On my soap box again

[fgcason]

open the actual shoe box and look inside the shoes for the country of origin

Several years ago when I was stupid, I worked for an electronics company. (I'll never work in electronics/computers again but that's another story for another day) When they stuffed the finished product in the box for shipping, the finished case said 'made in usa. assembled in usa.' I called BS on that and they explained it to me. That label was for the cheap case which was actually made in the usa and totally honest. All the guts inside were made in taiwan, japan, korea, china, mexico, etc and those were labeled as made in the appropriate country thus totally honest also..however those labels were inside the case where the consumer would never see it unless they invalidated the warranty by opening the case. Since the case also said assembled in usa, it didn't violate any trade rules about stating where things came from. If the consumer assumed, that was their misinterpretation of wording and a phone call to the company's toll free number would give them the correct information on where all the internal parts were made. I then started looking at things I owned that were made in USA and the guts weren't made here.

What do you do? Handmake everything yourself from scratch from materials you find in your back yard? Even then, the garden dirt is probably made in vietnam.

 

[Trapper John]

American business is all about lowering expectation to meet the lowest price point. The thinking here is that cheaper is always equal to better.

That would tend to explain Walmart, wouldn't it? "Save money, live better." No reference to quality there.

They are even hawking their own brand of towels on TV that are designed to dry 1/3 faster than normal towels. I'm pretty sure they're counting on the fact they dry faster because they weigh less is going to go right over most customers' heads.


Trapper John

 

[flyersfan31]

The biggest thing you can do to help our economy is to use local services and stores. That does not mean going to local big box store!! use the locally owned business and the profits that are made there are spent there.

+1000

People talk one way, and act another. There's a lot of blather about buy American, but then they do all their shopping at WalMart because the prices are rock bottom. Yes, WalMart does stock some stuff made in America, and they make sure you can see that.

My 5 year old made the observation the other day. She asked, "Daddy, why is everything made in China?" All of her stuffed animals, toys, even books are stamped Made in China. We've chased everything to the lowest-production cost country, regardless of quality.

 

[Tom-D]

+1000

People talk one way, and act another. There's a lot of blather about buy American, but then they do all their shopping at WalMart because the prices are rock bottom. Yes, WalMart does stock some stuff made in America, and they make sure you can see that.

My 5 year old made the observation the other day. She asked, "Daddy, why is everything made in China?" All of her stuffed animals, toys, even books are stamped Made in China. We've chased everything to the lowest-production cost country, regardless of quality.

BUT when the US government place an import TAX on the goods from other nations the US manufacturers raise their prices to match.

they see it as a license to steal.

 

[Lawreston]

The biggest thing you can do to help our economy is to use local services and stores. That does not mean going to local big box store!! use the locally owned business and the profits that are made there are spent there.

AMEN, a thousand times! When I started my camera store in 1977 there was one other camera and gift shop in town. I having been the camera dept. buyer for a chain of up to 30 stores had learned from a master merchandising boss who had five stores when I joined the company. He merged with a bigger company and I started my own operation, small that it was. I had to compete with my former employer, but I had something other than the "all clerks - no mavens" scenario common to the Big Box concept which was spreading across the country. When Wally-World came there was a real challenge, though it seemed they often sent people to me for the knowledge. Converting to the sale was the bigger challenge. But I survived.

After 27 years I sold the store after surviving Wally-World, Service Merchandise(into which my former employer has been absorbed), and Target.
Slightly less than four years later my old store closed. Though I got out at the right time I surmise that the late 2007 arrival of Best Buy, just across the river, didn't help the sales figures for my successors.

I had dealt with three generations of numerous families. They "bought local."
How sad that the 3rd generation -- high schoolers or younger back then -- now only have the Big Boxes to shop local where there are "all clerks - no mavens." Recently I was mingling amongst the crowd of tourists coming off the Sunday tour boat to get their lobster/clam dinners on the dock at Five Islands-Georgetown. (I was passing out my business card)
One lady said, "Hey, you're the camera man. I graduated from Bowdoin College in 1993 and yours was the only place I could get straight answers to my questions. I live in Colorado now but we're vacationing in Boothbay Harbor and decided to take the Bay Tour." It's nice to be remembered for something other than lowest price.

