Pilot shortage must be real...

They are paying $23,000 in bonuses to get to $50k.

"At $30/hr, 75 hrs/month, $3,000 training bonus, and $20,000 retention payments, first year first officers can expect to make at least $50,000 in their first year flying with Endeavor."
 
Wheels said:
They are paying $23,000 in bonuses to get to $50k.

"At $30/hr, 75 hrs/month, $3,000 training bonus, and $20,000 retention payments, first year first officers can expect to make at least $50,000 in their first year flying with Endeavor."
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So what happens in year #2? They still give you 20k in retention payments? What happens when they fill their ranks? Bye bye retention payments. The place I work for did the same. "Hey, we'll give you 22% to work here." They filled the need and bam. 22% pay cut the next year.
 
Wheels said:
They are paying $23,000 in bonuses to get to $50k.

"At $30/hr, 75 hrs/month, $3,000 training bonus, and $20,000 retention payments, first year first officers can expect to make at least $50,000 in their first year flying with Endeavor."
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I saw that after my post... I hope that truly happens, and it's contractural.
 
ircphoenix said:
So what happens in year #2? They still give you 20k in retention payments? What happens when they fill their ranks? Bye bye retention payments. The place I work for did the same. "Hey, we'll give you 22% to work here." They filled the need and bam. 22% pay cut the next year.
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My understanding is that there are $23k retention payments in the contract thru 2018. They are also projecting a 30 month upgrade. If they can deliver on that then if you hire on now you should be making Captain pay when the retention bonuses run out. If it works then it's probably the best deal on working for a regional that's been seen for a long time. If it doesn't work then they won't be the first regional to promise something that they couldn't deliver.
 
Wheels said:
My understanding is that there are $23k retention payments in the contract thru 2018. They are also projecting a 30 month upgrade. If they can deliver on that then if you hire on now you should be making Captain pay when the retention bonuses run out. If it works then it's probably the best deal on working for a regional that's been seen for a long time. If it doesn't work then they won't be the first regional to promise something that they couldn't deliver.
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Exactly my point. If it's not contractual....
 
ircphoenix said:
Well let's see... I spent $12-13k on my PPL at 42.3 hours in Southern California. To get to my 250 hours for commercial in a 172 at $150/hr would be another what.... 32-35k? Then from 250-1500 hrs, what do I do? And then get picked up by some regional at 1500 hours for less than minimum wage?

OR stick with my current gig which is 55-60k a year plus pension, deferred comp, and benefits. I would LOVE to fly. I can't afford to be in debt and broke for an indefinite period of time.
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I HOPE THE FOLLOWING IS HELPFUL AS A WAY TO CONSIDER ANOTHER OPTION.

A person with the confidence, physical fitness, sense of responsibility and mental toughness required to be a 121 pilot is well suited to many other profitable opportunities. Related to options outside the cockpit - The FORWARD PATH & details are often not as clear and the financial risk can be murky.

In 1981, Faced with concerns similar to yours - low income flight jobs. But it was what I really wanted to do. But we faced reality and decided to turn my current gig into an entrepreneurial enterprise, work it smart and expand every molecule. Out of the Navy I had been painting & hanging wallpaper in houses and offices, using every spare cent toward that 121 job when reality (a baby) hit.

We built a business adjusting to new opportunities like real estate &'equipment rental, painting roller coasters and power plants that are shut down in winter evolving to complete rehabilitation of industrial infrastructure projects.

we got the kids through college, debt free, married and independent. We are comfortable and expect to leave a trust fund to our heirs. A PA-32R300 & an RV6 in the hanger help me do what I love to do.
 
DavidWhite said:
I still fail to see the allure of flying for the regionals - majors? Sure. I'd do that in a heartbeat, but making ramen noodle money to sleep in a crappy hotel in a crappy city with a crappy schedule doesn't sound all that great to me.

Instead I fly little planes for decent paychecks with all the benefits of working for an airline, and a schedule that would only come with a whole bunch of seniority at an airline.

Also, we're hiring.
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It's good there are options. Personally, I really enjoy flying this particular jet. The hotels they put us up in are usually pretty nice, often the newest and nicest in the the place we're staying. And after the first year (which included them funding the training for my ATP and Type Rating) the pay isn't that bad and the benefits are proving to be pretty good. But I'd never try to convince someone one particular choice is the right one for them. There are way too many variables in that equation.
 
I wish I had screen-shot it to share... A couple of days ago, I saw an internet ad, begging for flight instructors at some puppy mill I had never heard of... they were offering free rooms and FOOD.

LOL... wow. I'm imagining some really awful cafeteria style stuff or PBJ sandwiches delivered in a little roach motel...

Note, the ad said nothing about SALARY... just a room and a sandwich... Hahaha... Pretty sure it was somewhere in Florida.
 
Velocity173 said:
What are the chances of a "Comair" in a few years and getting laid off? I've read after that deal there were hundreds out of a job and had problems getting rehired into other regionals.:(
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We always confirm our runway heading jives with our planned runway before pushing the go levers.
 
