and retire as an O-3? :dunno:
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Unless they had prior-E time, you can't normally make it to 20 years as a LT. If you don't get selected for O4, you get shown the door.
 
Just a note: nobody has mentioned that we who have and use the GI Bill, had to pay into the system. The GI Bill was/is not free and is not 100% taxpayer funded. It also does not cover everything.


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SPAJC said:
Just a note: nobody has mentioned that we who have and use the GI Bill, had to pay into the system. The GI Bill was/is not free and is not 100% taxpayer funded. It also does not cover everything.
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Previous versions required you to pay in while you were active duty, but the Post 9-11 GI Bill doesn't require you to pay into the system.

For the TS: Here's a college navigator that you can search by program or major. I didn't filter by area of the country, but a search for "Airline/Commercial/Professional Pilot and Flight Crew" turned up 124 colleges with that type of program. Link here: http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/

Also, in case you haven't seen this yet, the VA has a site that you can plug in a specific institution and get back a detailed rundown of what you can expect to get or pay for your education. It only includes things like tuition, books and housing, but it's good for comparing schools. Link here: https://department-of-veterans-affairs.github.io/gi-bill-comparison-tool/
 
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SPAJC said:
Just a note: nobody has mentioned that we who have and use the GI Bill, had to pay into the system. The GI Bill was/is not free and is not 100% taxpayer funded. It also does not cover everything.


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If you use The Montgomery GI Bill (CH30) then yes, you paid $100 per month for one year.

If you use the Post 9/11 GI Bill (CH33) then no, you don't pay a monetary amount into the system.

I'd say the vast majority of vets are using the Post 9/11 program because it pays far more for a higher learning degree flight program than the old MGIB. You'd be hard pressed to try and cap out on that since it pays what the maximum tuition fee of a state undergrad program. It's a hot topic these days because of the RW programs having students getting paid in some cases over 300K.
 
Hey guys, lots of great info here! I've spent the past 2-3 hours (and phone calls to the VA) trying to get a couple of questions answered, and I'm getting stuck...would appreciate your wisdom!

After taking two years to go back to school, plus another year to start a new career, I'm ready to jump back into flying (for pleasure).

My background
• Separated from the Army after 10 years (mid-2013)
• Former Army helicopter pilot (~2000 hrs, Commercial / Instrument)
• Fixed-wing: ASEL Private / Instrument (completed 90% of Commercial FW requirements, but due to PCS, didn't finish the last 10%)
• Used Post-9/11 GI Bill to get MBA (completed), but still have 19 months of Ch. 33 GI Bill eligibility remaining (confirmed with VA this morning)
• It's been 3 years since flying RW in the Army, 5 years since flying FW (as a civilian)

Goals
• Note: Not interested in getting a job flying, but still passionate about aviation and want to maximize VA benefits
• Finish FW Commercial, get CFI, CFI/I, Multi-engine, MEI (or whatever I can get GI Bill to pay for)

Constraints
• Full-time career --> Not going to move, not going to take extended leave for full-time programs
• Live in the Bay Area
• Not going to spend (much) $$$ out of pocket

Questions
• Loooong shot, but I have to ask: Are there any Institutions of Higher Learning (IHL) that allow for full-time enrollment, but as a distance (online) program + flying with a local partner FBO (this would maximize VA benefits while allowing me to conduct training locally).
• Or, does anyone know of Bay Area IHLs with a program that would enable the certificates I seek?
◦ San Jose State has a program, but it apparently only goes through Commercial (I have an email out to confirm)
◦ Embry-Riddle has an Oakland campus, but apparently they don't do flight instruction there (I have an email out to confirm)​
• If no to the above two questions, I've only found one (!!!) VA-approved Part 141 program in the Bay Area (Nice Air Aviation, San Jose)
◦ Does anyone have experience with them 1) at all, and 2) For GI Bill training?
◦ Does anyone know if there are other VA-approved Part 141 programs in the Bay Area that I'm just missing?​
• If my only option (given my constraints) is to use the $12,048.50 at Nice Air Aviation, can anyone confirm:
◦ Would I use 12 months of Ch. 33 eligibility? I've seen multiple answers to this, and this morning, the VA told me that it would only use 33 days of eligibility ($12,048.50/360 = ~33), but I've also seen people quote the VA that it would use 10-12 months of eligibility).
◦ Regardless to the answer for the above question (33 days or up to 12 months), I should still have some eligibility. If I partner with Nice Air Aviation and burn through the $12,048.50 before July 31st, can I use the rest of my eligibility starting August 1st, when the new academic year begins (maybe a prorated amount, given I'd have, worst case, at least 7 months of eligibility (19 months - 12 months = 7 months))?​

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
It seems as though the government taught you how to fly and that now you have a decent income in civilian life. The GI bill was introduced to help WW2 vets get a chance at a decent education so that they could join the middle class and lead a decent life. If you now have a decent income why don't you pay for your further flight instruction yourself? seems as though the govt. Has done quite a bit for you already.
 