 

[Lawreston]

New Balance Athletic Shoes makes some of its shoes in the United States and some in China.-Rich

New Balance owns five factories in the United States: two in Massachusetts (Boston and Lawrence), and three in Maine (Norridgewock, Skowhegan, and Norway)
[The above came from Wikipedia]
And over in Richmond, Maine there is a huge one-level building which used to be a New Balance factory. Since New Balance relocated its operation to China the Town of Richmond -- settled by Russian immigrants fleeing the home country's Revolution 100 years ago -- has been trying to find an appropriate use for the gargantuan building.

HR

 

[steingar]

One of the greatest ironies of our age is Harley Davidson, the quintessential American company, makes more money on product merchandizing than the manufacturing of motorcycles, for which it's famous. What makes this situation wonderfully ironic is that the vast majority of the "merchandise" that Harley Davidson sells is itself manufactured overseas.

 

[Trapper John]

One of the greatest ironies of our age is Harley Davidson, the quintessential American company, makes more money on product merchandizing than the manufacturing of motorcycles, for which it's famous. What makes this situation wonderfully ironic is that the vast majority of the "merchandise" that Harley Davidson sells is itself manufactured overseas.

Not only that, Harley Davidson is trying to make a $700 million TALF deal. Nothing more American than taxpayers bailing out a company that sells a faux-badass lifestyle to accountants and dentists!


Trapper John

 

[Lawreston]

Not only that, Harley Davidson is trying to make a $700 million TALF deal. Nothing more American than taxpayers bailing out a company that sells a faux-badass lifestyle to accountants and dentists!
Trapper John

Here! Here! Been riding on them since late 1945. (Photo is from a few years ago)

HR

 

[steingar]

Wasn't trying to bash Harley motorcycles, low hanging fruit that they are. I just thought it wonderfully ironic about the company.

 

[Everskyward]

Wal-Mart must've picked all the low hanging fruit already because they have come to my little town. When I first heard this I laughed because there doesn't seem to be the population out here to support a Wal-Mart. A couple weeks ago I paid it a visit. Not only is it a Wal-Mart, it's a SUPER Wal-Mart which is as big as anything you would find in Denver. This is in a town with a population of less than 2,000. The unincorporated area of the county where I live has a bit more but the population density is still very low. I have to say it's a beautiful new store but there were more employees than customers when I was there, with everyone cheerfully trying to help. Here's the thing. This area has always had a problem with a lack of businesses and tax base. If you wanted to buy something other than groceries or hardware you had to drive 15-20 miles into Parker or Castle Rock. Sure there are a few boutique-type stores in town but that's about it. There is also a lack of local job opportunities. So we'll see what happens with Wal-Mart. I will probably go there in lieu of driving into the metro area if I'm not headed in that direction already.

 

[Ted]

I try to give the local stores business. Here's the problem - when I go, they don't have what I need and it's overpriced. They might be very willing to help and have information, but it doesn't help me if I can't get what I'm looking for.

I generally just end up going to Lowes, WalMart, or Tractor Supply Company (the three stores I buy most of my goods at) because they consistently have what I'm looking for. It's not a valuable use of my time to be wandering around to the various local shops to find the one that has what I need, especially when the big stores are closer to my house.

 

[alaskaflyer]

I Here's the problem - when I go, they don't have what I need

Big problem I agree.

...and it's overpriced.

Heh. What if the others are underpriced? Not to jack the thread but the same is true of organic/locally-grown food. You have to pay to play.

 

[Ghery]

Service Merchandise

Now there's a chain I haven't heard of in a long time. A long time.

 

[Ted]

Heh. What if the others are underpriced? Not to jack the thread but the same is true of organic/locally-grown food. You have to pay to play.

With the organic food, however, you can argue that you're getting a superior product for your additional money. What I'm talking about is I go to the local hardware store for a grade 8 bolt. All they have are el cheapo bolts, and they cost more than the grade 8 bolts at Lowes. Guess why I go buy my bolts at Lowes.

 

[Bob Noel]

Around here the home depot and lowes stuff is junk.

They sell bathroom sinks without overflows

They sell faucets with kinks in the copper tubing

They sell special versions of name-brand products (e.g., water heaters)
that are built with inferior materials.

They sell hardwood moulding that is so thin that it warps and cups.

 

[etsisk]

One of the greatest ironies of our age is Harley Davidson, the quintessential American company, makes more money on product merchandizing than the manufacturing of motorcycles, for which it's famous. What makes this situation wonderfully ironic is that the vast majority of the "merchandise" that Harley Davidson sells is itself manufactured overseas.