LDJones said:
We always confirm our runway heading jives with our planned runway before pushing the go levers.
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But does it look like a "rocky runway" in the near future or are these good times going to keep rolling?

Just seems like I've read a lot of stories with not just regionals but majors as well, where they're laid off, finally get another flying job and start at the bottom of seniority. To me, job security is more important than the money issue.
 
The future of any industry is uncertain at best. Although my career has been stable, I have witnessed many dislocations among people who were in the industry at the same time.

You never know what's going to happen. Jonesy has a shorter time horizon than, say, David. 30-40 years is a long time to make guesses about.
 
Painter1 said:
I HOPE THE FOLLOWING IS HELPFUL AS A WAY TO CONSIDER ANOTHER OPTION.

A person with the confidence, physical fitness, sense of responsibility and mental toughness required to be a 121 pilot is well suited to many other profitable opportunities. Related to options outside the cockpit - The FORWARD PATH & details are often not as clear and the financial risk can be murky.

In 1981, Faced with concerns similar to yours - low income flight jobs. But it was what I really wanted to do. But we faced reality and decided to turn my current gig into an entrepreneurial enterprise, work it smart and expand every molecule. Out of the Navy I had been painting & hanging wallpaper in houses and offices, using every spare cent toward that 121 job when reality (a baby) hit.

We built a business adjusting to new opportunities like real estate &'equipment rental, painting roller coasters and power plants that are shut down in winter evolving to complete rehabilitation of industrial infrastructure projects.

we got the kids through college, debt free, married and independent. We are comfortable and expect to leave a trust fund to our heirs. A PA-32R300 & an RV6 in the hanger help me do what I love to do.
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Good on ya! We need more folks like you in this country.

Thing with aviation is for some it's not a job, I get paid rather well with a good sched (not 121) and I really haven't worked a day in the last 5-6 years, even on my days off I fly my own plane. Only time it feels like work is when I'm doing paperwork or crap from upper management, but that is only like 5% of the time. I'm also debt free with a few toys and my own house.
 
Old buddy of mine just went from Republic to Jet Blue FO in a span of a week.
 
Velocity173 said:
Old buddy of mine just went from Republic to Jet Blue FO in a span of a week.
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Which only means he was fully qualified for a major to begin with... He settled a bit early.
 
Kritchlow said:
Which only means he was fully qualified for a major to begin with... He settled a bit early.
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Well I don't know about major hiring practices and I'm not sure about his total time. He's former military H-60, KC-135, C-130 so I'd imagine he's got quite a few hours.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well I don't know about major hiring practices and I'm not sure about his total time. He's former military H-60, KC-135, C-130 so I'd imagine he's got quite a few hours.
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Shoulda gone to atlas, make WAY more money, better QOL too
 
The best, IMO, is flying for a major (prefered legacy, but not required).

If the way to get there is through a regional, or whatever, press on.

Charter, corporate, fractional, medical.... It all depends on your company.
BUT... I will bet the schedule does not come close to 121. Why? Because we actually have a schedule. Corporate may have 28 days off per month. Problem is they don't know it until after it happens.
 
Coloradokevin said:
I love flying, but the opportunity cost to make a full-time career of it seems really high right now.
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I think that there are hundreds in that some boat. I took my thousands of hours, ATP, etc, out of the market 18 years ago because the career path for the airlines just seemed too dodgy. At that time, an FO was lucky to make $25K. At $50K I probably would have gone the airline route and they would have one more pilot. Now it would take $100K to drag me back into the industry. By the time they get desperate enough to pay that for a feral ATP, I will be drawing Social Security.
 
DavidWhite said:
I've got lots of buddies who fly for Atlas, don't know any who have ever been gone for more than a ten day trip
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10 days is still way too damn long to be gone, for the kind of money atlas pays. Plus, with as much DHL flying they have, it's just like being at a regional, somebody else will come in sooner or later and underbid your contract. The whole US DHL game is the played that way.
 
Good write-up in the Economist.
"With luck, the wisdom of the markets should prevail: fewer candidates means salaries will eventually have to rise, and more people will enter the field."
 
With luck. Markets don't always act rationally. Or they may act rationally... but it may not always be in the interest of the employees.

For example, this could just accelerate the push towards more and more automation, requiring fewer people in the loop.
 
Coloradokevin said:
I started flying with the intention of making a career of it, then stopped ...

I went to work in another industry (law enforcement), figuring I'd come back to flying when things improved in the industry.
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Yeah, "golden handcuffs" are present in many industries. Have you looked into local Aviation units? I spoke to a local PD chopper pilot at a fly-in once, and he said that most get into that position by being officers first, pilots second. You've even got a leg up on training.
 
DJTorrente said:
Yeah, "golden handcuffs" are present in many industries. Have you looked into local Aviation units? I spoke to a local PD chopper pilot at a fly-in once, and he said that most get into that position by being officers first, pilots second. You've even got a leg up on training.
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Lol... Been there and done that actually, and it was a great job. Eventually a promotion took me out of that seat!
 
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