On my soap box again

[flyingcheesehead]

I try to give the local stores business. Here's the problem - when I go, they don't have what I need and it's overpriced. They might be very willing to help and have information, but it doesn't help me if I can't get what I'm looking for.

BINGO!

I may hate Wal-Mart, but I shop there anyway - I know that I'll find what I'm looking for, it'll be the cheapest I can get it, and I know that I can park my truck around back. But it's the "find what I'm looking for" part that's important.

Local businesses could go a long way if they had a decent, full-featured internet presence, but the vast majority of local businesses have a "well, we're on the Internet" type of attitude - Their site shows a picture of the store, their address, etc. but they don't have any sort of system linked with their current inventory.

I'm also not real big on driving around in my car, so if I need to (for example) buy groceries, buy tools, and get a money order it's a heckuva lot easier to hit the nearest Wal-Mart Supercenter than it is to go to the grocery store, then the hardware store, then the bank.

Wal-mart actually does do some good things though - They are at the forefront of developing greener trucks, for one.

 

[Richard]

The past several weeks I've been repairing several boats. Woodworking, fiberglassing, engine work, and interior carpet and upholstery. Engine parts are readily found. I'm away from my home turf so I'm unfamiliar with what's here but you'd think San Diego would have what I need. WRONG!

Sure, I could go to the chandelries if I didn't mind paying through the nose (you know boat owners are filthy rich playboys). Even there they don't have a full stock. So guess where I'm getting my supplies?

That lil ol independant store back in my home town. Everything from abrasives to adhesives to resin to foam to specialty tools to upholstery material and more. They are much more than an autobody supply store and way less expensive than, say West Marine or Aircraft Spruce. They truly are a one stop shop. Air dried dimensional hardwood--YES, countless samples of tough fabrics for upholstery--YES...oh, you want a burn cert for that--CAN DO. And I don't even need my reseller's card.

I'd scoured from San Diego to Orange County to Long Beach and was disappointed. Like Ted said, they were willing to help but either they stock crap or everything is 2 weeks out...maybe, not sure they can get it.

Being here I'm disappointed that stores have caved to stocking only the lowest denominator. I guess the thinking is there are so many potential customers in the city that if all a store does is sell cheap Made in ROC 1/4-20 screws they'll make their margin.

Thankfully there is the little guy and especially my man back home.

 

[Richard]

I may hate Wal-Mart, but I shop there anyway - I know that I'll find what I'm looking for, it'll be the cheapest I can get it, and I know that I can park my truck around back. But it's the "find what I'm looking for" part that's important.

I needed some bronze wood screws but didn't want to spend hours driving. So I went to HD. Aha! They have what I need. Then I look at the box and see Made In China. Crap. So I bought a 100 count. I only needed 25 screws but it took me almost the entire box (14 screws left over) to satisfactorily sink those 25. #2 Phillips head would strip out or the threads were cut wrong, or some even snapped off. From that ONE box of 100 ct I saved 5 which don't even have the threads. They look like a phillips headed rivet. ha ha

The hardware stores aint even close to what they used to be.

Local businesses could go a long way if they had a decent, full-featured internet presence, but the vast majority of local businesses have a "well, we're on the Internet" type of attitude - Their site shows a picture of the store, their address, etc. but they don't have any sort of system linked with their current inventory.

I know exactly what you mean. That so ticks me off.

 

[gkainz]

I needed some bronze wood screws but didn't want to spend hours driving. So I went to HD. Aha! They have what I need. Then I look at the box and see Made In China. Crap. So I bought a 100 count. I only needed 25 screws but it took me almost the entire box (14 screws left over) to satisfactorily sink those 25. #2 Phillips head would strip out or the threads were cut wrong, or some even snapped off. From that ONE box of 100 ct I saved 5 which don't even have the threads. They look like a phillips headed rivet. ha ha

The hardware stores aint even close to what they used to be.