And a large number of parts (forks, carbs, springs, shocks, electronics) for the motorcycles, themselves, are made overseas, as well - not to mention the accessory parts... American Made? Um, don't think so. I'll still ride 'em, because I like them - 350,000 miles on 'em, so far - but I'm not buying the shtick they're promoting. Much less going along with some RUB calling me "bro". I am a bit more tolerant of that last part, though. I'd like to think I've learned something over the years.

 

[SkyHog]

I buy cheap crap. It lasts long enough that when it wears out and I have to buy a replacement, I've already gotten the use out of it that I expected.

For example: Harbor Freight is my favorite tool store. You can be hoity toity and tell me that Craftsman makes better tools, and their lifetime warranty sure is spiffy (FWIW, Greatneck also has a lifetime warranty and their tools are a lot cheaper), but when I need a screwdriver, or a socket, it doesn't make sense to spend 10 times as much for a product that does the exact same job.

I buy primarily store brand items. Personally, I found Panburger Partner to taste better than Hamburger Helper, and it is 1/2 the price. I do not buy dealer parts for my car, because Autozone is cheaper, and its the same freaking part.

I'm honest: I buy cheap, and I don't care what country it comes from. I would care, but in reality, somehow its probably filtered through to a country other than the US anyway. Whatever.

 

[RJM62]

Around here the home depot and lowes stuff is junk.

They sell bathroom sinks without overflows

They sell faucets with kinks in the copper tubing

They sell special versions of name-brand products (e.g., water heaters)
that are built with inferior materials.

They sell hardwood moulding that is so thin that it warps and cups.

I find them notorious for having only some of the items needed to complete a job. I don't think I've ever gone into Home Depot and walked out with everything I needed.

Most recently, I needed some 4-gauge wire and associated hardware to hook up a power inverter in a mobile unit. Home Depot had the wire and the buss (stud-type), but not the ring terminals or grommets. Why stock the buss without also stocking the ring terminals?

-Rich

 

[oldShar]

I buy cheap crap. It lasts long enough that when it wears out and I have to buy a replacement, I've already gotten the use out of it that I expected.

I buy primarily store brand items. Personally, I found Panburger Partner to taste better than Hamburger Helper, and it is 1/2 the price. I do not buy dealer parts for my car, because Autozone is cheaper, and its the same freaking part.

I'm honest: I buy cheap, and I don't care what country it comes from. I would care, but in reality, somehow its probably filtered through to a country other than the US anyway. Whatever.

Too bad the FAA won't allow you to do the same thing

 

[alaskaflyer]

What is unarguable is that in the US there are more Nicks than Richards. You get the system you pay for.

 

[alaskaflyer]

With the organic food, however, you can argue that you're getting a superior product for your additional money. What I'm talking about is I go to the local hardware store for a grade 8 bolt. All they have are el cheapo bolts, and they cost more than the grade 8 bolts at Lowes. Guess why I go buy my bolts at Lowes.

Ah, but I'm guessing you don't sit around the kitchen table moaning about how "theys tuk our jobs" while surrounded by an entire house full of items manufactured overseas. Unlike some people.

 

[Trapper John]

Personally, I found Panburger Partner to taste better than Hamburger Helper, and it is 1/2 the price.

Real tomato ketchup, Eddie?
Oh, nothing but the best.


Trapper John

 

[wsuffa]

I find them notorious for having only some of the items needed to complete a job. I don't think I've ever gone into Home Depot and walked out with everything I needed.

Most recently, I needed some 4-gauge wire and associated hardware to hook up a power inverter in a mobile unit. Home Depot had the wire and the buss (stud-type), but not the ring terminals or grommets. Why stock the buss without also stocking the ring terminals?

-Rich

I h8 Home Depot.

 

[Ted]

Ah, but I'm guessing you don't sit around the kitchen table moaning about how "theys tuk our jobs" while surrounded by an entire house full of items manufactured overseas. Unlike some people.

Sure don't. But I do buy organic for some things.

I also buy from Harbor Freight for some things, like tools that I don't use often. For tools that I do use often, it makes sense to buy higher quality. Some tools from Harbor Freight don't last for more than one or two uses. If all I need is one or two uses, that's fine. If I expect to use the tool for years to come, buy something that's going to last.

