Oil filler door repair


check out the thickness to do this.:)
 
the cowling on my Bonanza has spot welds....:D

btw....it ain't soldered. :lol:
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You can friction stir weld at home if you are determined enough.

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Did ya notice? even he had what looks to be about 3/8th inch material. How thick is this door again? OBTW, these latches are stainless steel. try to friction weld two dissimilar metals.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
the cowling on my Bonanza has spot welds....:D

btw....it ain't soldered. :lol:
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do you really think the OP has that kind of equipment? OBTW obtaining a certifiable spot weld on aluminum in the field is near impossible. And again you can't spot weld two different metals.
 
He wasn't trying to weld the latch to the door. He was proposing welding the two halves of a broken latch together. Still not really an option but not a dissimilar metal problem.
 
I still say the easiest method of a legal repair is to replace the door/latch assembly with one from a salvage yard.
 
flyingron said:
He wasn't trying to weld the latch to the door. He was proposing welding the two halves of a broken latch together. Still not really an option but not a dissimilar metal problem.
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What's broke is the spring, try welding a spring.

read the first sentence in the first post.
 
Tom-D said:
do you really think the OP has that kind of equipment? OBTW obtaining a certifiable spot weld on aluminum in the field is near impossible. And again you can't spot weld two different metals.
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Is it required to get your spot weld certified on a minor repair? What is a "certified" weld?
 
Joshuajayg said:
Is it required to get your spot weld certified on a minor repair? What is a "certified" weld?
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The usage of spot welds in GA in the field is so rare that no one has ever considered it. Remember welding aircraft parts is normally a major repair, requiring a 337 field approval. Even If the FSDO had approved the repair, I don't believe I would return it to service.
 
Tom-D said:
The usage of spot welds in GA in the field is so rare that no one has ever considered it.
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Doubtful that no one had ever considered it.

Tom-D said:
Remember welding aircraft parts is normally a major repair,
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But not always.

I don't see non structural repairs such as repairing a Bonanza cowling spot weld that let loose listed in 43 appendix A (b).

"Repairs to the following parts of an airframe and repairs of the following types, involving the strengthening, reinforcing, splicing, and manufacturing of primary structural members or their replacement, when replacement is by fabrication such as riveting or welding, are airframe major repairs."
 
Joshuajayg said:
Doubtful that no one had ever considered it.



But not always.

I don't see non structural repairs such as repairing a Bonanza cowling spot weld that let loose listed in 43 appendix A (b).

"Repairs to the following parts of an airframe and repairs of the following types, involving the strengthening, reinforcing, splicing, and manufacturing of primary structural members or their replacement, when replacement is by fabrication such as riveting or welding, are airframe major repairs."
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People consider all kinds of weird stuff, getting it approved is another thing. I don't see anyone jumping up stating they have approval as a shop practice to do spot welding in the field.

That's great, spot welding a Bo's cowling, Find some one to return it to service. We have specific methods that are acceptable to the administrator, show me one for spot welding the cowl.
 
OBTW, I have a ATA for welding and was at one time certified as a nukey boiler welder in all positions. (Both pipe and plate) Had to be to weld in the refinery.
 
Tom-D said:
. We have specific methods that are acceptable to the administrator, show me one for spot welding the cowl.
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AC43.13-1B specifically calls out spot welding as a practice used. If a mechanic has the knowledge on how to use a spot welder on aluminum, there is no reason to say it is not acceptable to the administrator.

We have a spot welder in our shop which belongs to the IA. It would be natural to assume he uses it to repair aircraft and not simply as a paperweight.
 
Tom-D said:
Did ya notice? even he had what looks to be about 3/8th inch material. How thick is this door again? OBTW, these latches are stainless steel. try to friction weld two dissimilar metals.
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According to this reference, 0.03 - 0.08 inch thickness sheet has been spin welded
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_ce.../publications/media/friction_stir_welding.pdf
"Saito et al. 85 studied same metal FSW of Mg-6Al-2Ca sheet in the 0.03-0.08 in. thickness range." I've seen similar thickness for other aluminum but I can't find the citation quickly.

Dissimilar metals can be friction welded:
"Another advantage of friction welding is that it allows dissimilar materials to be joined. This is particularly useful in aerospace, where it is used to join lightweight aluminum stock to high-strength steels. Normally the wide difference in melting points of the two materials would make it impossible to weld using traditional techniques, and would require some sort of mechanical connection. Friction welding provides a "full strength" bond with no additional weight. Other common uses for these sorts of bi-metal joins is in the nuclear industry, where copper-steel joints are common in the reactor cooling systems; and in the transport of cryogenic fluids, where friction welding has been used to join aluminum alloys to stainless steels and high-nickel-alloy materials for cryogenic-fluid piping and containment vessels."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_stir_welding

See also:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924013606011332
http://www.ijetae.com/files/Volume2Issue7/IJETAE_0712_37.pdf
 
Cap'n Jack said:
According to this reference, 0.03 - 0.08 inch thickness sheet has been spin welded
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_ce.../publications/media/friction_stir_welding.pdf
"Saito et al. 85 studied same metal FSW of Mg-6Al-2Ca sheet in the 0.03-0.08 in. thickness range." I've seen similar thickness for other aluminum but I can't find the citation quickly.

Dissimilar metals can be friction welded:
"Another advantage of friction welding is that it allows dissimilar materials to be joined. This is particularly useful in aerospace, where it is used to join lightweight aluminum stock to high-strength steels. Normally the wide difference in melting points of the two materials would make it impossible to weld using traditional techniques, and would require some sort of mechanical connection. Friction welding provides a "full strength" bond with no additional weight. Other common uses for these sorts of bi-metal joins is in the nuclear industry, where copper-steel joints are common in the reactor cooling systems; and in the transport of cryogenic fluids, where friction welding has been used to join aluminum alloys to stainless steels and high-nickel-alloy materials for cryogenic-fluid piping and containment vessels."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_stir_welding

See also:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924013606011332
http://www.ijetae.com/files/Volume2Issue7/IJETAE_0712_37.pdf
Click to expand...