Jim,
Thank you for taking the time to read through my question. I completely understand your perspective (my grandfather fought in WW II) and appreciate you sharing it.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
It seems as though the government taught you how to fly and that now you have a decent income in civilian life. The GI bill was introduced to help WW2 vets get a chance at a decent education so that they could join the middle class and lead a decent life. If you now have a decent income why don't you pay for your further flight instruction yourself? seems as though the govt. Has done quite a bit for you already.
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Other than the fact that if you want the GI bill post service, you actually have to pay in for it while you are in the service. He earned it and he doesn't owe anybody an explanation. I hope you find what you are looking for and thank you for your service!
 
He has earned his GI Bill entitlement. I earned mine and burned up every cent getting my certificates and what was left my BS degree. It's really none of your concern what any of us do with our entitlements.

JW619 another place to check would be a military aero club. Not sure what's around the bay area but I think Travis AFB has an aero club. Most of them have Part 141 programs that the VA requires.
 
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Guys, thanks for your support!

Mason, great question - I've always been passionate about teaching (and, as stated, flying), so I do plan on instructing a few weekends/month...not as a source of income, but as a way to stay in the cockpit and to share my love of aviation.
 
JW619 said:
Guys, thanks for your support!

Mason, great question - I've always been passionate about teaching (and, as stated, flying), so I do plan on instructing a few weekends/month...not as a source of income, but as a way to stay in the cockpit and to share my love of aviation.
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You, I like you, you are my kinda people.
 
Good luck with your training. I'm looking to do the same thing starting in August, so I'll be eager to hear what you dig up.

JW619 said:
◦ Regardless to the answer for the above question (33 days or up to 12 months), I should still have some eligibility. If I partner with Nice Air Aviation and burn through the $12,048.50 before July 31st, can I use the rest of my eligibility starting August 1st, when the new academic year begins (maybe a prorated amount, given I'd have, worst case, at least 7 months of eligibility (19 months - 12 months = 7 months))?​
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​
Based on what I've been told by one of the Part 141 schools here in Austin, the VA will provide the max annual benefits for each "phase" of flight training at the school, e.g. $12k towards instrument/commercial, another $12k towards the next phase, etc. I'm not sure what latitude the school has in defining the phases. The concerning part is that the VA has, on several occasions, only reimbursed for the training completed in the same fiscal year as when the student started a phase, and no additional money became available until the next phase. For example, a student completed $6k worth of training towards their commercial in FY15. The VA would not pay the remaining $6k towards the commercial in FY16. However, they would pay up to $12k towards the next phase of training completed in FY16.

This seems really bizarre when many flight schools aren't on a typical academic calendar, but it is hardly surprising when dealing with the government. This information is a single data point from several experiences at a local school, so your mileage may vary. I'm continuing to do my own research, but I plan to start my training after 7/31 for the reasons above.
 
mikeinbama said:
Other than the fact that if you want the GI bill post service, you actually have to pay in for it while you are in the service. He earned it and he doesn't owe anybody an explanation. I hope you find what you are looking for and thank you for your service!
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Pay for by serving at least 90 days after 9/11, yes. Pay for it as in out of pocket, no. That was the old GI Bill.
 
mikeinbama said:
Got two kids in the active Navy, paying money.
ETA, either way, its earned.
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Just saying not everyone pays money into GI Bill. Post 9/11 doesn't get paid into but Montgomery does.
 
I'm going to burn 6,000 pounds of gov contract Jet-A today in your honor.

I say go for whatever you desire, but have a plan! I paid for all my FW ratings out of pocket after buying an airplane. I am, however, a CFII RW thanks to Uncle Sam and James. Just an aside, I started as an 88M (truck driver) and I couldn't wait to separate from the Army. I had a good mentor who led me to the commissioned side of the Army and ultimately aviation. I've been flying 64s for six years with a couple trips to Afghanistan and I wouldn't trade one minute of my military flying experience. If you have any desire to continue to serve I would look into pilot positions. Just my thoughts. Good luck and thank you for serving.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
It seems as though the government taught you how to fly and that now you have a decent income in civilian life. The GI bill was introduced to help WW2 vets get a chance at a decent education so that they could join the middle class and lead a decent life. If you now have a decent income why don't you pay for your further flight instruction yourself? seems as though the govt. Has done quite a bit for you already.
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Just like the WW2 vets, I'm sure this fellow earned every dime. Wish I was as lucky. I was stuck with the lame VEAP deal. Wasn't worth the effort to deal with it.
 
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