 

[mantakos]

... I had something other than the "all clerks - no mavens" scenario common to the Big Box concept which was spreading across the country...

I see people in Best Buy talking to the salespeople, I have to walk away, it's difficult to listen to.

But while a local camera store can provide us with a local expert we can talk to, the Internet now provides us with far greater ability to research products than we ever had before. With a little effort, for big dollar purchases that warrant it, we can get all our questions answered, and talk to 27 people who bought that thing, and 32 people who bought the one it competes with.

There are some rare gems out there, but the "collective" wisdom of an internet full of camera nerds, or car nerds, or airplane nerds, or whatever, provides a greater resource than I ever typically found in the little stores.
-harry

 

[SkyHog]

Sure don't. But I do buy organic for some things.

I also buy from Harbor Freight for some things, like tools that I don't use often. For tools that I do use often, it makes sense to buy higher quality. Some tools from Harbor Freight don't last for more than one or two uses. If all I need is one or two uses, that's fine. If I expect to use the tool for years to come, buy something that's going to last.

See, I don't get that thinking. For one, Harbor Freight has a lifetime guarantee on all hand tools....

Harbor Freight: 13 Piece Screwdriver Set: $5.99
Craftsman: 10 Piece Screwdriver Set: $14.99

You pay more for less screwdrivers, and they both have the same warranty. One breaks, its a simple drive to Harbor Freight to replace it. If a Craftsman screwdriver breaks, its a simple drive to Sears to fix it. So why pay more?

I don't get it.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Ah, but I'm guessing you don't sit around the kitchen table moaning about how "theys tuk our jobs" while surrounded by an entire house full of items manufactured overseas. Unlike some people.

Spell how it's said, will ya? "Dey tuk awr jawbs!"

In some parts of the country, you really have to emphasize the "r" in "awr."

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I see people in Best Buy talking to the salespeople, I have to walk away, it's difficult to listen to.

But while a local camera store can provide us with a local expert we can talk to, the Internet now provides us with far greater ability to research products than we ever had before. With a little effort, for big dollar purchases that warrant it, we can get all our questions answered, and talk to 27 people who bought that thing, and 32 people who bought the one it competes with.

There are some rare gems out there, but the "collective" wisdom of an internet full of camera nerds, or car nerds, or airplane nerds, or whatever, provides a greater resource than I ever typically found in the little stores.
-harry

That's an excellent point. I wonder what has had more of an impact on small businesses: the box stores, or the internet?

 

[Gary]

You pay more for less screwdrivers, and they both have the same warranty. One breaks, its a simple drive to Harbor Freight to replace it. If a Craftsman screwdriver breaks, its a simple drive to Sears to fix it. So why pay more?

I don't get it.

Seems I often end up using a tool in a way that was unintended. I've used screwdrivers as chisels, scrapers, punches, pry bars and can openers. The cheap ones are truly one time use, and they usually fail at anything else. A good quality tool is... flexible(?) in it's use. In the long run, it's far cheaper to pay for the upfront quality.

Gary

 

[Cap'n Jack]

See, I don't get that thinking. For one, Harbor Freight has a lifetime guarantee on all hand tools....

Harbor Freight: 13 Piece Screwdriver Set: $5.99
Craftsman: 10 Piece Screwdriver Set: $14.99

You pay more for less screwdrivers, and they both have the same warranty. One breaks, its a simple drive to Harbor Freight to replace it. If a Craftsman screwdriver breaks, its a simple drive to Sears to fix it. So why pay more?

I don't get it.

I got scars on my hand from cheap tools that broke, even when used for their intended purpose. When a tool breaks, there isn't always a store that will give you a replacement nearby.

A good tool is a friend for life that you can always count on to get the job done, no matter where you are or what the weather is. If it's a tool I intend to keep, I'll buy the Snap-on because it's likely I'll never buy another one. Unless I lose it.

I feel bad when I lose a good tool...

 

[Ted]

Cheap screwdriver: $1
Good screwdriver: $5

Price of gas to drive back to Harbor Freight to get a replacement for the $1 screwdriver the first time it breaks: $5.

So, the first time it breaks, you've spent more than $5 on your screwdriver. Or, you could not have a local Harbor Freight (I didn't up until a year ago).