I was about to post the same. Cool stuff. iMac cases are welded by friction stir welding too.
 
Tom-D said:
what ever
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Yeah, I hadn't actually heard of stir welding till now. Was thinking more of spin welding;
Spin welding is a friction welding technique in which the parts to be welded are heated by friction. The heat may be generated by turning on a lathe, drill press, or milling machine, where one part is driven by the chuck, and the other is held stationary with the spinning part driven against it. This is continued until the heat of friction between the parts reaches a sufficient level for the parts to weld. The stationary part is then released to spin as well, while pressure is applied along the axis of rotation, holding the parts together as they cool.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Yeah, I hadn't actually heard of stir welding till now. Was thinking more of spin welding;
Spin welding is a friction welding technique in which the parts to be welded are heated by friction. The heat may be generated by turning on a lathe, drill press, or milling machine, where one part is driven by the chuck, and the other is held stationary with the spinning part driven against it. This is continued until the heat of friction between the parts reaches a sufficient level for the parts to weld. The stationary part is then released to spin as well, while pressure is applied along the axis of rotation, holding the parts together as they cool.
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me either, curious about costs.
 
When I repair aluminum fairings and non structural sheet aluminum, I must think of the best cheapest method to get an acceptable repair that will not cost the owner mega bucks. Unlike what we see in this thread.
It is entirely possible and acceptable to simply sweat a patch over a dent or hole in a fairing. If the material is a heat treated part such as 2024-T3 the aluminum solder melts way under the annealing temps required to change the temper. these solder materials are mostly zinc and antimony and only require a hot air gun to do the job.

http://www.weldguru.com/aluminum-soldering.html
 
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Tom-D said:
me either, curious about costs.
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Depends on what you want to do. Where I work, we spin-weld plastic parts, the equipment was "home made". The part you quoted suggests you already have the tools, so the cost is low. Whether it is an acceptable weld, other than an experimental plane, is another question.
 
Tom-D said:
When I repair aluminum fairings and non structural sheet aluminum, I must think of the best cheapest method to get an acceptable repair that will not cost the owner mega bucks. Unlike what we see in this thread.
It is entirely possible and acceptable to simply sweat a patch over a dent or hole in a fairing. If the material is a heat treated part such as 2024-T3 the aluminum solder melts way under the annealing temps required to change the temper. these solder materials are mostly zink and antimony and only require a hot air gun to do the job.

http://www.weldguru.com/aluminum-soldering.html
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Other than experimental planes, is aluminum solder acceptable? Is it acceptable for a certified plane?

These are the only FAA documents on aluminum soldering I've been able to find. One reference seems to be an excerpt of the other citation. Neither is particularly applicable to aircraft.
https://www.faa.gov/education/students/activities/highschool/media/Anemometer.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/education/educa...ry/media/Elem_Aviation_Science_Activities.pdf

Actually, it seems only one class of aluminum solders can be soldered using a hot-air gun. The high temperature solders melt at a temperature that overlaps the ~775 °F annealing temperature of 2024-T3 (http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA2024T4 ) The solder temperatures were obtained from Tom's link.
 
Tom-D said:
The usage of spot welds in GA in the field is so rare that no one has ever considered it. Remember welding aircraft parts is normally a major repair, requiring a 337 field approval. Even If the FSDO had approved the repair, I don't believe I would return it to service.
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The DC/MD-10 has references in the AMM for welding secondary structure. Many DC/MD-10 have nose cowl weld repairs. They are not major repairs.
 
GlennAB1 said:
The DC/MD-10 has references in the AMM for welding secondary structure. Many DC/MD-10 have nose cowl weld repairs. They are not major repairs.
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When it is authorized in the mm in the MD 10 is a bit different than the Bo, which has no such authorization. I as an A&P can weld any structure that can be accomplished as long As I have the proper tools and equipment to comply with FAR 43-13. Problem becomes the proper equipment. I can't weld structural aluminum because I can't return the heat treatment to original condition, most A&Ps can't
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Other than experimental planes, is aluminum solder acceptable? Is it acceptable for a certified plane?
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In some cases. But it is not considered a structural repair method.
 
Tom-D said:
The major ingredient in most of these solders is Zink. look up the melt point here.

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/zn.htm
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What is your point?
The melt point of Zn is 420 °C The higher temperature solders melt at ~427 °C, the low temperature ones have a bottom range of 150 °C

BTW, the name of the element is spelled "zinc". A zink is a medieval woodwind instrument.
Also spelled that way in post 104
these solder materials are mostly zink and antimony and only require a hot air gun to do the job.
Click to expand...
 
Cap'n Jack said:
What is your point?
The melt point of Zn is 420 °C The higher temperature solders melt at ~427 °C, the low temperature ones have a bottom range of 150 °C

BTW, the name of the element is spelled "zinc". A zink is a medieval woodwind instrument.
Also spelled that way in post 104
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fixed it just for you :)
 
Joshuajayg said:
What is a "certified" weld?
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OMG....it really isn't that big of a deal in many applications but it can get sticky to say the least. I have never tried to get a new weld spec certified but I have used many existing certified weld specs. If I had my druthers I'd never spec a weld again.

Wait until you find yourself making a structural repair and find that the original weld didn't meet the spec. Then you notice that the repair was easier because the weld failed rather than the base material. Do you fix it according to spec or do you fix it so that the weld is the weak point again? I fixed it according to spec but it's a tough call since the failure was non-catastrophic.
 
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