I know exactly what you mean. That so ticks me off.

all I can say is BTDT - ditto ... and it seriously torques me off ...

 

[Tom-D]

I needed some bronze wood screws but didn't want to spend hours driving. So I went to HD. Aha! They have what I need. Then I look at the box and see Made In China. Crap. So I bought a 100 count. I only needed 25 screws but it took me almost the entire box (14 screws left over) to satisfactorily sink those 25. #2 Phillips head would strip out or the threads were cut wrong, or some even snapped off. From that ONE box of 100 ct I saved 5 which don't even have the threads. They look like a phillips headed rivet. ha ha

The hardware stores aint even close to what they used to be.

I know exactly what you mean. That so ticks me off.

You got the good ones from China, try the ones made in India. the #2 phillips won't even fit into the heads. and the #1 is too small.

 

[Richard]

the #2 phillips won't even fit into the heads. and the #1 is too small.

Maybe they're metric.

 

[Tom-D]

Maybe they're metric.

Metric Phillips?

 

[SCCutler]

Metric Phillips?

ex-ACT-ly.

==

When I was with Bell & Howell, the Japanese dealers would send their service techs to California for training, and they'd have a budget of around $500.00 to buy hand tools at Sears- they said that the tools were better than anything they could buy in Japan.

 

[Tom-D]

ex-ACT-ly.

==

When I was with Bell & Howell, the Japanese dealers would send their service techs to California for training, and they'd have a budget of around $500.00 to buy hand tools at Sears- they said that the tools were better than anything they could buy in Japan.

When I worked the engine shop on base, the Jap/military would be hosted by NAS and the crews from their P-3s were amased at our tool boxes. they couldn't get their superiors to buy Snapon Tools

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

ex-ACT-ly.

==

When I was with Bell & Howell, the Japanese dealers would send their service techs to California for training, and they'd have a budget of around $500.00 to buy hand tools at Sears- they said that the tools were better than anything they could buy in Japan.

There's something to be said for having a ratchet that can also double as a hammer, a punch, a zombie-killer (just saw Zombieland, it was good) and a prybar; yet can still be used as a ratchet after the foregoing.

 

[Henning]

See, I don't get that thinking. For one, Harbor Freight has a lifetime guarantee on all hand tools....

Harbor Freight: 13 Piece Screwdriver Set: $5.99
Craftsman: 10 Piece Screwdriver Set: $14.99

You pay more for less screwdrivers, and they both have the same warranty. One breaks, its a simple drive to Harbor Freight to replace it. If a Craftsman screwdriver breaks, its a simple drive to Sears to fix it. So why pay more?

I don't get it.

I buy Snap On, I have several thousand dollars in tools that you can get at Harbor Freight for less than $200. As a person who makes a living with, and whose life (and the lives of the people I'm responsible for) often depends on on my tools working. Several issues come to light. First off tool quality and fit. When you sit there and spin that HF wrench on a soft semi rounded Chinese fastener, my Snap On will get a bite on it. When you try to put your HF socket on the recessed head bolts on my engines, you'll find the walls are so thick that you can't fit it into the recess, and after you spend 20 minutes and burn your fingers 3 times grinding it down to fit, you'll manage to get 2 nuts broke loose and then your socket will crack. My Snap On Flank Drive socket will fit and do the job. That's the benefit of good tools on a boat. If I'm working in a shop getting flat rate, or as an independent, I typically will make between $70 & $100 an hour because I can usually beat the book by a good margin. If you break a HF (or Craftsman) tool, yes, it has a lifetime warranty, you drive down to the store and exchange it. That tool just cost you $70-$100 on the time you lost. Same if you don't have the tool and need to go buy it. If I'm working on something and break a S-O tool (rare, but occasionally happens) or I find I need a tool that I don't have, I call my Snap On guy (or gal) and tell him what I need. I now put that job off to the side and start working on another until the critical tool arrives and I can continue on the other job with no down time. If I have no money in my pocket at the moment, he'll put it on my tab with no interest. Heck, I can roll into any city or town throughout the developed world basically and take a job as a mechanic with no tools, call the Snap On man, and he'll finance me the set I need delivered that day. When I leave town, he'll often even buy them back from me!!! See if Harbor Freight will buy their tools back from you....