I have a Sears rachet that I've used, abused, misued, and taken in for two replacements. I've also bought Harbor Frieght rachets and breaker bars that have failed on the FIRST use, without even finishing the job. At that point I had to return it, get a refund, and then go buy the Sears tool. No matter how cheap a tool is, it's worthless if it doesn't get the job done. That's why it makes sense to buy Sears, Snap-On, etc. in SOME cases. As I said, sometimes I buy Craftsman, sometimes I buy Harbor Freight.

 

[alaskaflyer]

See, I don't get that thinking. For one, Harbor Freight has a lifetime guarantee on all hand tools....

Harbor Freight: 13 Piece Screwdriver Set: $5.99
Craftsman: 10 Piece Screwdriver Set: $14.99

You pay more for less screwdrivers, and they both have the same warranty. One breaks, its a simple drive to Harbor Freight to replace it. If a Craftsman screwdriver breaks, its a simple drive to Sears to fix it. So why pay more?

I don't get it.

Well, for one thing, my drive is 127 miles. One way

 

[Trapper John]

I got scars on my hand from cheap tools that broke, even when used for their intended purpose. When a tool breaks, there isn't always a store that will give you a replacement nearby.

Absolutely, and the cheap stuff invariably breaks after store hours on Saturday or Sunday night...

A good tool is a friend for life that you can always count on to get the job done, no matter where you are or what the weather is. If it's a tool I intend to keep, I'll buy the Snap-on because it's likely I'll never buy another one. Unless I lose it.

Quality is worth paying for. Snap-on stuff is really really nice, but too rich for my blood.


Trapper John

 

[gkainz]

I find them notorious for having only some of the items needed to complete a job. I don't think I've ever gone into Home Depot and walked out with everything I needed.

Most recently, I needed some 4-gauge wire and associated hardware to hook up a power inverter in a mobile unit. Home Depot had the wire and the buss (stud-type), but not the ring terminals or grommets. Why stock the buss without also stocking the ring terminals?

Wow, I thought it was just me! darn near every project I do requires a stop at Home Despot, Lowes and Ace Hardware to get everything I need. I've tried mixing up the order of the stores I go to and still have the same results.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Quality is worth paying for. Snap-on stuff is really really nice, but too rich for my blood.
Trapper John

Same here- that's why I don't have a lot of tools!

 

[RotorAndWing]

I got scars on my hand from cheap tools that broke, even when used for their intended purpose. When a tool breaks, there isn't always a store that will give you a replacement nearby.

A good tool is a friend for life that you can always count on to get the job done, no matter where you are or what the weather is. If it's a tool I intend to keep, I'll buy the Snap-on because it's likely I'll never buy another one. Unless I lose it.

I feel bad when I lose a good tool...

You don't find professionals using cheap tools and there's a reason. Cheap tools are often not as exact, poorly made and will not stand up to everyday work. My toolbox is filled with Craftsman Professional and Snap-On tools, some of them many years old.

I do buy some cheap tools to keep around as "suicide tools". When you have a job that requires a wrench or socket that must be modified for the task, take out a suicide tool and die grinder or welder. They are good for that.

 

[silver-eagle]

I try to support local businesses like stores, restaurants and hardware stores. I do the chain stores when I've already proven before I can't get what I need elsewhere. I avoid wally world because I HATE their "HOSTILE TAKE OVER" attitude.
If I can buy American, I do.

 

[Henning]

I just installed a medical exam table in a small office at 3MY. It was made by a large American Medical Furniture producer in West Virginia, and it was a piece of crap. The holes in the structural steel were 3mms or so off from the ferrules in the top, so I had to redrill the steel. $800 bucks.

The problem is, we make c_ap in the USA, our stuff is too pricey (tort cost)and so I'm beginning to think the solution is to MOVE OUT of the USA.

Where you going that's any better? Europe you can get better products, but they're expensive as hell. Your medical practice there would not support flying a Seneca II (maybe a glider) and it's likely you wouldn't pass the medical. Most of the rest of the world you don't get anything unless you import it from the USA or Europe. Heck, most products produced in third world countries even aren't available in them! Japan is nearly insane expensive, and China is intolerably restrictive.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

America has lost it's way when it comes to business. If one wants to have a successful business it requires attention to detail, good business practices and of course customer satisfaction. The Japanese learned this decades ago.

And they learned it, ironically enough, from an American.