There is also another lesson of cheap tools I have learned, cheap tools cost you skin. They are much more prone to slipping and causing busted knuckles.

There is a reason there are consumer grade tools and professional grade tools. The average consumer cannot justify buying professional grade tools, and a professional cannot justify buying consumer grade tools. Luckily my current boss understands this so I have recently made the Snap On man quite happy getting the boats tool set together.

 

[Henning]

The past several weeks I've been repairing several boats. Woodworking, fiberglassing, engine work, and interior carpet and upholstery. Engine parts are readily found. I'm away from my home turf so I'm unfamiliar with what's here but you'd think San Diego would have what I need. WRONG!

Sure, I could go to the chandelries if I didn't mind paying through the nose (you know boat owners are filthy rich playboys). Even there they don't have a full stock. So guess where I'm getting my supplies?

That lil ol independant store back in my home town. Everything from abrasives to adhesives to resin to foam to specialty tools to upholstery material and more. They are much more than an autobody supply store and way less expensive than, say West Marine or Aircraft Spruce. They truly are a one stop shop. Air dried dimensional hardwood--YES, countless samples of tough fabrics for upholstery--YES...oh, you want a burn cert for that--CAN DO. And I don't even need my reseller's card.

I'd scoured from San Diego to Orange County to Long Beach and was disappointed. Like Ted said, they were willing to help but either they stock crap or everything is 2 weeks out...maybe, not sure they can get it.

Being here I'm disappointed that stores have caved to stocking only the lowest denominator. I guess the thinking is there are so many potential customers in the city that if all a store does is sell cheap Made in ROC 1/4-20 screws they'll make their margin.

Thankfully there is the little guy and especially my man back home.

You think you have it bad in SoCal?!?!?! Come to Aus mate, everything I get has to be shipped from there. My FedEx and Air Freight bill on this refit is going to be around a half a million dollars by the time it's finished...

 

[SCCutler]

There is also another lesson of cheap tools I have learned, cheap tools cost you skin. They are much more prone to slipping and causing busted knuckles.

This point, alone, makes good tools worth buying. The point about good sockets having thinner walls is valid and powerful as well.

 

[Richard]

This point, alone, makes good tools worth buying. The point about good sockets having thinner walls is valid and powerful as well.

I don't buy cheap tools. Maybe if I need a one-time use tool that commits suicide to be tossed at the end of that job. But a cheap tool costs so much in time lost, breaking, breaking parts, extra time to correct to an acceptable standard, and just the sheer aggravation. Plus the job is completed as a half-ass, loose tolerance hack job.

Anyone who walks onto a job with Chicago, HF, or Jet will be laughed at, mocked, branded as a hack, and finally scorned. Pride of workmanship extends to pride in ownership of the best you can afford. The biggest factor is as Henning mentioned: sometimes lives depend on it. I can say that is quite literally true.

 

[Henning]

I don't buy cheap tools. Maybe if I need a one-time use tool that commits suicide to be tossed at the end of that job. But a cheap tool costs so much in time lost, breaking, breaking parts, extra time to correct to an acceptable standard, and just the sheer aggravation. Plus the job is completed as a half-ass, loose tolerance hack job.

Anyone who walks onto a job with Chicago, HF, or Jet will be laughed at, mocked, branded as a hack, and finally scorned. Pride of workmanship extends to pride in ownership of the best you can afford. The biggest factor is as Henning mentioned: sometimes lives depend on it. I can say that is quite literally true.

No sir, they are not on my job sites long enough for that to occur, I run them off because they are going to waste time and break things.